Talk:Alexander H. Stephens

Untitled
Opening the page. Does anyone have any ideas about further improvements? Ezratrumpet 06:09, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Alexander Stephenson's lineage:

Daughter > Hazel Stephenson married to Ashley Epley

Grandsons> George Epley married To Susanne and James Epley married to Gladys Snowden McKillip "Betty"

Great Grandchildren> Jennifer Lynn Epley married to Steve Sclafani with the children Hailey Elizabeth Scalfani and Allie May Sclafani~ Lawrence Allen Epley married Jane Ellen Myers* with children Taylor Paige Epley and Marissa Brook Epley


 * Jane Myers has since then been widowed and remarried.

''None of this is correct. . . Alexander Stephens (not "Stephenson") never married and had no direct decendents.''Tom (talk) 10:01, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

For purposes of template management, I think that this page should reflect Stephens as V-P of the CSA rather than as a US Congressman. Ezratrumpet 04:57, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Any objections to removing this sentence as unnecessary? "It seems, he had never been barred from federal office by law, in contrast to Jefferson Davis." Ezratrumpet 12:42, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Lineage? You have the wrong man. Alexander H Stephens was a life-long bachelor and left no heirs. Please correct.

Height
Stephens was 4'11, a notable height- it should be mentioned- thats freakishly small.

Men were shorter in general in those days. Alec Stevens at 4'11 would have been like Michael J. Fox today -- notably small but hardly a dwarf. Cranston Lamont 01:12, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

''I don't know where this information came from, but it's completely erroneous. Stephens was 5'7" tall, which, since he weighed only 96 pounds at his heaviest, still rendered him a freakish physical specimen. I wrote the 1988 biography of Stephens, so I know what I'm talking about.''Tom (talk) 09:52, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Provisional Vice President of the CSA & Vice President of the CSA
Stephens was Provisional VP of the CSA: February 18, 1861 to February 22, 1862, then VP of the CSA: February 22, 1862 to May 10, 1865. This should be shown in the Infobox. GoodDay 21:10, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Softly, softly approach
They let this guy run for the Senate after the war. No wonder it took a hundred years to get to grips with civil rights. They should have chopped off his head.

Various fixes applied
Removed "Traitor" from nationality. That is out of place polemic.

Taylor did not actually block the Compromise of 1850. The Presidencies of Zachary Taylor & Millard Fillmore by Elbert B. Smith refutes this legend.

Deleted extended quotes and discussion of Cornerstone Speech, which has its own article.

Many style tweaks (Representative for "congressman". etc).

--Rich Rostrom (Talk) 21:21, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Technically President
Would it be true to say that Stephens was technically President of the Confederacy for six days given that Jefferson had relinquished that office six days earlier?--The Shadow Treasurer (talk) 06:25, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I too, am wondering about that. GoodDay (talk) 15:04, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Moving this article to Alexander H. Stephens
This is the case for moving this article, Alexander Stephens, to Alexander H. Stephens. I do not expect this to be controversial, but I shall go into detail regardless.

According to WP:COMMONNAME:

"Articles are normally titled using the most common English-language name of the person or thing that is the subject of the article. In determining what this name is, we follow the usage of reliable sources, such as those used as references for the article."

It is easy to establish that Stephens is most commonly referred to with his middle initial (i.e., Alexander H. Stephens), and not without it (i.e., Alexander Stephens, the present name of this article).

Observe all of the references used in the article which make use of his name:


 * Rudolph R. von Abele, Alexander H. Stephens: A Biography (1946)
 * Henry Cleveland, Alexander H. Stephens in Public and Private, with Letters and Speeches (1866)
 * William C. Davis, The Union that Shaped the Confederacy: Robert Toombs & Alexander H. Stephens (2002)
 * Richard Malcolm Johnston & William Hand Browne, Life of Alexander H. Stephens (1878).
 * Louis Pendleton, Alexander H. Stephens (1908)
 * Thomas E. Schott, Alexander H. Stephens of Georgia: A Biography (1988)

Without fail, they all use the middle initial. Another source, Trent's Southern Statesmen of the Old Régime, also uses the initial, its fifth chapter being entitled "Alexander H. Stephens and Robert Toombs". If necessary, additional reliable sources could be mentioned&mdash;e.g., Britannica.

