Talk:Albert Memorial

Untitled
This article could do with a picture of the memeorial prior to resroration Franny-K (talk) 19:43, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Frieze list
Copied from the transcription made here, which states "Concerning the 169 sculptures on the podium the “Historical Summary” states that these represent" (followed by the list below). This appears to be saying that the list is a direct transcription from the official source mentioned here: "The subjects are listed in the official history." (ref to "N.M. pp. 65–90."), where "N.M." is "The National Memorial to His Royal Highness the Prince Consort, 1873."

I've copied the list below, added spaces after initials, removed final periods, and provided a wikilinked version next to the original. I intend to redo the wikilinks to point to the articles that I think are about the people listed here, and also create redirects as needed. Carcharoth (talk) 10:39, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

South Front Poets and Musicians

 * (1) D. E. F. Auber - D. E. F. Auber
 * (2) E. H. Mehul - E. H. Mehul
 * (3) J. P. Rameau - J. P. Rameau
 * (4) J. B. Lulli - J. B. Lulli
 * (5) A. E. M. Gretry - A. E. M. Gretry
 * (6) Jasquin Des Pres - Jasquin Des Pres
 * (7) G. Rossini - G. Rossini
 * (8) C. Monteverde - C. Monteverde
 * (9) G. Carissimi - G. Carissimi
 * (10) G. P. A. de Palestrina - G. P. A. de Palestrina
 * (11) Guido - Guido
 * (12) St. Ambrose - St. Ambrose
 * (13) P. Corneille - P. Corneille
 * (14) Moliere - Moliere
 * (15) Cervantes - Cervantes
 * (16) Virgil - Virgil
 * (17) Dante - Dante
 * (18) Pythagoras - Pythagoras
 * (19) Homer - Homer
 * (20) G. Chaucer - G. Chaucer
 * (21) W. Shakespeare - W. Shakespeare
 * (22) J. Milton - J. Milton
 * (23) Goethe - Goethe
 * (24) Schiller - Schiller
 * (25) Bach - Bach
 * (26) Gluck - Gluck
 * (27) Handel - Handel
 * (28) Mozart - Mozart
 * (29) Mendelssohn - Mendelssohn
 * (30) Haydn - Haydn
 * (31) Weber - Weber
 * (32) Beethoven - Beethoven
 * (33) T. Tallis - T. Tallis
 * (34) O. Gibbons - O. Gibbons
 * (35) H. Lawes - H. Lawes
 * (36) H. Purcell - H. Purcell
 * (37) T. A. Arne - T. A. Arne
 * (38) W. Boyce - W. Boyce
 * (39) Sir H. R. Bishop - Sir H. R. Bishop

East Front Painters

 * (1) J. M. W. Turner - J. M. W. Turner
 * (2) Sir. D. Wilkie - David Wilkie (artist)
 * (3) S. J. Reynolds - S. J. Reynolds
 * (4) T. Gainsborough - T. Gainsborough
 * (5) W. Hogarth - W. Hogarth
 * (6) Rembrandt - Rembrandt
 * (7) Rubens - Rubens
 * (8) Holbein - Holbein
 * (9) Durer - Durer
 * (10) H. and J. Van Eyck - H. Van Eyck
 * (10a) H. and J. Van Eyck - J. Van Eyck
 * (11) S. Lockner - S. Lockner
 * (12) Cimabue - Cimabue
 * (13) Orcagna - Orcagna
 * (14) Giotto - Giotto
 * (15) Fra Angelico - Fra Angelico
 * (16) Ghirlandajo - Ghirlandajo
 * (17) Masaccio - Masaccio
 * (18) L. Da Vinci - L. Da Vinci
 * (19) Raphael - Raphael
 * (20) M. Angelo - M. Angelo
 * (21) Bellini - Bellini
 * (22) Titian - Titian
 * (23) Mantegna - Mantegna
 * (24) P. Veronese - P. Veronese
 * (25) Tintoretto - Tintoretto
 * (26) Coreggio - Coreggio
 * (27) A. Caracci - A. Caracci
 * (28) L. Carraci - L. Carraci
 * (29) Velasquez - Velasquez
 * (30) Murillo - Murillo
 * (31) Poussin - Poussin
 * (32) Claude - Claude
 * (33) J. L. David - J. L. David
 * (34) Gerard - Gerard
 * (35) Gerecault - Gerecault
 * (36) Delacroix - Delacroix
 * (37) Vernet - Vernet
 * (38) Delaroche - Delaroche
 * (39) Ingres - Ingres
 * (40) Decamps - Decamps

