Talk:Alcoholism/Archive 9

Alcohol abuse disorders in Alaska: Potential Solutions
In the year 2018, Mayor of Anchorage, Ethan Berkowitz, proposed an additional tax on all alcohol sales to curb the purchase of alcohol, in pursuit of a healthier city (Kelly, 2018). However, research conducted by Miller (2013) in Australia, a location demographically and geographically similar to Alaska, found that people were likely to stop purchasing alcohol when the price per standard surpassed 14 AUDs. While research shows that with the rise in price will result in the lowering of the demand for alcohol, the same research from Miller (2013) found that people were more likely to substitute other hard drugs for alcohol when it became too expensive and less attainable. The chance that this tax could push the population to start using hard drugs is unacceptable.

Alternatively, the city of Anchorage could put a larger focus on the identifying of specific symptoms in its population and utilize programs such as Mutual Health Groups (MHGs) and Mental Health First Aide in order to overcome the alcoholism issue. These options are more valid than the retail tax because research shows that people who participate in a MHG are less likely to relapse and fall back into Alcohol Abuse (Tracy & Wallace, 2016). Showing the MHGs do not create additional problems, unlike the taxation.

Csustudent1994 (talk) 04:02, 26 July 2019 (UTC)Csustudent1994


 * When you say Miller (2013), I presume you mean, and when you say Terry & Wallace 2016, I presume you mean . I should look over these papers; on the point of mutual aid groups, there is a lot of research on 12-step mutual aid groups, and they do greatly benefit a subset of alcoholics who “click” with the groups (75% short term success among regular meeting attenders as per Alcoholics Anonymous own mid-1950s observations and , and 67% success 16 years later as per ) which can not be attributed to self-selection (see ).  There are no known mutual aid group more effective than the 12-step ones (actually, there is no treatment more effective over the long term than 12-step treatment.  See, for example ), but mental health first aid looks to be very promising.  Without knowing any peer-reviewed research on the matter off of the top of my head, I can tell you that the empathy and compassion that mental health first aid teaches people is very similar to the empathy and compassion the 12 steps teaches its adherents to have. Defendingaa (talk) 13:45, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
 * In terms of whether mutual aid groups is more effective than taxation, to take one paper which says increased taxation results in more drug abuse and another paper which says mental health first aid groups help, and to conclude we should be doing more mental health first aid and less taxation would be original research, as per WP:SYNTH. We need sources, ideally peer reviewed scientific studies, which makes this conclusion.  I personally think that perhaps we should tax alcohol more and spend the money on mental health first aid, but I don’t know of a paper supporting that notion. Defendingaa (talk) 13:57, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

Social costs
User:Literaturegeek, I don't think that the "social costs" thing is actually meant to be about what economists call social costs, since that sentence begins with the words "Beyond the financial costs". I think it's meant to say that alcoholism results in damage to relationships with friends and family. This also seems to be the main point of the cited source, which appears to be a memoir.

But if you want to keep FSD listed as a non-financial "social cost", then I think the sentence should be expanded to explain some of the "emotional burden to family and society in general to look after" these innocent victims of someone else's alcohol use. But I would like you to consider whether that's actually the point being made in this sentence, and whether, upon reflection, that is a point that you really want to be making. I can't myself think of a way to say that without making it sound like we are blaming disabled people for being disabled. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:13, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Okay, are you suggesting that I expand based on the CDC source or book source (I cannot access the book source...)? Personally I think the term feotal clearly places the blame 100% away from the innocent victim and firmly on the doorstep of alcohol use by the mother, so I do not think we are blaming the disabled person for being disabled. But perhaps you feel that discussing the burden on family and society could be offensive to this disabled group, but we shouldn’t hide facts, especially as those facts of the burden would discourage some more women from drinking while pregnant, etc.-- Literaturegeek |  T@1k?  22:07, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

Harm-reduction and Moderation Management
Does anyone have thoughts on the most recent conversations in Talk:Moderation Management? There's some concern about it's neutrality and other articles on alcoholism harm-reduction in Wikipedia. - Scarpy (talk) 21:51, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

