Talk:Alcohol flush reaction/Archive 1

Pepcid
Pepcid AC??

Has there been any real verification that Pepcid works?
 * It's anecodotal by nature, why is a citation needed? I agree that we shouldn't let "anecdotal evidence suggests.." run awry, but in this case it's certianly warranted. As a college student living with people of East Asian descent, I can support the fact that there is ample anecdotal evidence to support the claim. Is it likely that there is (will ever be?) a formal study thereof? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mpeg4codec (talk • contribs) 05:19, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

problem sentence
"People affected by flushing may be inebriated more quickly than others, but there are other cases where the side effects prevent people with alchohol flush reaction have not been necessarily intolerant of alchohol but just seem to have an external indicator of drunkness."
 * I tried editing this only to find out that I have little idea what it's talking about. So I put it here, because if there is an important concept that I've mistakenly removed, you're welcome to clarify and re-insert the sentence. --Lux 06:09, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

proposed merge
By all means, go ahead. I searched for it, but didn't find it, probably because I included the word "disease", which I've added to the also known as so people can find it more easily if they are more familiar with the term, as I was. --Lux 06:19, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, no discussion is necessary. Since they refer to the same disease, a simple redirect, after the consequent merge, will work. I will do that now. Hold on. --Lux 07:07, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Disulf

 * In fact, disulfiram, also known as Antabuse, is used to treat alcoholism

this statement doesn't really have a sensible tone when "disulfiram" is mentioned for the first time in the article
 * Sensible tone?--Lux 02:00, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
 * In fact, disulfiram, also known as Antabuse, is used to treat alcoholism
 * The sentence above does not indicate, in any way, how disulfiram relates to anything in the article. The rest of the paragraph also does not adequately prove that disulfiram produces a flush reaction chemically identical to the article's subject.  It's POV speculation and original research by the contributor of that section.
 * Antabuse is not "a leading treatment for alcoholism" at least in the US and the references give do not support such a claim. The drug is tangentally related as its site of action is the same enzyme that is responsible for the reaction the article is about.  151.112.57.22 21:16, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

histamines
probably why h2 blockers work... decreasing histamine release locally at the stomach and systematically http://www.parkinson.org/site/pp.aspx?c=9dJFJLPwB&b=100073&printmode=1
 * Facial Flushing and Drugs
 * Certain drugs can cause the sudden or gradual appearance of a red, burning face. Any drug that releases histamine, vasoactive peptide (substance P), or prostaglandin can cause facial flushing. Examples of these types of drugs are:
 * Nitroglycerin
 * Nifedipine
 * Niacin
 * Vancomycin
 * Calcitonin
 * Ethanol
 * Monosodium Glutamate (MSG)
 * Disulfiram (Antabuse)
 * Corticotrophin-releasing Hormone Twobrain 17:14, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
 * the problem with that logic is that these antihistamines, the H2 blockers, don't reduce the levels of histamines in the blood, they just stop the histamine from reaching and activating the H2 receptor, by definition. Dawsean (talk) 21:36, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

link 4 is busted
=D 17:20, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Asian??
The second source attached to this article implicates only Chinise, Korean, and Japanese people. Shouldn't this be mentioned somewhere?

Why asians?
The explanation part is only chemical... The interesting thing to explain about asian flush is why mainly people from sertain parts of asia are affected. A cultural explanaition would be much more interesting, if there are any theories available.

I believe that the description of Asian flush as a genetic mutation alludes to it being genetically inherited --68.144.245.37 21:04, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
 * back in teh day... people used to ferment grains/fruits (sugars) to make water safe to drink (increasing alcohol contents kills off the fermenting yeast and other organisms (bacteria, parasites, other fungi)


 * in asia/china instead of fermenting they relied more on boiling thier water...


