Talk:Aleksandr Karelin

Untitled
I can´t find info on Karelins reach (wingspan). If you have this info (with a reliable source), please update article! Joakim Quensel (talk) 11:18, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

Please clarify
Who has ever called him "The Russian Dan Gable"? The Russian Bear, or The Siberian Tiger.. never Dan Gable- its almost an insult.. lol

For someone who knows nothing about wrestling the following is unclear:
 * Karelin was able to lift the opponent from around his waist and throw him all the way over the opponent's shoulders

I can't tell from the photo whether this means he is going to flip the opponent over in a somersault or toss the opponent back over his own head. CalJW 09:56, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

He has him in a headlock. He's going to turn around as he falls and land on him.

Spelling of name
Before we run around in more circles, Lakes, do you have a reference for Alexandr being his birth name? I saw that spelling once on his website, but most of the time it does use Alexander. The one he uses most often on his website is what we should go with for the spelling of his name in Latin characters, unless there is specific evidence indicating otherwise. Obviously you could transliterate his name in different ways, but again, the one he uses most often is probably the best. - Taxman Talk 22:15, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Since the best source available (his own website) spells his name Alexander, I'm changing it back until there's a reliable source otherwise. I would also note a google search  for "Alexander Karelin" returns 34,000 hits, whereas a search for "Alexandr Karelin"  returns only 372. Tufflaw 02:03, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Look. His official birth name is: Александр Александрович Карелин, which is also listed on his website. His first name directly translates to Alexandr not Alexander. Alexander is more of a stage name, and of course that is what he uses since ..dr feels more like a typo for English speaking people. However this is Wikipedia, and his real name should be mentioned, with the note that he uses the name "Alexander Karelin" outside Russia(n). The article is still named Alexander Karelin, as it should be.
 * ↪Lakes (Talk) 06:26, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Political stature?
The article on the United Russia party seemed to indicate Karelin is an important political figure. But this article barely mentions his political career. What's his status in Russian politics? MK2 06:14, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

The 2000 loss to Rulon Gardner
It should perhaps be mentioned that he only lost to Rulon Gardner because of the outlandish rules that were valid at the time. As far as I remember it, the game extended into an overtime, after which there still was no winner, so there was a grotesque "decider": a drawing decided who would defend and who would have to attack. Karelin, drawn as the one who was to attack, could not break Gardner's defence and lost. It is not difficult to imagine what would have happened had been the other way round: in all probability Gardner wouldn't have succeeded as the "attacker" either; especially given Karelin's superior strength and abilities, as to which there was no controversy. It may be too rash to say Karelin was robbed of his gold, but the assymmetry in the rules was indeed unfortunate and distressing. Ariosto 14:00, 8 February 2007 (UTC)


 * To be honest it sounds a bit like sour grapes and potentially an NPOV issue. This should be backed up by a reliable source before it goes in. Ronnotel 16:17, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Let's remember that Karelin had drawn back to back matches on the day of the gold medal round, whereas Gardner had a cake-walk to the gold medal round. Despite the loss, Karelin is the most remarkable wrestler of the modern age.


 * If he had scored earlier, it wouldn't have been an issue. Athletes tend to accept that more readily than fans. - Taxman Talk 16:41, 8 February 2007 (UTC)


 * It does; it should; and it wouldn't (and they do). I don't question any of these points. But I'm not a big fan, I just think that - if I remember the whole thing correctly - the question of rules deserves a mention. If someone could verify this and just add a one-sentence comment on this, it would be nice. That's all. Ariosto 01:15, 10 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Rules that were in place by Fila at the time have Already be removed (only were active for One Olympic games, I believe.Schlottke

They were both wrestling under the same rules. Had he been able to put Gardner away earlier it wouldn't have been an issue. Gardner was there because he too was a good wrestler. Doesn't diminish Karelin's legacy as a great wrestler.TheDarkOneLives (talk) 10:11, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

This sentence is not supported by the citations The win was controversial at the time as it took 90 seconds to review,[15] and is still an element of contention today since the broken-hands clinch rule had only been put in a few months earlier.[16)

16 links to an article from years earlier and 15 does not mention controversy, it mentions the replay clearly showed Gardner won the point. This is what it says: "The key moment came after the first scoreless three minutes. At that point, the wrestlers begin the second period with a clinch and must remain locked until one executes a scoring move or releases his lock. As the two powered each other to the side of the mat, Gardner managed to keep his hands clinched, but Karelin's slipped apart. It took 90 seconds of replay by the mat judges to confirm that Karelin's hands had separated, but it was clear that they had." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2000:7031:1600:703D:4D0A:7629:8FBD (talk) 04:05, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

Unique Medal Accomplishment
I believe Karelin is the only person to win Olympic gold, or even Olympic medals, for the USSR, the Unified Team, and Russia. I would like to include this to emphasize his tremendous career. If anyone knows otherwise, please post. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.212.96.45 (talk) 08:14, 13 February 2007 (UTC).