Consider Changing the Name of the Article
I know I'm not part of 'the Wikipedia Club' or whatever it's called, and I expect whatever edits I make to be reversed with a hand slap, so I wouldn't dare trying doing something so drastic to the article as a name change, but seriously, if the modern thinking is that Alcoholism is a depreciated term or an obsolete medical term, as is suggested in the article, then might it be more correct or appropriate for the article to be titled "Alcohol Abuse Syndrome" with searches for Alcoholism redirecting to the new title and with a clearer explaination about how 'alcoholism' is an obsolete term. Or better yet, rewrite the intro so that the move to the new term by the medical world is prompted by a suggestion from the WHO and may be underway, instead of jumping on thier bandwagon. That is something you need to read the entire intro for to understand. Maybe a name change for the article is something that needs to be discussed and debated among the 'club members' running the article. KTrimble (talk) 21:13, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

I'm neither for nor against changing the name, but I think at minimum the article should discuss criticism of the current "model" or way of thinking about "alcohol abuse". The article as it is today suggests that there is no debate on the topic, that everything is obvious and objectively true, when the idea of "abusing" alcohol, especially the idea that it is a disease, is a social construction that shifts over time and depends on the morality of the day. 174.65.74.44 (talk) 20:24, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

I agree that the term Alcoholism has become somewhat archaic. The DSM has transitioned more towards Alcohol Use Disorders, since it encompasses a wider range of hazardous alcohol use, and the NIAAA and WHO also seems to favor the use of AUD.--Gghanem8 (talk) 08:37, 19 April 2019 (UTC)

The title change from 'Alcoholism' to 'Alcohol Use Disorders' seems sensible to me as well. -kslays (talk • contribs) 21:09, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
 * I actually agree that changing the article's name deserves serious consideration. In my experience, the term alcohol use disorder is preferred since it is perceived as less stigmatizing by many people. Perhaps this could be opened to an RfC to see what the community thinks. There are certainly numerous sources that use the term alcohol use disorder. TylerDurden8823 (talk) 05:32, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

Table
I made a table about the typical alcohol content of alcoholic beverages Allegedly, links pointed to unreliable sites. Therefore, the table has been removed. Couldn't it reload if I took the links out of the cells? (I think it would be a good overview at the end of the article.) 12akd (talk) 08:14, 25 June 2020 (UTC)


 * I don't think so. We already have a table of ABV for popular drinks, and Wikipedia is not meant to be an image gallery. The content of course must be reliably-sourced, and some of this information is just wrong anyway. Alexbrn (talk) 08:32, 25 June 2020 (UTC)


 * I like it, but the English Wikipedia tends to be USA-centric and this table will likely not "seem right" to many editors since it has a European flavor to it. It might be received more favorably on the German, French, Spanish, Italian, Hungarian, and other European Wikipedia sites. // You should remove links to specific brands as this comes across as promotional. // I am not sure which information is "just wrong anyway", but perhaps Alexbrn would be willing to help you correct inaccuracies.  - Mark D Worthen PsyD   (talk)   (I'm a man—traditional male pronouns are fine.)  09:48, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Well, from the first 3 images the range of beer and wine ABV's is obviously wrong, and prosecco is not champagne (even in America!) Alexbrn (talk) 12:20, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Alexbrn - Utah used to have 3.2% beer so there might be something to the ranges, but overall I agree with you that the table is "not ready for prime time" as it is.  - Mark D Worthen PsyD   (talk)   (I'm a man—traditional male pronouns are fine.)  00:00, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
 * There are milds and small beer which are weaker. Even if this gallery were good, this is an article on alcoholism - a disorder - so it would be inappropriate here rather than at, say, Alcoholic drink. Alexbrn (talk) 01:32, 14 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Good point Alexbrn. I concur. :0)  - Mark D Worthen PsyD   (talk)   (I'm a man—traditional male pronouns are fine.)  04:48, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 July 2020
Social Effects: Alcohol may begin, and starts out as a stimulant, but with more (alcohol) consumption, it becomes a depressant. 2601:8C3:8080:8320:91E3:C8BE:4FDC:65FB (talk) 15:28, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate.  JTP (talk • contribs) 17:10, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 July 2020
Social Effects: Alcohol may begin, and starts out as a stimulant, but with more (alcohol) consumption, it becomes a depressant. 2601:8C3:8080:8320:91E3:C8BE:4FDC:65FB (talk) 15:28, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate.  JTP (talk • contribs) 17:10, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Younger age
User:Saidmann, I wonder whether the not-quite-redundant sentence could be made clearer. It says:


 * Individuals who have a genetic disposition to alcoholism are also more likely to begin drinking at an earlier age than average.
 * A younger age of onset of drinking is associated with an increased risk of the development of alcoholism...