A search engine test is also decisive. With the search "restrict[ed] the results to pages written in English, and exclud[ing] the word 'Wikipedia, per WP:COMMONNAME, the results are 800,000 for Alexander H. Stephens and 83,400 for Alexander Stephens. With some additional phrases to eliminate any false positives, the count is 97,900 for Alexander H. Stephens and 23,700 for Alexander Stephens.

I believe I have more than sufficiently justified the move, and shall now proceed to request the redirect Alexander H. Stephens be deleted. --darolew (talk) 05:55, 12 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Well done - a wise change. Ezratrumpet (talk) 05:09, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Small error that I can't fix: Unionist party?
Dear all,

There's a small error that's beyond my knowledge to fix. Currently the article reads: In 1851 he was re-elected as a Unionist, in 1853 as a Whig (from the 8th District),  and in 1855 and 1857 as a Democrat. The link for Unionist goes to the page for the Constitutional Union Party (United States)   Here's the problem: That Constitutional Union Party didn't exist in 1851. Possibly Stephens was involved with a different, earlier Constitutional Union Party which doesn't yet have a page. See the disambiguation page. Oaklandguy (talk) 21:02, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

POV - This article is not at all neutral. it is embellishing Stephens
This article in general isnt neutral at all. It colors wherever it is possible simply by using positively connoted vocabulary. Instead of saying "the newspaper characterizes him as intelligent..." this article presents the flattering characterization (which comes from an award show) as if it was an objective fact. His widely known speech "about the natural condition of negroes" becomes "famous", though if not simply "widely known" actually "infamous" would be more correct. This sentence on top: "Nevertheless, he was brave, determined and hard-working." Does that have anything to with neutrality? It is as encyclopadical as if the article would say he was lazy, greedy misanthrope, because he defended slavery. But that is apologized by claiming it was "rationale" (= a logic(!) arguement!) and based on common views of that time. Actually very many (especionally modern and intelligent people) people had a different view and he simply had to justify economic interests. That of course is POV too. It is not in the actual article and the things mentioned above don´t belong there at all too! 77.188.129.228 (talk) 00:55, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay, I took that bit out. IronDuke  00:51, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Agreed. That one sentence was hardly the only offense.  There's also unsourced statements like this:
 * While his voice was described as shrill and unpleasant, at the beginning of the Civil War a Northern newspaper described him as "the Strongest Man in the South" because of his intelligence, judgment, and eloquence. His generosity was legendary; his house, even when he was governor of Georgia, was always open to travelers or tramps, and he personally financed the education of over 100 students, black and white, male and female. So prodigious was his charity, that he died virtually penniless.
 * I mean, come on. The bolded statements are NPOV and unverifiable even if they could be sourced.  In any case, the whole "Early Life and Career" section is more hagiographic than encyclopedic. Niremetal (talk) 18:17, 8 June 2011 (UTC)


 * This passage and others were added by User:Baysage in a series of edits made in March 2008.  Baysage is the editor who signed his comments above as "Tom"; he identifies himself on his user page as "Thomas E. Schott (Ph.D., LSU, 1978) American historian, concentration in Civil War and Reconstruction, author of Alexander H. Stephens of Georgia: A Biography (Baton Rouge, 1978)" (see  for Worldcat's info on the book).  Unfortunately, Tom seems to have disappeared from Wikipedia following that spate of edits.


 * The book is well-reviewed in The Journal of American History, ("Schott deserves congratulations for providing a long overdue and valuable study. This volume will be the standard biography of Alexander H. Stephens for years to come.")   (Interestingly, one criticism made in the review is "Like most books, this volume is not without flaw. Readers may... wonder if [Schott] does not feel obligated at times to be overly critical of his subject..."; the opposite of the problem here).  Based on this, I assume it could be a valuable and reliable source.