 * I don't think so. Look up the article called Soviet Union at the Olympics and you'll see the medal count for them. Also, I know that their hockey team won the gold medal at least once against Canada the Olympics before the USA beat them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.39.255.105 (talk) 17:35, 23 June 2008 (UTC)


 * What the former USSR and Russia is and was always the first or second in the count of gold medals at the olympics. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.89.129.243 (talk) 22:54, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

I meant that I believe Karelin is the only person to win Olympic gold for all three, the USSR, the Unified Team, and Russia. I am aware that each of these entities has produced many gold-medal winners, but think one individual claiming gold for all three over the course of a career may be unique. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.218.239.18 (talk) 14:56, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

this article needs some TLC
This is a remarkably incomplete article for such a long-lived and brilliant athlete. He was considered at points in his career to be the greatest physical athlete alive; the point about his stretch without giving up a single point in competition is telling. Both his athletic history and his current political and local work deserve a mention. +sj + 02:03, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Technique Section
The section describing Karelin's lift move, while plausible & likely factual is totally undocumented. Please do so, if you can. Otherwise, I may blank it. Tapered (talk) 19:35, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

Obvious typo, "in the first four years...won...three Olympic games..."
In the first four years of his international sporting career, Karelin won almost 100 international bouts, three Olympic games, three European championships, and three world championships without a single loss.

Unless he medaled in a winter Olympics, this is obviously impossible. There can be, at most, two summer Olympic games in any four-year period.

Since I'm not sure what the editor *did* mean to say, I'm not going to change the page, but someone should.

WikiAlto (talk) 07:17, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I have removed the whole statement, as it was repetitive and not supported by its references. Materialscientist (talk) 07:54, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

is it Six years without giving up a point? or ten years?
The article says "six years". However, I also see several sources (including reference #12) which say "10 years." Here is a list of about five references which say "10 years", followed by several which say "six years".

-- Reference 12 in the article SAYS Karelin is universally considered the greatest Greco-Roman wrestler of all time, a man who had never lost in international competition, who had not conceded a point in 10 years.

http://espn.go.com/espn/espn25/story?page=moments/89  says Russian wrestler Alexander Karelin had not even yielded a point over a 10-year span heading into the 2000 Summer Olympic Games in Sydney, Australia. BUT IT ALSO SAYS: Gasps are heard from the crowd as Gardner receives a point -- the first point Karelin has yielded in 15 years.

Karelin, Alexander - Encyclopedia.com www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G2-3407900287.html Russia's Alexander Karelin is the most successful Greco-Roman wrestler of the ... entered for thirteen years and went ten years without giving up a single point.

Miracle Workers - latimes articles.latimes.com/2000/sep/28/news/ss-28151 Sep 28, 2000 - Farm Boy's 1-0 Victory Ends 15 Years of Dominance. September 28 ... Alexander Karelin, who in the last 10 years had not yielded a point.

10 years ago: Gardner upset Karelin to win gold medal at ... www.examiner.com/.../10-years-ago-gardner-upset-karelin-to-win-gold-... Sep 27, 2010 - Russian wrestler Alexander Karelin had not surrendered a single point during a 10-year span heading into the 2000 Summer Olympics. He had ...

NOW HERE ARE REFERENCES WHICH SAY "six years"

Aleksandr Karelin - Sports-Reference.com www.sports-reference.com › OLY Home › Athletes You Are Here > OLY Home > Athletes > Aleksandr Karelin ... Igor Rostorotsky at the 1987 Soviet Championships, and had not lost a point in a match in six years. Badass of the Week: Alexander Karelin www.badassoftheweek.com/karelin.html Alexander Karelin is the real-life equivalent of what you would get if you ... Shit, for six full years this guy never lost a single point in international competition, ...

TIL about Alexander Karelin, who went undefeated for six ... https://www.reddit.com/.../til_about_alexander_karelin_who_went... Reddit Aug 27, 2011 - Actually, he went undefeated for over thirteen years (1987-2000). He never gave up a single point in competition for six years. Headline is ...

Aleksandr Karelin Explained - Everything - Explained.Today everything.explained.today/Aleksandr_Karelin/ After going 13 years undefeated in international competition and six years without giving up a point, he had an upset loss to American Rulon Gardner in the ...

Alexander Karelin | Speakers and more | FloWrestling old.flowrestling.org/speaker/8619-Alexander-Karelin Alexander Karelin | Aleksandr Aleksandrovich Karelin, born September 19, ... 2000) Karelin went the last six years of his unbeaten streak without giving up a point. ... Karelin's first loss in 13 years of international competition, and first lost point ...

WikiAlto (talk) 09:21, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

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1991-1996 World Championship Details
Please add the 1991-1996 World Championships details (which he won) in the International Competition Records section বিড়ালতপা চক্কোত্তি (talk) 18:35, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

Shoot or work
Karelin's one and only mma fight was considered a "work" (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_professional_wrestling_terms#work) not a shoot. 2600:1001:B00F:5F00:585B:1AF3:1486:5C2 (talk) 01:31, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

1992 Besançon World Cup
For this World Cup, he is listed as having won gold, yet for UWW database, he is listed as having come second despite them detailing him as only losing one international match, to Rulon Gardner in the 2000 Olympics final. Reaper1945 (talk) 04:51, 2 May 2023 (UTC)


 * https://uww.org/person/aleksandr-karelin Reaper1945 (talk) 04:51, 2 May 2023 (UTC)