Talk:Alexander Cambridge, 1st Earl of Athlone

Right Honourable
Doesn't this former GG of Canada had the title the Right Honourable due to the fact that he was a member of the Privy Council?


 * Yup, and the fact that he was an Earl. Proteus (Talk) 22:21, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Governor General Union of SA 1931 Flag.png
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BetacommandBot (talk) 22:37, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

blazon

 * Quarterly, 1 and 4 the arms of Prince Adolphus, Duke of Cambridge, being the arms of King George III of the United Kingdom and Hanover with the addition of a label of three points argent, charged on the centre point with a cross gules and on each outer point with two hearts also gules; 2 and 3 the arms of Francis, Duke of Teck; overall a crescent sable for difference.

I tried to add the above, and the picture vanished. —Tamfang (talk) 18:39, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Lead
Given that two editors have not yet been able to give edit summaries that are comprehensive and without contemptuousness, it's difficult to know what the actual issue is. Yesterday, I raised this problem at User talk:Masalai. It appears one supposed problem is mention of London's wider location; oddly, neither United Kingdom nor England seem to suffice. Yet, WP:OBVIOUS says that we should be... well, obvious, as it may not be to others. The other issue seems to be mention of the shared nature of the Royal Family to which Athlone belonged; something was said about "parochial hicks" in an edit summary, but that hardly makes clear what exactly is offensive to cosmopolitan Canadians. -- Ħ   MIESIANIACAL  19:58, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Surely WP:OBVIOUS also covers the issue of Britain's monarch being shared by the other Commonwealth countries which have not abolished the monarchy.Masalai (talk) 06:54, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * That isn't really relevant to the topic of conversation. -- Ħ   MIESIANIACAL  13:07, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Masalai's version looks much better to me. London without modifier is London, especially since we call him British (in that version of the article.  The "Canadian Royal Family" business is still as dubious as the last time somebody brought that up.  It's bad enough there has to be that ridiculous, OR-filled section at Monarchy in Canada; do we now have to bring it into every article on a member of the royal family?  The contention that there is a distinct "Canadian royal family" which is distinct from the "British royal family" is incredibly dubious.  Unless you can find a source which calls Athlone, specifically, a member of the "Canadian royal family" including that term here is OR.  It's worth noting, though, that Athlone was not, strictly speaking, a member of the British royal family.  His wife was, and his sister was, and his mother was, but he was technically just a relative of the royal family.  I'm not sure how this would best be indicated in the article, though - to all intents and purposes he was effectively a member of the royal family. john k (talk) 14:41, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It's about nomenclature. The first step towards a correct and neutral end is to have those making arrogant calls of ridiculousness and OR (along with all the attendant implications of bad faith) actually back up their attitude with something of substance that refutes the existence of the term “Canadian Royal Family”. Then, it's a matter of working out how to impartially make mention of what family Athlone was a part of. Unless it can be proven otherwise, after 1931 the group was no longer purely British. -- Ħ   MIESIANIACAL  15:32, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * An accusation of OR does not constitute an accusation of bad faith. OR can be a tricky concept, and people can certainly engage in it without realizing that they are doing so.  At any rate, it is not enough to demonstrate the existence of the term "Canadian Royal Family."  It is not even enough to demonstrate that the term "Canadian Royal Family" was used in Athlone's lifetime (which I do not believe it was).  You have to demonstrate that Athlone himself was actually called a member of the Canadian royal family.  If you can't do that, then it's original synthesis, which is OR. john k (talk) 16:31, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * "Ridiculous and OR filled" implies either bad faith or rampant stupidity; either way, it's an indelicate way to approach a subject. Regardless, in this case, the term "British Royal Family" is misleading: was Athlone part of a family foreign to the countries for which he was viceroy? This is a case of common terminology creating a false impression. -- Ħ   MIESIANIACAL  17:22, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * My apologies for approaching the subject bluntly, I meant no disrespect. The question you ask is a very idiosyncratic one.  Do you have any sources which address it directly, either in the South African or the Canadian case?  If not, it's really not one that the article should get into. Common terminology does not create a false impression here.  Athlone was British, the son of a German who spent most of his adult life in England and an English woman who was born in Germany to an English father and a German mother.  He had never, so far as I can tell, been to Canada prior to his service as Governor-General, and had only been to South Africa as part of his military service.  He was seen as another British governor-general, rather than a Canadian one - Vincent Massey is normally called the first Canadian governor-general.  I don't see what useful purpose is served by emphasizing the questionable contention that he was a Canadian. john k (talk) 17:55, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * This matter does not seem to revolve around Athlone himself, only the term used to define the family he belonged to (though, have we yet established that he was indeed a member of it?). "British Royal Family", as common as the term may be, infers a dynasty that is uniquely British, which we know was not the case by at least 1931. All I believe is required is some simple way to clarify what exactly "British Royal Family" means in this context; the phrasing "shared British and Canadian Royal Family" was merely my attempt to do so, within the bounds of WP:V. -- Ħ   MIESIANIACAL  18:14, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Do we know that? We know that the monarch was not uniquely British after 1931, I suppose (although the point is a pretty pedantic one).  We do not know that the royal family was.  At any rate, I think I'm going to see if we can escape this by removing the claim that he was a member of the British royal family - he was not, really, just a relative of them. john k (talk) 18:23, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Name to be used in the article
For anyone who thinks he needs to be referred to as "Cambridge" throughout the article, I refer you to WP:SURNAME, which says the following:

The person may be referred to by given name in the case of royalty, or as "Prince John", "Princess Jane", "The Duke," "The Earl," "The Duchess," "The Countess," etc. For other subjects, it is preferable to refer to the person by surname, not given name, even if the subject is not controversial. The use of the given name gives the impression that the writer knows the subject personally, which, even if true, is not relevant.

A member of the nobility may be referred to by title if that form of address would have been the customary way to refer to him or her; for example Robert Dudley, 1st Earl of Leicester may become "the Earl of Leicester" or just "Leicester" in subsequent mentions. Be careful not to give someone a title too soon; for example, one should use "Robert Dudley" or "Dudley" when describing events prior to his elevation to the peerage in 1563.

Calling the subject of this article "Alexander" or "Prince Alexander" before 1917 and "Athlone" or "Lord Athlone" or "the Earl of Athlone" afterwards fits this guideline precisely. My changes were not in contravention of MoS. john k (talk) 18:15, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Sharing
To my surprise, I find that Alexander Cambridge was a relative of the shared British and Canadian royal family. What rubbish is this? Is there a Canadian royal family, perhaps? --Pete (talk)


 * Presumably it's the family of the Queen of Canada. —Tamfang (talk) 00:27, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

it was a busy year

 * In 1904, he married Princess Alice and rose in the military ranks through his service in African campaigns and the First World War, receiving numerous honours and decorations, including elevation to the peerage as Earl of Athlone, after he had relinquished his German title of Prince of Teck in the Kingdom of Württemberg.

He did all that in 1904? —Tamfang (talk) 20:31, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
 * apparently thinks he did. —Tamfang (talk) 07:12, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

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FA President
He was President of the Football Association between 1939 and 1955 and this is shown in the box at the bottom of the page. However, there is no mention in the actual article, which there should be. I realise it's probably a minor point given the rest of the man's life though. Would this count as an Appointment? Nzd  (talk)  15:23, 2 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I've added a bit in as prose. I've had a little trouble finding reliable sources online and the section on the FA page is unsourced. If that page is correct, he was succeeded by Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh in 1955 and the position has been filled by members of the Royal Family ever since.. Nzd   (talk)  13:20, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

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