Talk:Alex Rodriguez/Archive 1

Home in Stamford, CT?
The Wikipedia article about Stamford, CT claims that Alex Rodriguez has a home there. But there is no source provided, and I live in Stamford and have never heard of it. Does anyone here know whether or not it's true? ---KeithP 03:17, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Like many wealthy people, he might be very secretive about his place of residence for protection of his privacy -- for reasons whic need not be explained. Records of his ownership of property unless he so chooses, media find him fair game due to a story, or (at the latest) when Census data are released 72 years after a Census enumeration... which would be in 2082 in which case someone could find him, his family, his occupation (baseball player), and other personal data. --Paul from Michigan 05:39, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

NPOV Problems
I got pointed here by the copyedit tag, and I must say, I have to agree; the article is sprinkled with a number of stylistic and NPOV problems. I'm a baseball fan and I understand that there are two (very loud) sides to the A-Rod coin. This article expresses both of them but both are too loud in here as well. It's okay to make points for or against A-Rod but it needs to be listed here evidence-only; there are FAR too many editorial statements being made around these facts. I'm going to go through and trim some of them and see what I can do with more of the style concerns. Frackintoaster 14:54, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Is this the first time in MLB that a reigning MVP has been traded? I can't think of any others. Kingturtle 22:24, 15 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I believe it is. DigiBullet 10:58, 17 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Cool, I like figuring these things out before the media does. I like to feel superior over their lame statisticians and historians :) Kingturtle 11:15, 17 Feb 2004 (UTC)


 * Actually this article mentions it. :) To think, just over three weeks after he was named team captain of the Rangers...  The Yankees are going to be insane this year.  Their payroll is up to $190 million now.  It was okay with me when they were a few mil over the second highest team, but now they're nearly double the second highest.  This gives me more reason to root for them to not win the World Series for a fourth year in a row. :) Minesweeper 11:25, Feb 17, 2004 (UTC)

I dig the article but I feel it needs some tweaking. I don't think the Yankees should come up until the end as that's the part of A-Rod's life that's still being written. It could also mention his wife, upcoming child, and the fact that he only missed one game in three years with the Rangers but had to miss four games with the Yankees because of the Boston brawl. ,Just thinking out loud here. --Feitclub 00:53, Sep 8, 2004 (UTC)

Did A-Rod really perform well in his first year with the Yankees? Although he put up good numbers by most player's standards, he did not perform at the same level as he had in the past. Based on the expectations of him, 2004 may be viewed as a disappointment. --HotRat 04:11, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

OK, a question on the spelling... I've seen many Rodriguezes spelled with an accented i, as in Rodríguez. According to my rusty High School Spanish skills, this is a redundant accent, as the default accented syllable in Spanish is the second-to-last. Is this a correct spelling or not? A &#1080; D &#1103; 01D TALK  EMAIL  04:34, Jun 12, 2005 (UTC)


 * In the absence of a having his birth certificate to hand I would say yes, I have never seen it spelled any other way in any publications. The Yankees spell it "Rodriguez" in all of their publications. Zerbey 00:08, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

On the spelling of Rodriguez' name: the rules of stress in Spanish are (among other things) that words that end in a consonant other than 'n' or 's' are stressed on the last syllable; if the stress is contrary to the rule, a written accent is placed over the vowel of the stressed syllable. The name 'Rodriguez' is stressed on the syllable before the next to the last syllable (thus violating the stress rule), so the written accent over the 'i', strictly speaking, would be necessary. I presume Rodriguez' name has been spelled without the accent simply as a way (however primitive it may be) of anglicizing it.Alloco1 21:57, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