 * If anyone has access to the book (the Worldcat link above will help you find copies in local libraries), perhaps he or she can use it to extract and support the purely factual material (e.g. "he was in poverty at the time of his death") while cutting back on the NPOV (e.g., "So prodigious was his charity, that he died virtually penniless."). TJRC (talk) 21:40, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

IP Edit not vandalism
An IP editor removed, without explanation, two paragraphs of unsourced material. The material was restored by an editor who assumed, in good faith I assume, that this action was vandalism. In fact, the material removed should have been removed. It claimed, among other things, that the U.S. President had been put under house arrest, the Secretary of War was jailed, and the U.S. military overthrew civilian governments while the entire south was placed under military dictatorship.

This material goes beyond even an extreme Dunning School version of history. It does not belong in the article. It was added w/o explanation by another IP on May 3. Tom (North Shoreman) (talk) 20:05, 11 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Fair enough. TJRC (talk) 20:43, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Sentence doesn't' make sense
This sentence must be the result of some poorly targeted copy/paste/delete:

"During the convention he reminded his fellow delegates that Republicans were a minority in Congress (especially allowing northern states to nullify the Fugitive Slave Law with "personal liberty laws." " — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.149.67.121 (talk) 15:35, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

'A Constitutional View of the Late War Between the States'
This was his main post-war testament, justifying the Southern cause. A few words on its content and critical reception would be appropriate. Valetude (talk) 19:54, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

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Requested move 23 October 2017

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: not moved. Jenks24 (talk) 10:10, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Alexander H. Stephens → Alexander Stephens – I would have submitted this as uncontroversial, but I saw this was moved the opposite direction I am proposing in 2009/2010. I see sources, articles and books, that use the middle initial and others that do not. (For instance, ,,,) The middle initial is an unnecessary disambiguator, as there is no other notable "Alexander Stephens" or "Alexander Stevens". For simplicity's sake, I believe the middle initial should be dropped. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:58, 23 October 2017 (UTC) --Relisting.  Anarchyte  ( work  &#124;  talk )  08:01, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose per "oppose" arguments submitted at two concurrent discussions regarding the deletion of middle initials at Talk:Richard B. Spencer and Talk:Alan K. Simpson. A brief glance at the bottom of the article ("Bibliography" and "External links") proves conclusively that subject was known as "Alexander H." as does his graveside memorial at Find a Grave. &mdash;Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 08:31, 27 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose - the present title has a lead in an ngram search, suggesting it is the WP:COMMONNAME, including the middle H. &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 10:15, 7 November 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Foner ; Lincoln
Eric Foner (The Fiery Trial, p.153) briefly quotes an exchange of letters between Lincoln and Stephens possibly dated around December 1860, and characterizes Stephens as at the time still anti-secession. Was Stephens just representing himself so in the correspondence? ELSchissel (talk) 03:31, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Political party listing
The sidebar has Stephens listed as a "Democrat" from 1861 to 1883, despite his being obviously a member of the Confederacy, which had no political parties, so that date range is impossible.

Stephens status, in Feb 1861 & May 1865
Perhaps I'm looking to hard into this. But was Stephens provisional acting president of the Confederacy, from February 11 to 18, 1861 & later acting president of the Confederacy, from May 5 to 11, 1865? GoodDay (talk) 16:41, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

Party affiliations
The text of the article states:

"Stephens was re-elected from the 7th District as a Whig in 1844, 1846, and 1848, as a Unionist in 1851, and again as a Whig (from the 8th District) in 1853. In 1855 and 1857, his re-elections came as a Democrat."

The word "Unionist" links to the Constitutional Union Party, which did not exist until 1860. That is one problem. But, furthermore, the infobox states:

"Political party
 * Whig (1836–1851)
 * Unionist (1851–1860)
 * Constitutional Union (1860–1861)
 * Democratic (1861–1883)"

Here Unionist links to Unionist Party (United States), which is proper. (I will change it in a second.) But, here is the bigger problem, you see conflicting dates on political party affiliation. Was he a Dem in 1855? Or a Unionist? Was he a Whig in 1853 or a Unionist? Etc. (Or was Unionist an affiliation and not a distinct political party?)  TuckerResearch (talk) 17:45, 8 May 2023 (UTC)