Talk:Alert, Nunavut/Archive 1

Alert's value as a military base
Before the last major revamp of programming from Discovery channel Canada, there was a show that talked about Alert. I recall it mentioning that Alert is/was a monitoring station in the Arctic because the Arctic has relatively little signals being broadcast there, and is a very good place to have eavesdropping equipment to listen to reflected RF signals from the atmosphere. ECHELON has an antenna there (that's from the ECHELON article), and not surprisingly it was used to monitor the Russians. --Calyth 16:29, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Edmonton
"The nearest large Canadian city... is Edmonton".

What is the definition of a large city? ςפקιДИτς 19:22, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Perhaps it should be edited to refer to census metropolitan area or something objective, because you're right -- "large" is a relative and subjective term. --Skeezix1000 14:30, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

You call that near?!!? It's serval thousand miles away! Tobyk777 04:00, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I think that's the point. Skeezix1000 14:30, 13 April 2006 (UTC)


 * The Edmonton thing comes from CFS Alert. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 18:39, 13 April 2006 (UTC)


 * The reason for saying "larg"e (I'm guessing) is otherwise you could possible claim that Iqaluit is the nearest city. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 18:43, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Polar Day/night
What are the dates?
 * The dates of 24-hr sun up/down are now listed. I removed the other statement about 24-hour daylight because normally "daylight" excludes anything when the sun is below the horizon (this being twilight). -User: Nightvid
 * I used the tables at US Naval Observatory (requires coordinates and setting of time zone to -5) and Canada's National Research Council (the first one works with just typing in Alert) and they both give the period March 24 - Sept 18/19 as 24 hours daylight as the sun is at that point above the twilight line. Although not quite as far north as Alert, we get the same effect here in Cambridge Bay but for a shorter period. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 16:32, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Merger
I had been thinking about this for a few days. It seems silly to have two articles about one place. However, I would go with merging this into CFS Alert. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 02:51, 25 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, it seems to me that CFS Alert is a military base in Alert, so merging CFS Alert into Alert might be a better idea. ςפקι Д Иτς ☺ ☻ 04:39, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
 * My contention is that Alert as such does not exist in the same way that Iqaluit, Nunavut or Cambridge Bay, Nunavut exists. Alert is a military station and not a community. All the personnel are posted to the station at Alert (military/weather) and don't choose to live there like I choose to live in Cambridge Bay. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 05:02, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't understand why you would merge them. Alert, Nunavut has a storied history on it's own as it's own place, but today exists as a military installation. The permanent population is zero (apparently the 2001 census lists 5 people living there, but when I visited, there wasn't a single permanent resident to be found). Having said that, it would be inappropriate to merge the Alert article into the CFS Alert one in that the history of both, although intertwined, are not equal. -Hauger, 05:35 7 April 2006 (UTC)
 * There never were any permenant residents in Alert or the area as no Inuit ever lived that far north. Was Alert ever anything other than a military base? CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 06:10, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Is there any kind of civilian municipal government? I don't know the answer myself, but it can't be hard to verify. Peter Grey 06:15, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
 * The Canadian Forces state that the only people at Alert are military personnel and Envionment Canada employees here. Also it's not one of the communities recognized by the Govenment of Nunavut and thus the people stationed there don't vote in Territorial elections. The Canadian Encyclopedia has a short piece on it here. It looks as if I answered my own question Alert was only ever a weather station and then a military base. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 06:28, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
 * If Alert is not one of the communities recognized by the Govenment of Nunavut then I would say that Alert, Nunavet does not exist and this article should be merged into the other.