 * thats what ive read --Twobrain 16:40, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * That argument was in a very sloppy article in one of the NYTimes blogs, maybe where you saw it. If you read through to the comments, they correct most of the author's faulty assumptions and lazy reasoning, though. -LlywelynII (talk) 18:10, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Non-Asian??
Myself, my mother and a good part of her family all experience this, though as far as I know they are entirely European. Is this a different condition or does this mutation occur in other ethnic groups?
 * I understand that it also affects people of Jewish descent. Is it possible that you're European jew? Ttchiem 06:23, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
 * i am also affected by this, none of my family are, just me!!!! i am half greek though? i dont get it...at all! im not asian just half european?
 * explain?
 * Russians and Ukrainians also have this condition. Their genes came from the Mongolian conquests.

I think this just hit me for the first time today... I'm a non-Jewish Caucasian, and most of my ancestors came from Germanic countries and the British Isles. After three beers tonight, my face got really red, (except right around the eyes, where I suppose there are fewer capillaries), and I had red blotches on my neck and chest. I could also feel my carotid artery pulsing and my sinuses felt "stuffed." I actually had to take a few sprays of Afrin to relieve the congestion. I only hit upon this page once I recalled some of my ethnic-Asian college buddies would turn beet red after only a few drinks.

Weird, a couple of months ago I had developed a week-long episode of hives after a night of drinking and I feared I had developed an allergic reaction to alcohol. Maybe it's coming back?
 * Naturally people of any ethnic group may have the mutation but it is much more common in Asian populations. If there are other groups that are commonly affected find a source as people posting their reactions is clearly anecdotal.  Also, as far as I know it is not possible to have an allergic reactions to EtOH but you may suffer from symptoms that resemble allergies from drinking.


 * Just wanted to ring in with something I've heard -- this condition can also tend to affect people of Native American ancestry. Which might make sense if they crossed the Bering Strait thousands of years ago from Asian countries, but as far as I understand the vast majority came over from Siberia/modern-day Russia.  Purely anecdotally, I have Native American (Apache/Comanche) blood in me and I definitely suffer from this.  To the point that if I don't slowly sip my alcoholic drink(s), I get violently ill over the course of the next 24 - 48 hours. 68.93.140.29 (talk) 05:24, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

I am of English and German descent. Although not an alcoholic himself, my maternal grandfather's Irish family had a long history of alcoholism. I can't drink more than a few sips of alcohol without getting the flushing reaction; a half a glass of wine or beer will make me pass out. It's a highly effective defense against alcoholism. I am the only one in my immediate family with it.71.194.218.7 (talk) 21:47, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Test to see if gene is present?
Is there a way of testing whether to see if this gene is present? I mean, people talk about having this reaction at certain times in their lives, and not at others, with all this talk nowadays of "genetic testing" have scientists devised a way to determine whether or not this "abnormality" is present in someone? Critic9328 17:39, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

needs clarity
so is it due to either a mutation in ADH or AcetaldehydeDH? If so, these two explanations shoudl be separated better for clarity —Preceding unsigned comment added by Findingdan (talk • contribs) 20:47, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Anime
So that explains why people turn red when they're drunk in anime then

Yes. 71.170.58.183 (talk) 20:03, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

ranitidine or famotidine (such as Zantac or Pepcid AC) multiply the effects of alcohol, and not in a good way.
Commode hugging and passing out (and worse) can occur. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.167.95.157 (talk) 23:13, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Please keep the health warning about drinking and cancer highlighted - It can save lives
People need to know this information. Thanks kindly. DocBaker (talk) 04:05, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Problem article in general
While the issue is certainly real, and relates to the generally lower activity of alcohol dehydrogenase in those of Asian descent, the article kind of skims over the explanation. It gives a great description of ADH and ALDH, then proceeds to announce, "The result is the accumulation of acetaldehyde."

The result of what?

