Talk:Alberto João Jardim

Untitled
I tried to do a honest and unbiased edition of the article but was called a vandalist. Thanks
 * This article is extremely biased in tone against AJJ. I don't care for the man either but this really needs a clean up.

I too agree that it is extremely biased. One must not forget that he was responsible for getting extra funds from the EU for the islands! His contribution to the Madeiran economy was and is priceless and he is not a far-right populist although I must agree that his comments are not the most approriate at times. However you must not forget that he has been DEMOCRATICALLY elected!

It simply not true that he was a FLAMA activist and the last paragraf about a suposed law against manifestations (that does not exist) is nonesense. And I dont see the point in mentioning in a article of this kind or nature the vissitudes of his academic years.

I propose this text in to consideration:

Alberto João Cardoso Gonçalves Jardim (b. Funchal, February 4, 1943) is the president of the regional government of Madeira, and co-founder of the Madeirense branch of social democrat party PSD. known initially as PPD.

Closely supported by Francisco Santana, a Catholic bishop, he oposed the political control of the mainland nad Madeira, by the comunist in the period known as the "hot summer" ("verão quente"). In the aftermath he set out to become Madeira's elected governor, and in March 1978 he became the elected president of the island's regional government, and since then won all the elections held, always scoring high margins of votes, keeping that function throughout the years, to the current date. In 2005 a national law was passed that imposes limits in political mandates, that is said to have him in mind, so he is not expected to be re-elected by 2012, to the delight of some of his more fierce oposers and disbelief of his supporters.

As a consequence of his long-running function, Jardim has garnered a lot of detractors and fierce critics, with claims that his rule in Madeira is of an almost stalinist nature. He has also made very public, fiery remarks about other politicians, which have led to both some amount of disrespect and some formal accusations.

Madeira's leader as, however, a lot of supporters, particularly in Madeira, who view him as a responsible intelligent man (despite his bold harsh persona) who is helping the island flourish economically and is greatly responsible for its development.

I Put this in consideration

dont know my IP, maybe Il sign in some day.

Bias, NPOV tag

 * This article is extremely biased in tone against AJJ. I don't care for the man either but this really needs a clean up. I'd also like to see some references about these statements:

"and disrespected several Republic Presidents, he has the privilege of politic immunity"

"and at the end Madeira Government paid the settlements, costing thousand of Euros to the people of Madeira islands"

this one is an obvious fabrication: "Jardim gratuated in Law from the University of Coimbra in 1973, with one of the lowest ratings ever" - tens if not hundreds of students graduate Law in Coimbra with a 10 grade every year. Serodio 6 July 2005 23:10 (UTC)

Although he is highly contraversial, he has done so much more good than bad.


 * To himself and his cronies, he certainly has done much good. To the Continental taxpayers, I've my doubts. --Explendido Rocha 09:52, 23 July 2005 (UTC)


 * "He's done so much more good than bad" - you always hear this kind of response from madeirenses but they can never ever give an example of what this "so much more good" is. Meanwhile Madeira remains the poorest region of Europe. Ah ah. Serodio 16:02, 26 July 2005 (UTC)


 * He has done so much more good. You can't compare the social policies on the island to the ones on the mainland. Council houses are so much better here, every municipality on the island has a health care centre (this does not occur on the mainland either), he started the "Uma família, um computador" programme which gives financial support so that each and every family can have a computer at home. It doesn't end here, this whole article is simply propaganda! I find it appauling that wikipedia can have something like this up. For god's sake, he's even been one of the vicepresidents of the EPP! tobs88

Article tidied up, closer to unbiased standards
I've done my best to tidy up the article's content and style, and have put most of the stuff on his supposed incorrect behaviour into a separate section, for "Controversy", with specific examples present in the media, which, obviously enough, any of you are free to expand upon (I think it'd be healthy for the sake of picturing his public persona to round up some more of what makes the man so apparently unlikable). I think this might bring it closer to the NPOV standard...? Or is there something yet to be straightened out? (I hope it comes down to a minor quirk, by now, as I think I reasonably cleaned the thing up...) Zeppocity 12:53, 12 August 2005


 * Well done Zeppocity, NPoV tag not needed anymore. I'd still like to see some references to the Regional Government paying for the lawsuit settlements though. Serodio 21:47, 14 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Thanks, and most importantly, good to know it's closer to the standards... as for back up on some of the claims, I'm afraid I don't have the sources myself, and don't quite know how to start seeking them out (or rather, am a tad too busy right now). I might give it a shot soon enough though, if it doesn't get properly filled out in the meantime... Zeppocity 22:34, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

Someone (unregistered editor) erased a large part of the text with grounds of, again, NPOV material. I understand this to an extent, since the claims have yet to be confirmed, but I've reintroduced a section in the main text as to the divisive nature of Jardim's rule. I am perfectly aware of Wikipedia's NPVO aims, obviously enough, but the simple fact is that a large part of the Portuguese people (including right-wing citizens which would, theoretically, regard him as at least a fellow politician) see Jardim as, to put it more lightly here in the talk page, and admitedly mpre subjectively, a ridiculously flamboyant, unpolite and agressive character. This is not me trying to speak for a country; this is me expressing what is a pratically majoritary (is this word correct? pardon if not) view on a character that has stirred people quite a bit. Hence me introducing, again, remarks on his supposed fascist, and xenophobic nature according to opposers, along with the positive view occasionally expressed on his work as a governor. I know I'm writing too much here, and maybe should leave it as it is, but the article's current form still needs work on it, the way I see it, and I'm still trying to see what I can do to improve it, hence the ramblyness. Pardon. Zeppocity 21:29, 17 August 2005 (UTC)


 * You should have reverted it to the previous version, it was fine then in regards of NPoV. The anon was simply rude to erase the text without providing an explanation on why he thought it was biased. The new version says that negative reaction to AJJ is "mostly in the mainland's leftist factions" which hints this happens because of ideology, which is not true. Serodio 02:29, 18 August 2005 (U


 * I don't know. I just figured I'd aim for a compromise, but taking in account that the editor hasn't really fully explained his erasal of a significant portion of the text, I've gone ahead and, as you suggested, reverted it to what it was. And yes, I get what you say about the inaccuracy of that statement, but aiming for the perfect balance made me end up with that. Again, this is an article that I reckon needs work on, and a lot of source checking. The net isn't helping me much, so I'm thinking of starting to maybe dig up some actual articles on Jardim if possible, as I think these claims could, indeed, do with a proper justification, and in that the deletor was correct. So, I'll be trying to check up on the info here, as and when possible. Zeppocity 02:56, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071203095341/http://www.eu-direct.info/fonds/map/portugal/factsheets/pdf/fact_pt30_en.pdf to http://www.eu-direct.info/fonds/map/portugal/factsheets/pdf/fact_pt30_en.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120609111314/http://www.dn.pt/inicio/portugal/interior.aspx?content_id=1993270&seccao=Madeira to http://www.dn.pt/inicio/portugal/interior.aspx?content_id=1993270&seccao=Madeira
 * Added tag to http://moneywatch.bnet.com/investing/news/island-spending-increases-portuguese-debt-load/6298803/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090510034817/http://ultimahora.publico.clix.pt/noticia.aspx?id=1378261 to http://ultimahora.publico.clix.pt/noticia.aspx?id=1378261

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