These are different, but the difference is a bit subtle. Could we make it more explicit? (Also, the cited source is weak and 10 years old, so maybe we should find better sources.) WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:01, 25 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Thanks. You are right. I am already in it and hope to fix it soon. --Saidmann (talk) 19:02, 25 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Done. --Saidmann (talk) 20:47, 25 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the update, @Saidmann. What do you think of these more recent review articles?  Are any of them useful?   WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:27, 25 November 2020 (UTC)


 * In my view these three mini-reviews by Linda Spear from 2014-15 are too hypothetical for encyclopedial use. Her issues are also well covered by the extraordinarily comprehensive review from 2016 that I had added yesterday. But thanks for the co-operation! Greetings. --Saidmann (talk) 12:05, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks.  WhatamIdoing (talk) 05:41, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 January 2021
--Red Wattlebird (talk) 01:14, 18 January 2021 (UTC) Change ‘Westearn’ to ‘Western’. Incorrect spelling. Red Wattlebird (talk) 01:14, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Still a good article?
This article achieved Good Article status in 2010. I don't think it still qualifies, but I believe it can be brought back up to GA standards if a few editors devote some time and effort to the task. I posted an informal GA review on a sandbox page. If you can help improve this article to bring it back to GA standards that would be great. - Mark D Worthen PsyD  (talk)   (I'm a man—traditional male pronouns are fine.)  21:46, 16 August 2020 (UTC)


 * This page should be renamed. The term "alcoholism" was abandoned by the scientific and medical community in 1980.  It is a binary, black-and-white term that simply fails to capture the fact that alcohol abuse occurs on a continuum.  It just plainly isn't within the "you are or you aren't" mentality, which the word "alcoholism" inherently carries. Mleonard85032 15:10, 8 September 2020 (UTC)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mleonard85032 (talk • contribs)


 * I agree that "alcoholism" is a dated term that assumes a false dichotomy between "disease" and "no disease". And, I agree that the term "alcoholism" is no longer used by researchers, physicians, psychologists, alcohol counselors, etc. What to do with this article is another question that does not have an easy answer. The best option would probably be to merge good content from this article into Alcohol Use Disorder. But that's just my opinion. Mark D Worthen PsyD (talk) [he/his/him] 23:11, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I would also support officially renaming the article to alcohol use disorder. Perhaps we need to put it to an official vote (RFC)? TylerDurden8823 (talk) 08:27, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I agree: this article should be renamed to "alcohol use disorder." RobertLovesPi (talk) 13:09, 21 March 2021 (UTC)


 * , by profession, is a bit of an expert on what language should be used. For me, I wouldn't want the change because that isn't the WP:COMMONNAME used by the medical profession nor by the reliable sources.  COMMONNAME is the actual policy that dictates what the name should be, so whatever it ends up being, it has to comply with that.  Dennis Brown - 2&cent; 17:37, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Good point Dennis Brown—thank you. // Perhaps we should begin to change the article so that it's not about a current disease entity, but instead about alcoholism as a historical term. Mark D Worthen PsyD (talk) [he/his/him] 10:28, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
 * There may be enough material to justify a History of Alcoholism article that covers all culture, but that is a separate issue from the name here. Dennis Brown - 2&cent; 10:40, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Oh goodness, you are absolutely correct. I forgot that "Alcohol Use Disorder" redirects to this article (Alcoholism). :^|

Hyperlinks to this article
There is an active RfC underway on the Whisky talk page as to whether the "whisky" article will include links to articles about the effects of alcohol Specifically: Should the whisky article provide direct links to articles about the effects of ethanol on those who consume whisky? Here is a proposed sentence with hyperlinks: Some effects of whisky consumption are due to its alcohol content. See: Alcohol intoxication, Short-term effects of alcohol consumption, Long-term effects of alcohol, and Alcohol and health.

sbelknap (talk) 21:23, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 June 2021
Alcoholism IS recognized by the AMA as a disease. 96.242.142.8 (talk) 18:13, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:53, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 June 2021
Within the genetics section please change...

