Talk:Albert Einstein/Archive 5

Brain examined vs Cremation
If his body was cremated, according to his wishes, on the same day of his death, how could his brain be analyzed post-mortem as stated in the Early Years chapter? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.2.210.78 (talk &bull; contribs) 17:16, January 5, 2006 (UTC)


 * He was autopsied before he was cremated, apparently, and had specifically outlined to donate his brain to science. --Fastfission 01:26, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

I've Copied
I've copied "He was also the stereotypical "absent-minded professor"; he was often forgetful of everyday items, such as keys, and would focus so intently on solving physics problems that he would often become oblivious to his surroundings. In his later years, his appearance inadvertently created (or reflected) another stereotype of scientist in the process: the researcher with unruly white hair. " into the People speculated to have been autistic article. It is relevant there. Barbara Shack 15:29, 9 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't believe there is any reason to suspect that Einstein was an autist. High-functioning autists may be considered "little professors", but that doesn't mean all eccentric professors are autistic. One of the signals that a person is autistic is that they are "mindblind", that is, unable to infer anything about the intentions of others. Einstein did not display such characteristics, to the best of my knowledge; his views on politics were sensitive and sophisticated, as is pretty notorious. Lucidish 21:33, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
 * The article seems pretty balanced, and appropriately sourced, though, so my worries should take a back seat to that. Lucidish 02:46, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Oh, dear God. Not another one. That makes, what, 634,572,204 people, doesn't it? Please, Lucidish. If you'd like to stereotype people, at least read up on them first. If you read things on high-functioning autism, you probably would be ashamed that people would say things like that. It's like feeling sorry for a blind person, only worse, because

A. They don't remember what it was like before they got it, because they've always had it.

B. It's easier to spot a blind person on sight, whereas you think even worse of autistics because until you learn they have it, you wonder why they're not normal. And

C. People reason that if autistics are like this, then, thusly, if someone's not like this they're not autistic. But what if not all autistics are like this? This also leads to B.

I won't argue that Einstein is autistic, though. I try not to force my opinions on others, unless my opinion is that they're using illogical reasoning.

And for a different look at the subject, see this link. http://isnt.autistics.org/

1337 r0XX0r 20:38, 17 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Well now, JeffK, I would be better equipped to cite sources and defend my comments if I knew what exactly you were complaining about. The purposefully hedged mindblindness reference? The "little professors" reference? The acknowledgement of sourcing in the article? For info on mindblindness, read Uta Frith's "Autism: Explaining the Enigma" and Simon-Baron Cohen's ";Mindblindness". For a reference on the characterization of "little professors", see the classic works of Kanner and Asperger -- that is to say, the persons who discovered the disorder. For info on the sourcing of the article, see the article. Lucidish 20:44, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Sorry about all that. I really got carried away... I hope it didn't offend you. I still stand by my point, but it was a bit too harsh on you, Lucidish. My point was you probably should learn about what they're really like before you generalize about them, but you probably were just citing what you know when you talked about mindblindedness... true, generally it takes them a bit longer to realise things like that, but just because a person's diagnosed with autism doesn't mean they have no idea that other people have their own ideas and opinions. I certainly never had a problem with that. And truth be told, I'm probably taking a very biased stance. But small story short (too late ;-)), I was just angry at the time. People do stupid stuff when they're angry. Oh, and btw... autist? That can't be right... ;-p 1337 r0XX0r 15:22, 19 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Don't sweat it. The thing is, I didn't generalize: it's one of the symptoms not the only symptom. There are other hallmarks, like certain pragmatic language deficits, and routined behaviors, which are just as important in gauging a person on the autistic spectrum. My point was just that mindblindness seemed to be a key criterion, and Einstein didn't seem to have it; this is reason to beleive that he wasn't an autist. Also, I wanted to point out that hindsight evaluations purely on the funny characteristics of professorial types may simply be superficial personality-related stuffs. If he had other characteristics (preferably the sort outlined in DSM4), then that would be reason to discount my worries.
 * None of this means anything about the autistic population at large, or that mindblind autists can't learn to compensate for that problem by learning complicated schemata (and it certainly doesn't mean that they lack instinctual empathy, which is not what's meant by "mindblindness"). It's just one way of trying to figure out the likelihood that a person was or wasn't autistic.
 * "Autist" is the term that Frith used in her book, and I like it a bit better than saying "an autistic", because it just seems aesthetically nicer. Though people in the field probably still use the descriptor "autistic", since "autist" sounds too much like "artist". Lucidish 16:35, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