He was born in New York City, and Spanish accents are not normally used on official documents. So he is officially Alex Rodriguez unless he changed his name officially, much as Jerry Garcia, born in San Francisco, never accented the i in his surname. In contrast, someone born in a Spanish-speaking country (let us say Mágglio Ordóñez, a native of Venezuela, or Iván Rodríguez, born in Puerto Rico), where records would have Spanish diacritics, should be identified with those diacritics in news reports and other such media, even of elements of their names are clearly non-Spanish, unless they clearly choose otherwise. Technically, rules of Spanish spelling would have him as Álex Rodríguez because x is a final consonant other than n or s and the a in Alex is accented -- even if Alex is an English nickname. --Paul from Michigan 06:00, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

You think it should be noteworthy to point out the current debate over which team A-Rod would represent in the upcoming World Baseball Classic? He has stated that he wants to play for the Dominican Republic team, but Bud Selig insists he play for the US team since he was born and raised in the US. (Chicobo329, not registered yet)


 * I also have problems with that section, especially as it relates to the career of Derek Jeter.


 * The Jeter-A-Rod controversy definitely deserves some exploration here, but not the seemingly gratuitous, very tendentious reference to Jeter's numbers, the inclusion of which is of dubious value, to be perfectly honest.


 * Also, as Jeter has pointed out, he has been booed-as late as last season-by fans at Yankee Stadium, so that section is arguably inaccurate, as well as being partisan in nature.

Ruthfulbarbarity 21:15, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Criticism section
The section seems to be one's POV (Who are these people that criticize him?) of his criticism. If this is in fact true (And is not consisted of original research), then adding sources would be recommended. Ohyeahmormons 19:23, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Teams better without him
I think its interesting for the casual reader to note how much better the teams win/loss record was after he left the Mariners and the Rangers. If no one sees fit to highlight this information, I w ill do it myself. ---Jackel 22:52, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

A-Rod's recent postseason performance
Without a doubt, the largest debate around a-rod is the fact that he has laid an egg in pressure post season spots for the yankees. It is important to include a few lines about this in the article. I have also cited a usa today article that touches on this.

I agree; unfortunately, I tried to do just that not long ago and it was deleted with the claim that it was vandalism and a violation of the NPOV policy, although the present article, with its rah-rah-rah, equally violates NPOV.Alloco1 15:40, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

I read your addition; it's clearly necessary; I hope Wikipedia doesn't (unwisely) delete it.Alloco1 16:44, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Someone edited my addition claiming that sample sizes were too small to make that claim. That is argumentative and doesn't belong in the article. It is, however, a FACT that many in NY and around the league perceive him as a "choker", and I have cited the article that supports that fact. Whether he is actually a choker or not, or whether sample sizes are too small to make that determination are opinions and arguments and not facts.

Infoboxes vs. Tables
I hate edit wars. But, if there's anything I hate more than edit wars, it's infoboxes. Why do people like these so much? The information isn't current, it's limited, and does not go with the general look for feel of Wikipedia. Check any American President article, and they have tables, not infoboxes. Any opinions? Take care baseball fans. Googie man 22:26, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

height
arod is 6`4. when he got into the mlb for his height and weight he was uber young..

if you look at the pics when he's next to arod.. he towers over him
 * That's original research. His published height is 6'3", so that's what goes into the article. Kafziel 00:50, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Copy Editing
There's no reason why an article on this subject should have this tag (other than expected repeated vandalism and POV problems). I did a bit of an overhaul today to make it sound a little more encyclopedic. Hopefully that tag can come down soon. Wencer 22:12, 4 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm going to give it copyediting in this article a try as well. Since I am no baseball fan, I think I can copyedit this article with a NPOV. I'll see what I can do. BrianZ 22:23, 8 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I removed the copyedit tag as I thoroughly went through the article. However, some fact finding work can still be provided. I looked for reference on his thoughts on his father, under biography, and never found a source, but I did find ESPN.com articles with this text which is why I chose "cited from.." instead of actually referencing the site. BrianZ 23:40, 8 June 2006 (UTC)


 * The copy-edit tag apparently went back up, but I agree that it is thoroughly copy-edited, so I removed it again. Natalie 22:27, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

