Talk:Ale language

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Requested move 28 February 2019

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

Moved. After being open about a month, a close–reopen and 2.5 relistings (Xain36 on 8 March (malplaced), DannyS712 on 10 March and Amakuru on 20 March), this discussion ranges from "no consensus to not move" to "rough consensus to move". So this request is granted. If new evidence and arguments can be provided, then there is no prejudice toward a new, reverting RM. Kudos to editors for your input, and Happy Publishing! (nac by page mover)  Paine Ellsworth , ed. put'r there 18:16, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

Gawwada language → Ale language – Ethnologue name, and "Gawwada" and variants of it are pejorative accd to Ethnologue. Julia ☺ 23:48, 28 February 2019 (UTC) --Relisting. DannyS712 (talk) 07:23, 10 March 2019 (UTC) --Relisting.  &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 19:18, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Almost all of the sources in glottolog's bibliography seem to use Gawadda, but tellingly, the two most recent ones have it as Ale and Alle respectively. According to one of these sources, Gawadda is a formerly used incorrect name, the language now officially being known as Alle, after the woreda of the same name. So definitely the articles needs to be moved, but I'm not sure between the two spellings, and if Ale ends up being preferred, then there's the problem of Ale language being apparently the alternative name of a language of Vanuatu. – Uanfala (talk) 14:42, 1 March 2019 (UTC) --Relisting. X ain36  { talk } 05:22, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Oppose – Wikipedia policy is to use the common name, not necessarily the official name. See:
 * WP:OFFICIAL: "People often assume that, where an official name exists for the subject of a Wikipedia article, that name is ipso facto the correct title for the article, and that if the article is under another title then it should be moved. In many cases this is contrary to Wikipedia practice and policy."
 * WP:NAMINGCRITERIA: "The title is one that readers are likely to look or search for and that editors would naturally use to link to the article from other articles. Such a title usually conveys what the subject is actually called in English."
 * WP:COMMONNAME: "Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title; it generally prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources)."
 * ISO 639 & SIL International call the language "Gawwada". Glottolog calls it "Ale-Gawwada", part of the Dullay family, with Gollango as a child language. WALS calls it "Dullay (Gollango)" with "Gawwada" as an alternative name. Ethnologue calls it "Ale" with alternate names: Dabosse, Debase, Dobase, Dullay, Gobeze, Qawko, Werizoid, "Gauwada" (pej.), "Gawata" (pej.), "Gawwada" (pej.), "Gewada" (pej.), "Kawwad'a" (pej.), "Kawwada" (pej.). Nonetheless, we need evidence that English speakers, especially non-experts are more like to search for "Ale" than "Gawwada" before the article is moved. In the meantime, the information from Ethnologue can be cited and incorporated into the article. Danielklein (talk) 11:47, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, official names aren't necessarily better, but here we've got a former name that's apparently perceived as both incorrect and derogatory. There's no need to stick to such names just because not all tertiary sources have gotten around to updating their preferences yet. – Uanfala (talk) 14:10, 10 March 2019 (UTC)


 * Relisting comment. I closed this as no consensus earlier, but per a message on my talk page earlier I will now give this one more go. The problem is that although it is asserted by those in favour that the current title is obsolete and offensive, there is little in the way of evidence presented for that. Some of the most solid sources, particularly the ISO standards authority, still use the Gawwada name. The opposition is therefore IMHO enough to counter the support as it stands. It would be good for more eyes and more evidence to be presented though, so let's give it one more week. Thanks &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 19:18, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Well, I can only repeat in greater detail what I've written above: Gawadda indeed appears to have been the common name until a decade ago: see the long bibliography at glottolog : the last work whose title uses this term is from 2008. Two dedicated text have been published since then, and their titles are:
 * Luminita Prisecaru. 2015. A Brief Grammar of the Ale Language. Addis Ababa, Ethiopia: SIL Ethiopia. 42pp.
 * Yoshino, Hiroshi. 2013. Preliminary survey on 'Alle verbal system. Studies in Ethiopian Languages 2. 82-95.
 * Now, if the literature has moved away from the older name, and even if ethnologue, which is generally slow to revise, now prefers "Ale", we have no reason to stick to the old name. Generally, we would need a really strong reason to prefer a name that is both incorrect and pejorative, and the tardiness with which some tertiary sources get updated is definitely not one. – Uanfala (talk) 21:41, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
 * I raised the issue of the ambiguity of the term "Ale" above, so I'd just like to note that this language is definitely the primary topic for the term, so the preferred title should be Ale language. – Uanfala (talk) 14:40, 28 March 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.