I would also advocate for a merger; AFAIK Alert is a military base and a weather station run by Environment Canada only. It is not a community. IMHO, the history of Alert is the history of the weather station and the military base. -Vectorchem, 17:27, 27 April 2006 (EST)
 * While it's nice to have someone agree with me I need to point out that their only edits are to this discussion. I find it embarrassing as it could lead to people suspecting that I am using sockpuppets to obtain my ends. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 06:36, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, one has to start somewhere. Not to worry, I am nobody's sockpuppet -Vectorchem 22:57, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I support a merge as well but propose to merge CFS Alert into Alert, Nunavut, only because it is better known and IDENTIFIED ON MAPS as such. That way it will be listed under "A" in all the categories and this is an important consideration because we want people to find the article when searched for. -- P199 14:49, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Following up on this discussion from more than a decade ago, the two articles as they currently exist seem completely redundant to me. CFS Alert has a great deal of information that is not strictly relevant for an article about a military installation, and also includes information about the weather station and observatory, neither of which are military in nature. I have taken the liberty of expanding Alert, Nunavut, which is where I believe this information should be (along with climate and geography information), but I am uncertain whether there is a point in maintaining a separate page for CFS Alert. Since virtually all station operations are classified, there is little that can be said beyond describing the general history of the station, which could easily be covered in a subsection of Alert, Nunavut. I strongly recommend that CFS Alert be merged into Alert, Nunavut unless others believe that it could be sufficiently expanded to justify its separate existence. For the record, I have lived in Alert myself for most of the last four years, so I'm happy to answer any questions that might arise.Dansk59 (talk) 01:15, 9 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Oppose merger into Alert, Nunavut - primary topic is military base. Alert, Nunavut should be merged into CFS Alert. Llammakey (talk) 12:10, 9 February 2018 (UTC)


 * I strongly disagree with that. Though the station is certainly a large part of Alert, it was not the original reason that the area was settled, and a number of other activities run by other organizations still take place there today.  Plus, as P199 mentioned, Alert, Nunavut is a place name on a map, and should be categorized as such.  I would support merging CFS Alert into Alert, Nunavut or keeping two separate articles, but I can't see any justification for merging them the opposite way.Dansk59 (talk) 14:36, 9 February 2018 (UTC)


 * The more I think about this, the less sense merging them makes. I'm going to withdraw the proposal and work on removing unnecessary information (climate, geography, etc.) from CFS Alert. Dansk59 (talk) 17:33, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

Darkness
"From mid-October until the end of February the sun does not rise above the horizon and there is 24-hour darkness."

Since sunset is not synonymous with the onset of darkness, this is not accurate. 86.132.141.139 (talk) 03:50, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Current events could be updated...80.186.13.119 (talk) 09:42, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

"Semi-arid" climate
Someone undid an edit I made (not signed in, as an IP address) regarding the local climate being described as semi-arid. According to the most widely used system for classifying climates, the Koppen climate classification system, semi-arid climates are defined as having annual average precipitation below potential evapotranspiration (but not less than half), with potential evapotranspiration being represented by a calculated threshold. This threshold (in millimetres) is calculated as follows:


 * First, find the annual average temperature in °Celsius and multiply it by 20. Alert's annual average temperature is -18.0°C.


 * Second, find the percentage of annual average precipitation that falls in the high sun months (April through September in the Northern Hemisphere). If the percentage is below 70%, then add 140mm. If the percentage is equal to or greater than 70%, then add 280mm. On average, Alert receives 104.8mm of precipitation from April to September, which is 68.1% of its 153.8mm annual average.

Alert's precipitation threshold is therefore -220mm (-18.0 x 20 + 140 = -220). Even if we ignore the ratio of "warm" season precipitation to annual precipitation, and add an extra 140mm, the threshold is still -80mm. Though very dry, the area is not semi-arid.

1brettsnyder (talk) 01:25, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

My source

2006 Population numbers
"Alert was reported to have five permanent inhabitants according to the 2006 census[1] but owing to the way the Canadian Census is compiled, the true population of Alert could be between 1 and 10 inhabitants.[4])"

The Community Profile lumps Alert in with all of unorganized "Baffin," somewhat odd since Alert isn't even on Baffin Island. Other abandoned communities in Nunavut such as Isachsen are also have the same entry. In any event it would be impossible to tell if Alert even has a permanent population according to the census since there is no official listing for the community at all.