"Criticism" edits
__

There is an error in the Criticism section. Alex Rodriguez was not playing for the New York Yankees when they played the Diamondbacks in the World Series, so there is no way that he could have struggled in that series. He also could not have struggled in the 2003 playoffs against the Red Sox because he was still playing for the Texas Rangers. __

Hi, this is 24.215.152.80. I moved the "However, Rodríguez's postseason numbers are statistically indistinguishable from his regular-season record" line back down to the bottom of the section. This is because Rodriguez's final 2004 ALCS statistics *ARE* substantially different from his career numbers (.307 vs. .258 avg, .577 vs. .516 slg.).

It's the overall body of Rodriguez's postseason line that's the same as his regular-season numbers. In individual series, he's hit .133 and he's hit .421. Fixing the sentence in the specific context of NY's 2004 collapse is, I think, both statistically and rhetorically misleading. Hope this works for everyone. ___

I added the following to make the criticisms less biased and to put them more into perspective. I believe it is even-handed, cites evidence, and helps actually inform an individual who has no idea who rodriguez is.

"Of course, these criticisms arose after he signed the highest paying contract in sports' history and worsened after his trade to the Yankees. Rodriguez has had several MVP caliber seasons, several clutch postseason performances (including the only hit in Roger Clemens' ALCS record 15 strikeout games, being a key factor in defeating the Minnesota Twins in the 2004 ALDS, leaving the Seattle Mariners as a career .357 postseason hitter, while his current postseason average is a mere .305).  Meanwhile, infamously great postseason hitters have comparable statistics, such as Derek Jeter (Mr. November) has a career postseason .307 batting average, Reggie Jackson (Mr. October) has a career .278 batting average, David Ortiz, a large reasons for the Red Sox' recent prowess has a .301 postseason batting average, and the Atlanta Braves' Chipper Jones' .288 postseason batting average. Only David Ortiz has a higher postseason slugging percentage and Chipper Jones a higher postseason on-base percentage.

Nonetheless, Rodriguez often comes across as a pretentious individual. Often, he acts humble (such as lobbying for Ken Griffey Junior to win the 1996 AL MVP over himself, claiming that David Ortiz was neck-and-neck in the 2005 MVP race while Ortiz claimed he was a superior player, blaming himself for the Yankees' 2005 postseason loss), and often does not degrade other players publicly. However, he often directly or indirectly, makes excuses for his inability to perform up to his fans' and detractors' expectations in order to deflect criticism from himself. For example, his mother blamed his 2005 ALDS woes on the death of his beloved uncle. In the 2006 season, he blamed his June defensive and offensive swoon on coming back to the lineup too soon after a stomach virus, while it was actually a mechanical flaw in his swing that was responsible. Furthermore, he blamed his offensive decline in 2003 on the Texas Rangers' inability to compete in the AL West. Another such example of Rodriguez's publioc pretentiousness was his desire not to play in the World Baseball Classic, because of his dual-citizenship to two countries (the Dominican Republic and the United States). After media criticisms, he opted to play for the United States. Consistently, the result of his attempts to deflect criticism only magnifies their validity. However, being the highest paid player on the highest paid team definitely does not help how a player looks to the public and it goes without saying that Rodriguez's superficial flaws are no less apparently in many other players with much better reputations."

It should be noted that

(1) perfomances by batters in post-season play ordinarily fall short of their season-long standards. In 2006 one should reasonably expect any Yankees player to have a lower batting average, on-base percentage, and slugging average because of the pitchers that they will face. I write this before the 2006 playoffs, but I figure that A-Rod will face either the Detroit Tigers or the Minnesota Twins, teams with the best and second-best ERAs in the American League. (Third this year are the Angels). The A's have the fourth-lowest team ERA, but of course A-Rod will be spared the team with the fifth-best team ERA -- his own Yankees.