North Front Architects

 * (1) Pugin - Pugin
 * (2) Scott - Scott
 * (3) Cockerell - Cockerell
 * (4) Barry - Barry
 * (5) Chambers - Chambers
 * (6) Vanbrugh - Vanbrugh
 * (7) Wren - Wren
 * (8) Inigo Jones - Inigo Jones
 * (9) Mansart - Mansart
 * (10) Thorpe - Thorpe
 * (11) Palladio - Palladio
 * (12) Vignola - Vignola
 * (13) Delorme - Delorme
 * (14) Sansovino - Sansovino
 * (15) San Gallo - San Gallo
 * (16) Peruzzi - Peruzzi
 * (17) Bramante - Bramante
 * (18) William of Wykeham - William of Wykeham
 * (19) Alberti - Alberti
 * (20) Brunelleschi - Brunelleschi
 * (21) Giotto - Giotto
 * (22) Arndfo Di Lapo - Arndfo Di Lapo (sp.) Arnolfo di Lapo
 * (23) Ermin Van Steinbach - Ermin Van Steinbach (sp.) - Erwin von Steinbach
 * (24) Johan de Chelles - Johan de Chelles (future redirect) - Jean de Chelles
 * (25) R. de Courcy - R. de Courcy
 * (26) William of Sens - William of Sens
 * (27) William the Englishman - William the Englishman
 * (28) Abbe Suger - Abbe Suger
 * (29) Anthemius - Anthemius
 * (30) Appollodonus - Appollodonus (sp.) Apollodorus
 * (31) Hermodoraus - Hermodoraus (sp.) Hermodorus (no article yet)
 * (32) Callimchus - Callimchus (sp.) - Callimachus
 * (33) Libon - Libon
 * (34) Callicrates - Callicrates
 * (35) Ictinus - Ictinus
 * (36) Mnesicles - Mnesicles
 * (37) Chersiphron - Chersiphron
 * (38) Metagenes - Metagenes
 * (39) Rhoscus - Rhoscus (sp. - Rhoecus
 * (40) Theodorus - Theodorus
 * (41) Hiram - Hiram
 * (42) Bezaleel - Bezaleel
 * (43) Sennacherib - Sennacherib
 * (44) Nitocris - Nitocris
 * (45) Cheops - Cheops

West Front Sculptors

 * (1) Egyptian - Egyptian
 * (2) Assyrian - Assyrian
 * (3) R. Loecus - R. Loecus (sp.) - Rhoecus
 * (4) Dibutades - Dibutades
 * (5) Bupalus - Bupalus
 * (6) Phidias - Phidias
 * (7) Scopas - Scopas
 * (8) Bryaxis - Bryaxis
 * (9) Leochanes - Leochanes (sp.) - Leochares
 * (10) Praxiteles - Praxiteles
 * (11) Lysippus - Lysippus
 * (12) Chanes - Chanes (sp.) - Chares
 * (13) Giuliano de Ravenna - Giuliano de Ravenna (not found yet)
 * (14) Niccola Pisano - Niccola Pisano
 * (15) Ghiberti - Ghiberti
 * (16) Luca Deklla Robbia - Luca Deklla Robbia (sp.) - Luca della Robbia
 * (17) W. Tonel - W. Tonel (sp.) - William Torel
 * (18) William of Ireland - William of Ireland (no article yet)
 * (19) Verrocchio - Verrocchio
 * (20) Donatello - Donatello
 * (21) Michael Angelo - Michael Angelo
 * (22) Torrigiano - Torrigiano
 * (23) Gian. Di Balogna - Gian. Di Balogna (sp.) - Giovanni Da Bologna
 * (24) Vischer - Vischer
 * (25) Bandinelli - Bandinelli
 * (26) Cellini - Cellini
 * (27) Baccio D'agnelo - Baccio D'agnelo (sp.) - Baccio D'Agnolo
 * (28) Gaujon - Gaujon (sp.) - Goujon
 * (29) Palisay - Palisay (sp.) - Palissy
 * (30) Bontemps - Bontemps (future redirect) - Pierre Bontemps
 * (31) Pilon - Pilon
 * (32) Cano - Cano
 * (33) Stone - Stone
 * (34) Bernini - Bernini
 * (35) Cibber - Cibber
 * (36) Puget - Puget
 * (37) Gibbons - Gibbons
 * (38) F. Bird - F. Bird
 * (39) Bushnell - Bushnell
 * (40) Roubiliac - Roubiliac
 * (41) Canova - Canova
 * (42) Flaxman - Flaxman
 * (43) David D'Angers - David D'Angers
 * (44) Thorvaldsen - Thorvaldsen

The above will be used as the working draft for what will appear in the article. Corrections and comments welcomed. Carcharoth (talk) 10:39, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Useful list
Lives of the Most Excellent Painters, Sculptors, and Architects. Could be useful. Carcharoth (talk) 14:57, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Another source
"The records indicate comparatively little discussion of the subject-matter of Scott's 'frieze' of reliefs. Its affinity to Delaroche's Hémicycle des Beaux Arts in the École des Beaux Arts was avowed by Scott himself." - anyone know what "Delaroche's Hémicycle des Beaux Arts in the École des Beaux Arts" is? Ah, Hippolyte Delaroche is the one. And Hippolyte Delaroche is helpful in explaining this. Carcharoth (talk) 17:33, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Tidbits of information
Found by persuing "what links here": The information from those articles is of varying relevance to this article. Carcharoth (talk) 22:57, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Richard Coad
 * Alexander Milne Calder
 * Clayton and Bell
 * Salviati (glassmakers)
 * Robert Moreland
 * Alyson Hunter

