Talk:Alexander (cocktail)

Page seems to be incorrect
This should be a gin cocktail but does not mention gin in its ingredients, and instead lists the ingredients for the variant Brandy Alexander which links here saying it is different.
 * I don't know when this comment was left, but see the section 'This article is a mess!' below. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 06:55, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Actually this page was originally about gin Alexander but now it's been replaced. Look at the history, perhaps. (Random bypasser) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:14BA:A88F:B900:9890:1C83:19CC:232E (talk) 21:08, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Anyone visiting this article as an editor should be aware it is about the official IBA alexander cocktail. —¿philoserf? (talk) 22:07, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Redirect, not delete
Hello. I have finished transferring the essence of this article to List of cocktails. Instead of deleting it, I would recommend the following redirect instead:

Thanks! --Willscrlt 09:10, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

There is a song "Brandy Alexander" by Ron Sexsmith --SPDSchleswig-Holstein (talk) 11:35, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

This article is a mess!
Firstly, the section 'Variations' is confused: Brandy Alexander isn't a variation of Alexander, it is Alexander. Cognac is a (grape) brandy that just happens to be made in the designated Cognac region (yes, there is a bit more to it than that, but once you cut through the marketing hype and regional pride etc., that's what it boils down to). And especially in a mixed drink like this, thick with liqueur and cream, very few if any drinkers could tell whether the brandy used to make the concoction is cognac or some other grape brandy. So to say that Brandy Alexander is a variation because it uses brandy rather than cognac is nonsense. And indeed, if you look at the article on Brandy Alexander, the recipe there is identical. (For that reason, I think the articles should be merged.)

Secondly, it seems there were earlier those two (perhaps more?) drinks by the same name, as described in the 'Earliest citations' section (and also mentioned in 'Variations'): the whiskey-based one of which has nothing whatsoever to do with the (Brandy) Alexander; and although the second, gin-based one does share two of the three ingredients, it's also quite a different drink. In other words, they have little or nothing to do with the Alexander in this article, except the name — which begs the question, why are they covered so extensively, or why are they here at all?

Thirdly, one of the more notable actual variations, the Coffee Alexander, does not substitute coffee liqueur for the gin (seeing as there is no gin in the Alexander!), but for the creme de cacao; hence, instead of the drink having a chocolate flavour, it has a coffee flavour. (This confusion with the gin probably arises from one of the 'early Alexanders' being a gin-based drink, although even there it wouldn't be the gin that gets substituted with coffee liqueur.)

Unless anyone objects, I'll rewrite the 'Variations' section, and de-emphasise the 'Earliest citations' one. But ultimately I would like to merge this article with the Brandy Alexander one, and include the early versions at most as a footnote (actual or proverbial) or get rid of them altogether. Views? -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 06:54, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Okay, I just went ahead and did that without waiting for objections! :) I think the article now reads better and is more factually correct. If anyone spots a problem, please comment below or just edit as needed. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 10:05, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

Merger proposal
I propose that Brandy Alexander is merged into this article. Whether or not the Alexander can be made with gin (that is claimed in the Brandy Alexander article, but I'm doubtful), the fact remains that it is usually made with brandy/cognac per the IBA official recipe, and therefore for all intents and purposes the Alexander-made-with-brandy is synonymous with the Brandy Alexander. Hence, no need to have two articles with so much overlap in scope. Views? -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 10:11, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Isn't Brandy Alexander the common name? Spudlace (talk) 00:20, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Alexander was invented with gin. However, Alexander is from cognac (or gin for purist) and creme de cacao and cream, while brandy variant is made from brandy, chocolate liquor and cream. So one can say that Alexander is Brandy Alexander, but not the opposite: there are other chocolate liquors than creme de cacao, and brandy is not strictly equal to cognac. Some sources even call Brandy Alexander as Alexander №2. Macuser (talk) 15:39, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Ok, merge into this article then. Spudlace (talk) 15:49, 30 September 2020 (UTC)


 * Oppose as presented The Brandy Alexander article predates this one by several years, is substantially longer, and appears to be better sourced (although I'm not an expert). If the claim is simply that the two articles are redundant, and the direction was decided arbitrarily based on the optimal title, then this article should be merged in there and an RM should be opened to change the title of the other article. That said, this article's lead currently implies the two are synonymous, and per WP:NATURALDIS parenthetical disambiguation is not preferred. Hijiri 88 ( 聖やや ) 08:48, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Brandy Alexander has more sources but with citations to eatocracy and imdb it's certainly not "better sourced". Any unreliable sources can be sorted by editor who does the merger. I was confused by the way the lede was written as well, but if Brandy Alexander is the variant version, taking on good faith the discussion of other contributors made here on talk, we would merge into the broader article. Spudlace (talk) 00:07, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
 * No, if the topics are redundant then we merge into the article that was created first, and maybe change its title. Hijiri 88 ( 聖やや ) 00:51, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
 * The editors here have said that they are not redundant. I have taken their contributions on good faith. Do you have reason to believe otherwise? Spudlace (talk) 01:00, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
 * If they are not redundant, why the merger proposal? Not being familiar with this topic, my concern is simply a procedural one that, lacking exceptional circumstances, the longer page history should be given precedence, and any rewriting and/or changing of the article title can be dealt with separately, as happened here. Hijiri 88 ( 聖やや ) 10:41, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Support I hadn't thought about preserving the page history. Merger was proposed for a trivial variant where the primary spirit (gin) is swapped out (for brandy). We wouldn't merge Bloody Mary into Bloody Geisha, but we can just change the title after the merge like Hijiri 88 suggested. Spudlace (talk) 07:05, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose Alexander is the one that needs to go. Brandy Alexander came out in 1911 three years before the Alexander. Also if you type brandy alexander in the search bar Wikipedia knows what you are searching for.--2601:3C5:8200:97E0:30C4:E00F:93F7:4A89 (talk) 06:25, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
 * You may be right, many popular drinks were originally made with gin, but no reliable sources have been shown so far that the Brandy Alexander was one them. Spudlace (talk) 06:37, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Oppose: These are not the same drinks. —¿philoserf? (talk) 02:32, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

Brandy vs gin
The real problem here is that IBA calls the drink made with brandy an "Alexander", and does not list the one made with gin. But on Wikipedia we use the traditional terminology and call the gin one an "Alexander" and the brandy one a "Brandy alexander". This leads to such confusion as the infobox in this article (the gin one) listing brandy as the main ingredient.

It seems to me we should merge them, but that's been rejected. I'm not sure how to proceed. GA-RT-22 (talk) 21:08, 23 October 2022 (UTC)