Needs better summary
The problem is that this article doesn't reflect what is known about Asian Flushing Syndrome. Nice genetic studies have been performed and this article doesn't reflect this. We know that there are 2 important enzymes in the the breakdown of alcohol: Alcohol dehydrogenase and Acetalaldehyde dehydrogenase. A large percentage of asians (varies by specific ethnicity) have a polymorphism (ie variant) in first enzyme, Alcohol dehydrogenase that makes the enzyme much more active in breaking down alcohol. Some asians also have a similarly active second enzyme, acetalaldehyde dehydrogenase. These people develop few symptoms from alcohol consumption. Some asians have the hyperactive first enzyme, but a normal active second enzyme. These people effectively shunt alcohol to acetaldehyde, which leads to asian flush. Finally, there is a small group of asians that have defective alcohol breakdown enzymes. These people become very ill with any alcohol intake, because they can't process alcohol.

It would be nice to have an expert express all of this in the article. Even the following blurb from the hang over page more adequately reflects what is known. (Dschen5 (talk) 18:00, 20 November 2011 (UTC)dschen5) "Most people of East Asian descent have a mutation in their alcohol dehydrogenase gene that makes this enzyme unusually effective at converting ethanol to acetaldehyde, and about half of such people also have a form of acetaldehyde dehydrogenase that is less effective at converting acetaldehyde to acetic acid.[13] This combination causes them to suffer from alcohol flush reaction, in which acetaldehyde accumulates after drinking, leading to immediate and severe hangover symptoms. These people are therefore less likely to become alcoholics.[14][15]"

64.80.108.52 (talk) 20:41, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Asian flush also caused by increased activity of some enzyme variants of the Alcohol Dehydrogenase (ADH) or both ADH and ALDH2 variants working synergistically
The explanation given in this article, while essentially correct is incomplete. Some alleles of the gene encoding for the first enzyme in the alcohol metabolic pathway (ADH) can also lead to cumulation of acetaldehyde and cause the flush reaction. This is an extract of a recent scientific article:


 * The metabolism of alcohol can significantly influence human drinking behaviors and the development of alcoholism (also called “alcohol dependence” [MIM %103780]), alcohol use disorder, and other alcohol-induced organ damage.1 Most ethanol digestion occurs through a two-step oxidation: alcohol to acetaldehyde and acetaldehyde to acetate. These steps are catalyzed mainly by alcohol dehydrogenase and acetaldehyde dehydrogenase 2, respectively. Various geographic regions have different frequencies for the genetic polymorphisms in the genes (ADH1B [MIM %103720], ADH1C [MIM %103730], and ALDH2 [MIM %100650]) for the primary enzymes.2–6


 * The protective effect against alcoholism of the ADH1B*47His (previously named “ADH2*2”) allele in East Asian populations is one of the most studied and confirmed associations of a genetic polymorphism and a complex behavior.16 In fact, three functional polymorphisms at class I ADH genes—ADH1B Arg47His and ADH1C Arg271Gln and Ile349Val—are in strong linkage disequilibrium (LD),17 and the variants ADH1B*47His and ADH1C*271Gln&349Val (previously named “ADH3*2”) produce enzymes with higher Vmax enzyme activity for alcohol oxidation. The haplotype with these three variants shows higher frequency in nonalcoholics than in alcoholics in many East Asian populations, including Han Chinese,4,7,17,18 Japanese,19,20 and Koreans,10 making it difficult to attribute the effect to any single site. In addition, the evidence that supports the protective role of ADH1B*47His is not limited to East Asian populations; it has been extended to European,21 Jewish,22 and European Australian23 populations, in which it is much less frequent than in East Asian populations. The observed protective effect of the ADH1C*349Ile allele is attributable to its strong LD with the ADH1B*47His allele in East Asian populations9,17 but appears to have an association with alcoholism in other populations in the absence of the ADH1B*47His allele.24–26


 * Reference: Han et al. Evidence of positive selection on a class I ADH locus. American Journal of Human Genetics (2007) vol. 80 (3) pp. 441-56
 * Link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1821113/?tool=pubmed
 * Heathmoor (talk) 03:40, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Is it this unknown?
The article implies the dynamics behind alcohol flush are poorly understood. I find that hard to believe when a significant portion of the variation appears to be recessive, and we've likewise pinned down the alleles for it. Why act like this condition is so little examined? Mannoro (talk) 04:02, 20 August 2010 (UTC)