It's no fluke that teams with the 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 5th best AL ERAs will be in the playoffs. Those are not the teams against which one inflates one's batting record. Those teams all have good pitching and defense, so they give up far fewer cheap hits and slightly fewer home runs. That's the way things always have been; post-season baseball has been a showcase of great pitchers. Look at the list of starting pitchers in those games, and you will see lots of Sandy Koufax, Bob Gibson, Warren Spahn, Whitey Ford, Jim Palmer, Lefty Grove, Christy Matthewson, John Smoltz, Catfish Hunter, Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez... that's what all Yankee batters face in the post-season, and it's not only A-Rod who gets to face them. This year's Detroit Tigers, Minnesota Twins, and Oakland A's are no bargains for any hitter to face. What did you expect this year in the playoffs -- the Royals to hit .350 against? If he crushed such a bad team, he's be lost in the crowd of players who hit two homers in 10-3 blowouts.

But what the heck? He could hit .260 with one home run against the Detroit Tigers in each of three pitchers' duels and be the Big Hero because it's tough to hit .250 against the 2006 Tigers, and nobody does as well.

It gets worse for hitters; A-Rod, or any other Yankee, will face the best pitchers on those teams.

(2) A-Rod is now 31. He is certifiably a great player, but as a rule all groups of baseball players peak in overall value around age 27, remain at such a level until about 30, and then go into decline. Injuries typically become more common and severe, so playing time as a rule goes down. A-Rod is in the group (Hank Aaron, Willie Mays, Ken Griffey Jr., Barry Bonds, Joe DiMaggio, Cal Ripken, Jr., Stan Musial, George Brett) that declines more slowly and remains above-average players until they are 35 or so if they take care of themselves. It is safe to say that we have seen him at his best, and that we can expect his batting average and power statistics to taper off, and for him to lose range in the field. So says Bill James about other players of the past; the decline is far sharper for players of lesser talent.

--Paul from Michigan 16:34, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

"24 Kids" quote
It seems like this should be mentioned somewhere, but I'm not sure where to put it.

When Rodriguez requested a trade from the Rangers, he mentioned that “I would have never gone to Texas if they had told me, ‘Alex, it's going to be you and 24 kids.’ Never. For no amount of money”, even after saying that one of the reasons he decided to sign with Texas was its up and coming players. link here Ebryns427 15:46, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Save A-Rod?

 * I'm not sure if this is worth mentioning-at least, not at this moment-but it might merit inclusion sometime in the future, depending upon developments.


 * Fernando Mateo, of livery cab fame, has just created a pro-Rodriguez website.


 * http://savearod.com/

Ruthfulbarbarity 21:17, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Clarification
Just for the record, I believe Fernando Mateo's fine site is called http://cheerarod.com/. The one mentioned above, http://savearod.com/, is mine. Rich in Jax.


 * My mistake.


 * Thanks for the edification.

Ruthfulbarbarity 23:25, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

What I don't understand is why there is a criticisms section in the first place? I don't see one for Jim Thome, Babe Ruth and Hank Aaron. Mglovesfun 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Criticisms section
Any votes for deleting the criticisms section?

Delete (1)

Keep (1) - It would be nonsense to delete this, A-Rod scruitinised more than any other baseball player. Zerbey 03:36, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Keep per Zerbey, but a careful edit is needed to remove POV and original research. Michael Greiner 04:02, 24 August 2006 (UTC) Delete I think it needs to be shortened drastically but should be in there. I just think his failures should be highlited less - baseball players fail at best 75% of the time, so it's pretty much a waste of time to highlight many of them, despite it being a gleeful pasttime of most baseball fans when they are attempting to criticize their superstar

Keep, at least for now, knowing that some revisions are sure to be made. --Paul from Michigan 16:39, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