"...have a significantly higher rate of alcoholism than average; risk factors such as cultural environmental effects e.g. trauma have been proposed to explain the higher rates.[92][93] The..."

to

"...have a significantly higher rate of alcoholism than average; risk factors such as cultural environmental effects (e.g. trauma) have been proposed to explain the higher rates.[92][93] The..."

For grammar and readability purposes Gorylk24 (talk) 00:31, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅ &#9678; | melecie |   t  07:06, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

Request the writer of this article, or anyone that can help on several parts listed below
1. Talbot (1989) observes that alcoholism in the classical disease model, 2.Johnson (1980) explores the emotional progression of the addict's response to alcohol. Can the writer help elaborate on Talbot and Jonson? and 3. the reference of can not be accessed here, can you help? I'm now translating this artile into traditional Chinese. We do have a short writing in Chinese, but it's too short. I itend to have the whole article translated. Thanks.ThomasYehYeh (talk) 11:13, 27 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Further, 1. please help elaborate on "That term now has a more specific meaning."(per the paragraph of History); 2. and I'm not sure if the wordings of "Peyote, a psychoactive agent, has even shown promise in treating alcoholism. Alcohol had actually replaced peyote as Native Americans’ psychoactive agent of choice in rituals when peyote was outlawed." is necessary. It seems the "Peyote" can be developed into another subject of discussion. Thank you for your kind understanding.ThomasYehYeh (talk) 09:26, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Peer reviewers: Reese Zamora.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 13:46, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): SerinaNiux.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 17:04, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Benzodiazepines?!?
“Alcohol cessation treated with benzodiazepines” that’s a dangerous. Someone should edit that or add a warning Bobbeck13 (talk) 12:29, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Actually treatment of alcohol withdrawal syndrome with a benzodiazepine helps a lot and is standard treatment. However, I appreciate your comment because that section of the article lacked citations to reliable sources, which I have added. Mark D Worthen PsyD (talk) [he/him] 20:59, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

Removal of Research section and commercial entries
The Research section was removed improperly after having been updated with considerable consultation and discussion and I have now reinstated it as it was. Please do not remove it again.

The section on Medication discussing The Sinclair Method should be removed because this is a commercial enterprise which is associated with Roy Escapa who runs a rehabilitation business using Naltrexone. There is already a reference to Naltrexone which has been approved for treatment of alcoholism. The entry also gives advice on dosage which is not permissible under Wiki rules and puts Wikipedia in breach of various prohibitions on advising on dosage of prescription medications issued by national medical supervisory bodies. It needs to be removed and if it is not, I will do so. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Burdenedwithtruth (talk • contribs) 10:07, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

Not science
Alcoholism is not a scientific concept, yet it is presented here as such. It is defined by arbitrary rules that are rooted in hate speech that was designed to manipulate human beings to kill other human beings for the sake of profit. This is religious propaganda disguised as science. Alcoholism was invented for the sake of shaming human beings to maximize profit and glory in war. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Citizen127 (talk • contribs) 13:44, 29 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia is not a forum to express your personal thoughts or opinion, either find some reliable sources or leave it as is.--Megaman en m (talk) 17:45, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

The article is making assertions based on hate and social contructs. It's not my responsibility to prove its baseless assumptions wrong any more than it is my responsibility to prove that unicorns don't exist. Citizen127 (talk) 05:49, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

Diagnosis
In the diagnosis for ICD11, a symtomatic course of 3 months is now taken if you can correct this. 178.197.225.83 (talk) 08:44, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Alcoholics Anonymous is effective
I noticed an editor, in this diff added the claim (without a reference actually backing up the claim) that Alcoholics Anonymous’s effectiveness is disputed. In light of the Cochrane 2020 report on Alcoholics Anonymous (and the 2016 Surgeon General’s report, etc.), I do not think there’s any real scientific doubt that AA has a small but positive effect, increasing abstinence from alcohol. SkylabField (talk) 01:39, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I edited the Management > Psychological subsection a bit (diff) to ensure that our description carefully tracks the Cochrane 2020 systematic review's findings. In particular, the authors concluded that clinically-delivered, manualized TSF interventions demonstrated superior results as measured by continuous abstinence. In addition, this conclusion was supported by "high‐certainty evidence" compared to many of the other findings, which, as the authors faithfully report, are based on very low- or low-certainty evidence (with some moderate-certainty evidence).