Redlinks and disambiguation pages
The following are those from the frieze that are still redlinks or disambiguation pages with no article or are otherwise uncertain. Last four are disambiguation pages. Use Google to find their first names. Carcharoth (talk) 06:33, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Jean de Chelles - see fr:Jean de Chelles and 'what links here'
 * Richard de Courcy (wrong date as the architects are in chronological order) - ASK AT REF DESK (could be Robert de Courcy, founded a Benedictine nunnery in Somerset - see Cannington, Somerset)
 * Hermodorus of Salamis - see Temple of Jupiter Stator
 * Hiram Abiff (need separate article on the ancient architect - see also Hiram I)
 * Sennacherib, Nitocris and Cheops need explicating as to their architectural achievements. Sennacherib and Cheops are fairly clear, but Nitocris seems to be here because at one time it was thought that she built the "third pyramid at Giza", but now that is attributed by "modern historians" to Menkaura. Find out what people thought at the time the Albert Memorial was being built. ASK AT REF DESK (still drawing a blank here)
 * Giuliano de Ravenna - ASK AT REF DESK (possibly the "Giuliano Argentario" or Iulianus Argentarius, mentioned at Basilica of San Vitale and at Basilica of Sant'Apollinare in Classe)
 * W. Tonel - ASK AT REF DESK (spelling mistake - should be William Torel - see 'what links here')
 * William of Ireland - see Northampton Eleanor cross
 * Pierre Bontemps - see fr:Pierre Bontemps and 'what links here'
 * ✅ Stone - Nicholas Stone
 * ✅ Puget - Pierre Paul Puget
 * ✅ Gibbons - Grinling Gibbons
 * Bushnell - John Bushnell - no article yet, see 'what links here'
 * Giuliano di Ravenna: What do you feel about Giuliano Argentario, who is variously described as having financed or designed churches around Ravenna, such as San Vitale(547 AD) and San Apollinare in Classe (549 AD) SaundersW (talk) 21:19, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Looks very promising. Unfortunately, I can't find any confirmation. Someone somewhere should know, though. I just have to dig around and ask people. I suspect the answer is not yet on the internet. Carcharoth (talk) 06:56, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
 * IF he is the right one, and IF the attribution of the image is correct, there is a portrait of him here right behind Justinian's shoulder. SaundersW (talk) 15:53, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Some more links. Basilica of Sant'Apollinare in Classe, Basilica of San Vitale, and another form of his name is Iulianus Argentarius (just a redirect, unfortunately). The statue of him (if it is him) can be seen here (there is enough detail to zoom in). Carcharoth (talk) 16:10, 14 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I've gone through all the piped links and improved them. The names in the lists in the article should accurately transcribe the inscriptions, e.g. GUIDO rather than interpret them. The interpretation of the name is embodied in the piped link. --Wetman (talk) 18:47, 14 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Absolutely. I'll fix that now. The pictures were not available when the list was started. The first source I used for the list was here, and only covered the work of Armstead (the poets, musicians and painters). The second source I found was here, and that gave the entire list. That source is a wiki people use to record stuff from public archives, so it is not technically a reliable source, but if you trust that the people got that list from the official book about the memorial (from 1873: The National Memorial to His Royal Highness the Prince Consort), then that suffices until someone can get hold of a copy of the book and scan it in to wikisource. The third source, is to go and photograph the frieze itself and transcribe the inscriptions. As you (Wetman) say, that is the one of the ultimate sources if others are lost or no longer reliable. I'm now going to go through each of the four photographs in the frieze section and do a transcription and correct order for the sculptures. Carcharoth (talk) 19:14, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Just as an aside - the R. Courcy is an architect and not at all the Richard de Courcy linked here. I've fixed the redlink. Ealdgyth - Talk 00:58, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

New image(s)
I visited the Albert Memorial yesterday and took plenty of photos (more detailed images of the freises as well as a couple of the whole monument itself. I do like the old one though so I'm not sure if they are better than the existing one. Just different. I'll upload them today and let you decide. Diliff  | (Talk)   (Contribs) 12:02, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Manchester
This "Short Notice" in The Burlington Magazine (I don't have access to it—‌yet—‌but anyone with JSTOR from the Wikipedia Library can probably get it) appears to be about the relation between the London and Manchester Albert Memorials:

It could be useful for a reference. Ham (talk) 16:50, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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Statue of Albert
The section on the statue includes the following sentence:

"Albert is shown looking south, towards the Royal Albert Hall from which the architectural form of the memorial as a whole should not be considered as being intentionally isolated, it having a particular connection as a result of the location, relating to the 'World's Fair' in which the Prince was directly involved and as shown in the contemporary maps of the Ordnance Survey, including in particular the still continuing element known as the 'Battle of the Scales' (metric and imperialist scales), there being a further statue of the Prince at the south side of the Royal Albert Hall."

This is unclear. Could someone who understands it please rewrite it? I would love to know what it means! Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.33.12.65 (talk) 13:15, 1 February 2019 (UTC)