Talk:Albert Luthuli/Archive 1

Lutuli vs. Luthuli
One question: if a name is commonly and (as is admitted in the first line of the article) more phonetically spelled in a certain way - why is the article not named thus? I think it would make more sense to name the article 'Luthuli', leave out the rather confusing remark about other ways of spelling it in the text and create redirects from all likely other spellings of the name, including 'Lutuli'. Any objections? Kiwiki 14:02, August 10, 2005 (UTC)


 * Mr. Lutuli preferred the spelling "LUTULI," so I guess it's more politically correct. User:Jesus geek


 * I agree with Kiwiki. I'm South African, and I've only ever seen the name spelt "Luthuli". I don't know where in the world it's more commonly spelt without the 'h'.
 * Then again, I've never heard about Mr Lut(h)uli having a preference... I suppose that would settle it.196.7.25.37 14:03, 13 April 2007 (UTC)AmyL


 * I always thought: how did Lut(h)uli spell his name? I now know he spelt it L-u-t-u-l-i and I want to have it spelt that way. I only listen to the source, not the sheep. User:Seak knowlage

According to a "Note about names" at the end of the biography on the South African History Online (SAHO) website: "Luthuli's surname is very often spelled Luthuli, as it is in his autobiography, which was prepared for publication by non-vernacular-speaking friends. But Luthuli himself preferred another spelling and signed his name without an h."

It then goes on to say, "...in order to facilitate internet searches, where the more widespread spelling of ‘Luthuli’ is more likely to be used in a search, the spelling in the text above has not adhered to Luthuli’s preference." (Currently, "Luthuli" gets 28,000 google-hits, and "Lutuli" gets 11,000 hits.)

I think it's worth noting that the explanatory info that somebody stuck in the intro (which I will delete/correct) has got it exactly backwards: the real phonetic pronunciation is reflected in the spelling preferred by Lutuli -- which is no doubt why he preferred that spelling. For some reason, the "th" diphthong came into use at some point in history (probably an authority in southern African linguistics could explain this), and it seems to be thoroughly embedded in South African culture and media, even though it misleads and confuses people. (Case in point, the pronunciation of "Lesotho" (approx. Leh-soo-too) is completely at odds with its spelling.)

So, what name should we go with? I have to admit, I am really torn between the two options -- especially when the SAHO website has decided to go with "Luthuli". But I don't think we should simply ignore the man's own preference; and I think it's also worth noting that the "Lutuli" spelling is used throughout the official ANC website. So in the end, I think Wikipedia has to come down on the side of "Lutuli". Cgingold (talk) 03:43, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
 * 'th' in Nguni languages is not a dipthong, the h indicates an aspirated sound. In the same way ph is not pronounced as an f but as an explosive p. Wayne Jayes (talk) 08:09, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

does one write Luther as Luter? Wikistallion (talk) 10:16, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Potential Copyright Violation
A large amount of text appears to be taken from the bio at the Nobel prize website. I don't have the historical knowledge or sources to substantiate this article myself, but it'd be a shame to see details of the man's life deleted because of this. I'm not sure what the status of that information is, and the copyvio tag looks a bit too menacing, so I'll leave it for now...Warrickball (talk) 21:31, 4 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I saw that someone also did the same thing with a published book, I say just delete it. Thank you for bringing it up. Seak knowlage — Preceding undated comment added 20:53, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Luthuli Methodist?
In the Categories section he is listed as a South African Methodist, and a convert to Methodism, but there doesn't seem to be anything about this in the biography. As far as I am aware he was a Congregationalist for most of his life, and up to the time of his death. SteveH (talk) 05:50, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Requested move 18 August 2020

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: page moved. (non-admin closure)  ~SS49~   {talk}  07:05, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

Albert Lutuli → Albert Luthuli – WP:COMMONNAME. Albert Luthuli was moved to Albert Lutuli (without the h) a couple of years ago, however Albert Luthuli (with the "h") is the most prevalent spelling of his name and also the correct spelling of his name. There is no doubt that Luthuli preferred the spelling "Lutuli," but it's not like he heavily advocated for its use. In his own autobiography "Let My People Go" he uses the spelling Luthuli instead of the "favored" Lutuli. This led me to believe he preferred Lutuli because it was phonetically correct rather than Luthuli which has a silent "h" in the name, which is common in South African languages. I imagine it was important for it to be phonetically correct so it would be easier for foreigners to pronounce and spell the name, as Luthuli was a popular well-travelled man outside of South Africa. Anyways, "Albert Luthuli" has more Google search results, Google scholar results, and Google Ngram results when compared to "Albert Lutuli." Iamawesomeautomatic (talk) 19:41, 18 August 2020 (UTC) —Relisting. Megan Barris   (Lets talk📧)  06:51, 26 August 2020 (UTC)


 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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