24.215.152.197 23:47, 28 August 2006 (UTC)It would be foolish to have an article on Billy Martin that only talked about his .550 winning percentage without mentioning the attendant controversies. It would be foolish to have an article on Terrell Owens that only talked about his fine performance in Super Bowl 39, but ignored his public persona. It's true that much of the A-Rod criticism is inane and unjustified, but it does exist and it appears to have impacted both Rodriguez and the Yankees. The "Criticism" section contains enough quotes and data supporting Rodriguez to rebut the premise, for those who disagree with it. And the non-encyclopedic "A-Rod made two errors today"-type additions that have littered this entry lately can always be deleted.
 * Oh, it "appears" that way, does it? Well, let's shove it into the article forthwith. Woodshed 03:15, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

24.215.152.197 04:37, 31 August 2006 (UTC)Yeah, it "appears" that way. Especially when explicit analysis "appears" all over the media, and Yankee management and players, including Rodriguez himself, "appear" before the press to talk about it.

Keep. It give some people something to do. --Epeefleche 01:18, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Epeefleche edits & reverts
24.215.152.197 04:37, 31 August 2006 (UTC)I trimmed the intro because those are supposed to be concise, because the statistical marks listed appear elsewhere in the article, and because it's not top-of-the-page noteworthy that (for example) he's won 1 batting title or won 2 Gold Gloves.

I condensed the batting splits you provided and moved them to a more organic spot in the article. When you reverted, you actually made the information appear twice within the same section. It's still there, don't worry.

Looks good to me.

What do you think about the jack o lantern revert on ethnicity. he keeps on following me around wiki. any bio i edit that has ethnicity in the first line (e.g., sandy koufax as a jewish american), he deletes. thats how he came to take the dominican out of the first line here .............

--Epeefleche 01:17, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Citation request
24.215.152.197 06:15, 1 September 2006 (UTC)I won't remove it twice, but anyone who really needs a hard source to prove either that Rodriguez has been called the game's best player, or that his slumps have been inordinately discussed, may want to try typing the phrase "Alex Rodriguez" into Google.
 * Maybe you should do that, find an article, and cite it. Or you could mewl on a talk page. Whichever you prefer. Woodshed 08:59, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Despite
This may sound silly, but the work "Despite" appears 8 times in this article. Can someone take a crack at doing a bit of rewriting? I would step in, but it looks like there is a bit of history here and I haven't been a regular contributor at this page, so I don't want to break any previously achieved consensus. --After Midnight 0001 02:55, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Lucrative contract
I've removed this phrase:

The record for largest sports contract has since been surpassed by British footballer David Beckham;

There's no source, and it contradicts the opening paragraph. As far as I can find out, Beckham's most lucrative contract, with Adidas, is well under $200 million - see http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_50/c3912009_mz003.htm. But I'm happy to be contradicted if anyone knows otherwise...

"Happily" married
What's the use of the adverb there? Wouldn't just "married" suffice? I think it's an unnecessary addition that might open the door for similar edits of either positive or negative adverbs.--SlightlyInsane 20:14, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

sic?
Why is there a "(sic)" after the word "gotten"? "Gotten" is correct--even preferred--American English. There's an interesting discussion here: http://www.bartelby.com/64/C003/0144.html 64.32.228.161 00:28, 15 October 2006 (UTC)MikeTrutt

At-Bat Walk-up Tune
Looking on the page for the single of "Numb/Encore" by Linkin Park feat. Jay-Z, in the trivia section it says ""Numb/Encore" is the walk-up song for New York Yankees third baseman Alex Rodriguez." and yet on this page, is says "Missy Elliott's "Lose Control" is the song played before his at-bats in Yankee Stadium." 71.195.85.110 14:56, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
 * As it says in the article, Lose Control is just "one of the songs" played before he enters the game. Anyway, Numb/Encore should also be mentioned since it is also stated at List_of_baseball_entrance_music. I'll add the references for both items. Thanks for bringing it up. Nish kid  64  23:45, 4 November 2006 (UTC)