German-American theoretical physicist
I disagree with the opening line which reads "..[Einstein] was a Jewish theoretical physicist..". The word Jew is used in many ways but generally refers to a follower of Judaism, a child of a Jewish mother, or someone of Jewish descent with a connection to Jewish culture, ethnicity and/or religion; It's improper to refer to Einstein with an ethnic/religious pretext. Traditionally, the opening line refers to one's place/nation of birth, not their cultural or religious background. I'm going to change this to German-American, and leave it up to the rest of the article to debate over his ethnic and religious heritage. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.105.163.3 (talk &bull; contribs) 21:10, January 9, 2006 (UTC)


 * His parents were Jewish as far as I know. Was also educated at a Jewish school, and persecuted for being Jewish. What's improper? Lucidish 04:28, 10 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I am not disputing his Jewish heritage at all. However, traditionally the opening line for an article relating to a person (or persons) outlines their profession (one related to their accomplishment(s)) and his or her place of birth. Discussing one's cultural/religion background should be debated in the body of the article, not the opening line. I.e.: Georges Cziffra (and other figures of distinct heritage) was Gypsy by birth, yet you don't see anyone describing him as a Gypsy first, and a classical pianist second. 22:24, 10 January 2006 (UTC) &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.105.163.3 (talk &bull; contribs) 22:24, January 13, 2006 (UTC)
 * Okie doke, that sounds prudent. Lucidish 17:20, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Merge the children
I added the Mergefroms for Einstein's two sons, Eduard Einstein and Hans Albert Einstein. Neither of them is noteworthy for any reason other than having the name Einstein. Eduard's article even agrees with that: "...Eduard, however, is famous due to his family lineage." If we added a bio for every schizophrenic and hydraulic engineer in Wikipedia, we'd have a real huge (and uninteresting) database.

Comments? &mdash;Wknight94 (talk) 15:04, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep them out of the main article please. Merge them into "family of Albert Einstein" or something if you must. Kappa 15:07, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Seems like everything useful in those articles is already in this one so maybe I'll just Afd those. &mdash;Wknight94 (talk) 15:10, 11 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Of course we wouldn't have them in here if they were just schizophrenics or hydraulic engineers. They are in here because they are related to Einstein. Considering how much attention has been focused on Einstein's family members (the whole Maric thing) I think having short entries on his sons is not problematic in the slightest. Just ignore them, they were doing nobody any harm as they were. --Fastfission 20:09, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

What about his contribution to fridge engineering?
You'll probably think I'm nuts, but there was an article about Einstein's contribution to fridge engineering in Scientific American quite a few years back. I'm surprised this isn't even touched on in the article. The German wikipedia actually mentions it:. - Samsara 16:45, 14 January 2006 (UTC)


 * See Albert Einstein. Lupo 09:00, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Dürrenmatt
Friedrich Dürrenmatt wrote an essay, Albert Einstein, that examines Einstein's interpretation of Spinoza's monotheism. Dürrenmatt also wrote a play, Die Physiker, the main character of which is a genius physicist who has found a formula that could be used to create a terrible weapon. Copenhagen by Michael Frayn is a similar work, although here the characters are not fictional. - Samsara contrib talk 03:50, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

"German-American"?
Why does the article begin by describing Einstein as "German-American"? It's inaccurate, or at least incomplete. If you're going to use such a hyphenate, it should be "German-Swiss-American", or better yet it should be dropped altogether. Einstein's somewhat complex citizenship is explained in the body of the article. It seems the only reason for the hyphenate is somebody wanted to tag Einstein as "American". &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.136.163.98 (talk &bull; contribs) 07:56, January 19, 2006 (UTC)

Spurious(?) quote
This is from Talk:Hanlon's Razor: Please discuss there

- "Albert Einstein also believed in the power of stupidity: 'Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.'" - I believe that this quote is spurious. I have a personal animus against this quote, and this is my chance to do something about it.


 * (1) I don't remember ever seeing this quote before maybe sometime in the 1990s
 * (2) This really doesn't sound like Einstein to me. He was very good-natured in his public pronouncements and didn't go around calling people "stupid". (Heck, he'd been considered "stupid" himself as a child, so I don't think he'd find this very amusing.)

Therefore, I challenge everyone reading this: can anyone find a good cite for this? (Preferably one dating from Einstein's own lifetime?)