http://www12.statcan.ca/census-recensement/2006/dp-pd/prof/92-591/details/Page.cfm?Lang=E&Geo1=CSD&Code1=6204030&Geo2=PR&Code2=62&Data=Count&SearchText=Alert&SearchType=Begins&SearchPR=01&B1=All&Custom= — Preceding unsigned comment added by Histrogeek (talk • contribs) 22:37, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Permanently Inhabited
Currently the first sentence of this article states both that Alert has no permanent inhabitants and that it's the northernmost permanently inhabited place in the world. Is the latter no longer true? Kevinatilusa (talk) 02:04, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
 * It it permanently inhabited, but has no permanent population. In other words: There is always someone living there, but there is no one who is always living there. The military rotates people through there. - Sum mer PhD  (talk) 02:20, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Lancaster crash of 1950
I was a member of  the 26 man crew of the R.C.A.F #2 Construction and Maintenance Unit  out of Lincoln Park Calgary which was  sent to Thule and  Alert in 1957 to establish a base there. One of the many projects was to widen the existing runway and this involved moving the grave site and remains  of the 1950 Lancaster crash-to the existing site. I have extensively researched  the history of the events concerning the 1950 crash Also In 1957 I heard first hand  accounts from members of the D.O.T. and USAF Weather Bureau concerning  these events prior,during,and after they happened. Over the years I also have talked to other members who were there or knew people who were there in 1950 when this occurred. during this time and have compiled reams of notes from these conversations and e mails for my book on the subject.

One of the errors I noticed in your report of this crash, mention it had to make a landing on the open lead on Dumb Bell bay parallel to the shore as the Ice runway was broken up due to the mild weather, also the main runway didn't exist in 1950.That is why the lank had to parachute the supplies in and this led to the crash when the parashute got fouled up in stabilizers of the tail plane. which consequently lead to the crash. After the investigation the cansol loaded the bodies and attempted to take-off but was damaged in the attempt to do so  when it hit a ice flow.The plane had to have repairs made so the bodies were then placed back on land and interned at a the site near D.O.T. and that is where they remained until we moved them in 1957 to the present location down on the runway. I have been trying for years to get in touch with my crew (R.C.A.F #2 C.M.U LINCOLN PARK CALGARY but to no avail. I had the privilege of being on the crew in 2008 that went up to Alert for the 50th reunion of SIGINT. and being one of the original "Frozen Chosen" was one of the guest at the head table during the mess dinner there. While I was there I visited the site of 1950 (1957) graves during the dedication service to the 1990 crash of the 130  that crash just out side of Alert.

xxxx — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.70.230.90 (talk) 00:21, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Lancaster crash of 1950
I was a member of  the 26 man crew of the R.C.A.F #2 Construction and Maintenance Unit  out of Lincoln Park Calgary which was  sent to Thule and  Alert in 1957 to establish a base there. One of the many projects was to widen the existing runway and this involved moving the grave site and remains  of the 1950 Lancaster crash-to the existing site. I have extensively researched  the history of the events concerning the 1950 crash Also In 1957 I heard first hand  accounts from members of the D.O.T. and USAF Weather Bureau concerning  these events prior,during,and after they happened. Over the years I also have talked to other members who were there or knew people who were there in 1950 when this occurred. during this time and have compiled reams of notes from these conversations and e mails for my book on the subject.

One of the errors I noticed in your report of this crash, mention it had to make a landing on the open lead on Dumb Bell bay parallel to the shore as the Ice runway was broken up due to the mild weather, also the main runway didn't exist in 1950.That is why the lank had to parachute the supplies in and this led to the crash when the parashute got fouled up in stabilizers of the tail plane. which consequently lead to the crash. After the investigation the cansol loaded the bodies and attempted to take-off but was damaged in the attempt to do so  when it hit a ice flow.The plane had to have repairs made so the bodies were then placed back on land and interned at a the site near D.O.T. and that is where they remained until we moved them in 1957 to the present location down on the runway. I have been trying for years to get in touch with my crew (R.C.A.F #2 C.M.U LINCOLN PARK CALGARY but to no avail. I had the privilege of being on the crew in 2008 that went up to Alert for the 50th reunion of SIGINT. and being one of the original "Frozen Chosen" was one of the guest at the head table during the mess dinner there. While I was there I visited the site of 1950 (1957) graves during the dedication service to the 1990 crash of the 130  that crash just out side of Alert.

xxxx — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.70.230.90 (talk) 00:21, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

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