 * I still think this finding is very important. I've worked in the substance abuse field since 1982 and this is one of the first times enough high-quality, methodologically rigorous studies have been published and subsequently reviewed and integrated into well-supported conclusory statements. The field has come a long way! All the best - Mark D Worthen PsyD (talk) [he/him] 05:39, 26 January 2022 (UTC)


 * I slightly trimmed it to make it easier to follow. What Cochrane shows us is that Alcoholics Anonymous has been scientifically shown via experimental (randomized) studies to be helpful to some alcoholics (this was actually first seen in Humphreys 2014, but Cochrane 2020 makes it general scientific consensus).  It took us a long time to get there.  Before this consensus was established, some really bad faith arguments falsely claiming a “5% success rate” and what not have been made (mis-reading an old 1990 graph AA made is not good science, and doing some rather creative math with an old 1980 study as recently as 2014 isn’t good science either) and still make the rounds on social media (Reddit is a particularly bad offender here, but Twitter users sometimes make outdated bad claims about AA efficacy too).  SkylabField (talk) 21:07, 31 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Well said with very pertinent examples. :0) Mark D Worthen PsyD (talk) [he/him] 02:17, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

I have reverted a recent edit claiming AA is ineffective. While Cochrane Reviews are high quality reviews, the conclusions from a 2006 Cochrane review are superseded by the 2020 Cochrane review covering the same topic, as per WP:MEDDATE. Here is a reference for the more recent review (both the original review and a “distilled” version of its conclusions):



Current general scientific consensus is that AA has a small but significant positive effect treating alcoholism. SkylabField (talk) 07:33, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Alcoholism to alcohol use disorder?
User @JMacGinnis recently changed all instances of "alcoholism" to "alcohol use disorder" (except for the title). I vote to change it back since the article was written with the term "alcoholism" in mind and some of the changes result in poorly written phrases like "used to detect possible Alcohol Use Disorder". Any thoughts? Megaman en m (talk) 12:21, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Agreed. We should not make a change this drastic without talk page consensus. SkylabField (talk) 01:25, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Having had a look around I would agree that "Alcoholism" is the way to go.
 * It's the term used by Alcoholics Anonymous and the NHS says "If someone loses control over their drinking and has an excessive desire to drink, it's known as dependent drinking (alcoholism)."
 * Dependant drinking does sort of say it (and does it better than "alcohol use disorder" - but for me the most "accessable" term is "alcoholism" . Let's stick with that. When / if the person you meet in the street starts to use another term we could consider it again. Lukewarmbeer (talk) 13:31, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Alcoholism and Alcohol Use Disorder are defined differently by physicians. Alcoholism reflects use of alcohol and/or any cross-tolerant sedative including barbiturates and benzodiazepines. Thus, an individual with alcoholism might have symptoms that include use of clonazepam but no alcohol per se. Alcohol Use Disorder, on the other hand, is defined within DSM-5, and is separate from Sedative Use Disorder (much to the annoyance of many in the field). So many of us who work in the field use the term alcoholism to refer to the generic issue, while we might diagnose alcohol or sedative use disorders in a specific patient chart. Drgitlow (talk) 00:13, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I've never seen alcoholism defined as use of other sedatives including barbiturates or benzodiazepines. We have a separate page for that . The distinction you made is also not supported by many sources (e.g., https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/brochures-and-fact-sheets/understanding-alcohol-use-disorder). I actually would be in favor of renaming the article alcohol use disorder. TylerDurden8823 (talk) 03:11, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 August 2022
Add under "Research" a sub-section on computational modelling. The sub-section might start: "More recently, in an attempt to overcome some of the challenges faced by existing diagnostic schemes, including their limited specificity and stability (see e.g. Rehm et al. 2013), to improve knowledge of the causal structure of alcohol use disorders and to find effective treatments, psychiatrists have been increasingly relying on computational modelling" (ref. Colombo, M. Computational Modelling for Alcohol Use Disorder. Erkenn (2022). https://doi.org/10.1007/s10670-022-00533-x) 85.148.130.84 (talk) 13:28, 28 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: Please write the section you want added, and then someone can add it to the article for you. Of the universe (talk) 17:07, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