Writtenonsand 14:27, 22 January 2006 (UTC)


 * This wasn't in response to the Manhattan project was it? From what I've read of him, he became quite cynical about the human race in general... &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.244.185.98 (talk &bull; contribs) 13:17, February 3, 2006  (UTC)

Württemberg citizenship?
-"he renounced his Württemberg citizenship and became stateless."- Ths is somewhat confusing to the ignorant. Why "Württemberg citizenship" and not "German citizenship"? Could somebody please add a note of explanation about how this worked? Thanks -- Writtenonsand 14:34, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

1931 Unified Field Theory... Gone Missing???
From the International Herald Tribune's "In Our Pages 100, 75 & 50 Years Ago" article, 23 Jan 2005:

1931: Einstein's New Theory

PASADENA, California: The fundamental unity of light, gravity and electromagnetism was proclaimed by Professor Albert Einstein here today [Jan. 22], in a theory which scientists hail as the most revolutionary and the most daring ever propounded in the whole history of science. The theory which Einstein has now made public, after having been at work on it for the last 10 years, is known as the theory of the unified field. According to the generalized conception reached by the great mathematician, all optical, gravitational and electromagnetic phenomena figure as modifications, identical in their essence, of this one field.

Einstein explained that he believes that he has finally reduced all the principal laws of nature, as known to physics, in this one theory. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.81.219.54 (talk &bull; contribs).

Einsteins nationality / citizenship
I noticed there is a lot of dispute about Einstein's nationality. In order to stop the bouncing, removal of nationalities and insertion of nationality that einstein possesed once in his life i have added a small section about the nationalities that einstein used to have during his life. I sincerly hope that this clears up something, but i also hope that people do not simply delete this info (such as User:Max_rspct), (due to hateful feelings against germans?? or the belief that einstein would want to be a german, lets stay to the facts pls). Hanseichbaum 14:16, 24 January 2006 (UTC)


 * In addition, omitting the nationalities in the first sentence may lessen the controversy. Shawnc 13:53, 28 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Personally, I dont feel that it is necessary to dedicate a whole section to his nationality; Is it really that important to know whether or not he was german? If so, I believe that this kind of information would reveal itself to the reader in the intorduction, or the section concerning his early life. Delta&#91;XK] 21:47, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

German Democratic Party: Cite, please
"Einstein was a co-founder of the liberal German Democratic Party"

Could we get a cite on this, please? -- Writtenonsand 14:03, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

American Federation of Teachers: Cite, please
"Einstein was a ... a member of the AFL-CIO-affilated union the American Federation of Teachers."

Could we get a cite on this, please? -- Writtenonsand 14:05, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Wikilinked dates
Every date should not be linked. It's bad style and inapposite to information provided in the article. I removed said links. Please do not revert. green 65.88.65.217 19:59, 12 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Our Manual of Style says that full dates (i.e. April 1, 1900) should be wikilinked, because then the Wiki software can re-adjust it to whatever the date format the user has specified (i.e. 1 April 1900). Only individual years (i.e. 1900) should not be linked, because no formatting occurs. I agree that it's sort of silly to have so many links of this sort but that's the normal convention followed on here.--Fastfission 20:48, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't see any requirement to link dates. In fact, the style rules state that overlinking is undesirable. They give different acceptable (unlinked) formats. If you concur, please revert what you changed. Thanks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_%28dates_and_numbers%29#Avoid_overlinking_dates green 65.88.65.217 21:04, 12 February 2006 (UTC)


 * But right above that it explains about date linking so that date preferences will work. "Editors are not required to link full dates, but most full dates in Wikipedia are linked so that each user's date-formatting preference appears in the text." --Fastfission 21:49, 12 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't wish to pursue this, but if date linking is not required, and is, as you agree, non-informative, from the pov of style they should be eliminated from the article. Have I missed something here? green 65.88.65.217 00:28, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
 * They serve a useful function and do little harm. That's why they are kept. BrokenSegue 03:09, 13 February 2006 (UTC)


 * What's the function? green 64.136.26.226 04:00, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
 * From above, "the Wiki software can re-adjust it [the date] to whatever the date format the user has specified". BrokenSegue 04:07, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Right. Of course. But what does it mean? Have you used it profusely, or at all? What was the value-added? green 64.136.26.226 04:22, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
 * The value added is that the date is formatted in a way that is most understandable to the reader. Truth be told, I don't understand your comment, but whatever, it doesn't matter that much. BrokenSegue 04:32, 13 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Ahhhaaa! It means that if an editor is dumb enough to use a date like 01/02/06, Wiki software will default Jan 2 say, instead of Feb 1, if it is smart enough to know that 06 is not June. But if the editor was that careless, his edits would surely have greater insufficiencies. green 64.136.26.226 04:43, 13 February 2006 (UTC)


 * No, it means that if I prefer to have dates display as '2001-01-15 16:12:34', then I can, but if I prefer the more human-readable '16:12, January 15, 2001', I can do that too. You might notice this preference if you logged in. FireWorks 02:34, 14 February 2006 (UTC)