Issues with Definition section
The article is titled Alcoholism though that term, due to having many different imprecise definitions, see3ms to be generally avoided by researchers, governments, medical professionals, etc. and remains more an informal term used by laypeople. The Definition section though starts with defining "Misuse, problem use, abuse, and heavy use of alcohol" when maybe it would be better to start with the explanation that there is a lack of consensus as to how to define the term alcoholism so the researchers, medical experts, governments, etc prefer to use term like "Misuse, problem use, abuse, and heavy use of alcohol" to refer to improper use of alcohol, which may cause physical, social, or moral harm to the drinker. refer to improper use of alcohol, which may cause physical, social, or moral harm to the drinker. The we can explain the how the term alcoholism is used by lay people and why experts avoid the term these days. We can then delve more deeply into define concepts like "Misuse, problem use, abuse, and heavy use of alcohol" as used by medical professionals, researchers, and governments. The section currently includes a definition of "Moderate drinking" based only the U.S. Government's Dietary Guidelines for Americans which ignores other country's differing definitions of "Moderate drinking" (Wikipedia is supposed to reflect a international worldview not just a U.S. centric one). Also, we should at least summarize what evidence/rational are being used for such a definitions of "moderate drinking" where possible. Also, as the article on "Standard Drink" states, there is no consensus as to what constitutes a standard drink among governments/health orgs around the word. Thus whether any persons consumption of drinks per day or week is moderate or not depends on how one defines a "standard drink", especially with regard to beer which can significantly very in ABV, especially for craft/microbrews and "Small beers"/low-alcohol beers. Notcharliechaplin (talk) 00:43, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

The "Possible long-term effects of ethanol" image is patently false pro-alcohol propaganda
See any of the recent studies (https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/03/220325122708.htm) or the discussion at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Human_body_diagrams Surgian (talk) 13:29, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
 * While I am aware that some more recent studies have disputed that idea that moderate consumption of alcohol is healthy for the heart, I am not aware of their being a consensus yet among researchers as to whether this is indeed the case. There doesn't appear to be enough studies supporting this as "patently false pro-alcohol propaganda" just yet so it would be inappropriate to make that claim in the article or remove the diagram in question in the article, though we could mention debate over the subject as a result of these newer studies without drawing any firm conclusions not yet supported by scientific consensus.--Notcharliechaplin (talk) 00:51, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

Believed to be?
From the page: *...research has found that over 50% of all suicides are associated with alcohol or drug dependence. This is believed to be due to alcohol causing physiological distortion of brain chemistry, as well as social isolation.*

No references are provided.

I suppose whoever authored these remarkable claims felt that their qualifications were sufficient to justify their contributions.

In response, I can only say that, it is *believed to be* the author is full of it. And, if we are going to keep track, it is *believed* furthermore that Elvis lives, that a 500-year old man saved all life on earth from extinction, and that certain television personalities can commune with the dead. 2601:242:4100:ED7:C4E7:AF62:A391:536 (talk) 02:13, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

Lead section is too long, wordy, and full of jargon
I’m going to make revisions to the lead section.

At time of writing, there are 6 long paragraphs that go into unnecessary detail. The first paragraph is awkward in the wordy way it tries to discuss the different definitions: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Alcoholism&oldid=1176069961

For reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Lead_section Merlin  s  orca  14:15, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

Rename to alcohol use disorder
Alcoholism has not been a medical term for decades. It is now referred to as alcohol use disorder to reflect the fact that it is a spectrum and most people who drink excessively are not alcoholics. The page should be renamed. Mleonard85032 (talk) 13:54, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Two different maps for the same legend ?
The maps of prevalesnce of alcoholim are clearly different yet have the same code/legend. Which one is the correct one ? 137.222.42.24 (talk) 18:51, 13 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Looks like the top one is female and bottom male. Can someone confirm and edit the map to match? 46.30.132.204 (talk) 11:28, 27 November 2023 (UTC)