Talk:Alexander Roslin

Untitled
Countess Mniszech - presumably Marina Mniszech?--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 20:36, 27 July 2007 (UTC) Marina Mniszech lived c. 1588 – 24 December 1614. if you mean that she was painted - not possible.Hafspajen (talk) 19:00, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

Spanish? artist?
Swedish and Spanish start with S both, but there is a difference. Hafspajen (talk) 18:02, 10 February 2014 (UTC) Venice Biennale

An outside view on article
I am in the process of reading this article; principally, I'll keep a low profile on actual edits,but use this section to enumerate points of improvement which looks essentially good to me. Whether principal editors choose to read, respond or heed what I write here is entirely up to them; only those edits I actually make are those I feel as sufficiently important (although not all of them will be argued about by me, only those I wish to argue for are included here!). The section will be ongoing, until I end it.
 * Edit made: You need citation on Stockholm as intellectual center since times of Christina!
 * DONE!Arildnordby (talk) 21:44, 24 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Non-edit: Source conflict on who invited Roslin In link (7), it is stated that Lewenthal invited R., whereas in link (8), it is said that the margrave invited R.Arildnordby (talk) 22:18, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
 * DONE!Arildnordby (talk) 21:44, 24 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Reference 10 ought to be removed at specific place As reference to sentences ending with "..he settled for the rest of his life", ref (10) simply does not contain the info of previous sentences, in contrast to ref (7), inserted by me. Thus at this particular place, ref (10) is just confusing, and unnecessary.Arildnordby (talk) 22:31, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
 * DONE!Arildnordby (talk) 21:44, 24 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Mess on family a) No relevant link with marriage date January 8. Only Ref (5) says six children, none say 3 sons and 3 daughters. MUST improve!!Arildnordby (talk) 22:47, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Children gender distr. ref'd, marriage date not.Arildnordby (talk) 23:26, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
 * DONE!Arildnordby (talk) 21:44, 24 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Token of friendship different than symbol of friendship! In article, it is said Peill painting is symbol of friendship; NOT contain in ref (14) at all, but ref (15) (confusingly placed) says painting is "token of friendship". Principal editors should reflect!Arildnordby (talk) 22:58, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
 * I've altered it to "token" and made clear that it's the frame that's inscribed and not the box- which is what I thought before I read the source. Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 07:42, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Peill was a Swedish tourist- is this worth adding? And is "tourist" too much of a neologism? Xanthomelanoussprog (talk) 13:16, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
 * a) Certainly debatable if "tourist information" is only by itself is worth including, but at another place in article, it is stated (yet unref'd) that Roslin had a network with visiting Swedes. Adding "tourist" at Peill para in article, as well as including this ref where the social networking of Roslin occurs fuse various claims made nicely together. b) Tourist is not a neologism, 18th century Europeans went on "The Grand Tour", and, for example, in 1798, William Fordyce Mavor published a book called The British Tourists, or the Traveller's Pocket CompanionArildnordby (talk) 19:03, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
 * NOT CRITICAL POINT in article evaluation!!Arildnordby (talk) 21:44, 24 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Messy reference structure on this paragraph! Here, I will sort out the various claims made within PRESENT refs, and gradually find, or "demand", referencing, for the following sentence: A number of portraits of Russian Imperial statesmen have been attributed to Roslin, including portraits of Ivan Betskoi and his sister Anastasia Ivanovna, and of Ivan Shuvalov. He also painted some notable portraits of Polish and French aristocratic ladies. He signed his works as Roslin Suédois. Stylistically, his paintings are Classicist in some respects, but primarily Rococo. The vast majority are of members from the European nobility and from leading political and cultural circles. Roslin was enormously successful among members of French high society, becoming one of the wealthiest artists of the era in France
 * TINY BLEMISH, not too important, in my view! Removal of discussion for laterArildnordby (talk) 21:44, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

sentences of interest
Can we ref these better? Or just remove the parts that are not fully-sourced, until after the DYK?


 * 1)  He was often surrounded by Swedish visitors to Paris, and assisted and advised travelling Swedish artists.
 * 2) In 1783 he contributed two paintings, a self-portrait and a portrait of the artist Anne Vallayer-Coster, the latter being shown for the first time to a wider audience.

, do the whole sentences need to be removed, or just the '1783' portion of the second? HTH. 74.192.84.101 (talk) 20:23, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
 * As for 1., one of the sources elsewhere (but not placed here), DO show that Roslin showed at least hospitality to the Grand Touring Swede Peiil. Including that will partially validate the (by itself perfectly credible) claim made on Roslin's hospitality/generosity (although I'd prefer an even better ref here). On 2., the 1783 claim, it is not at all supported in given ref on what happened on exhibition in 1783. BUT, one of the offline resources (the Bergström ref (2)), which I do not have access to, seems to be highly informative, and I assume the principal editors have the 1783 claim from there. Thus, I think I'll leave it, as yet, as a challenge to those editors with access to ref the 1783 claim better. I feel extremely reluctant to remove most likely true and uncontroversial content. But, even such material ought to be properly referenced.Arildnordby (talk) 20:32, 24 February 2014 (UTC)


 * "Have removed following claim": In 1783 he contributed two paintings, a self-portrait and a portrait of the artist Anne Vallayer-Coster, the latter being shown for the first time to a wider audience. None of the online sources support it, and definitely not the appended ref (25).Arildnordby (talk) 21:38, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

some possibly-wikiReliable quotes
Seem decently wp:rs to moi.


 * 1)  "Variants:  Alexandre..."
 * 2)  "Other painters of Swedish origin were Alexander Roslin, who worked throughout Europe..."
 * 3)  "Carolus Linnaeus, detail of a portrait by Alexander Roslin, 1775; in the Svenska …—Courtesy of the Svenska Porträttarkivet, Stockholm."
 * 4)  "...copies of portraits of Tsar Pavel I and his wife, Maria Fyodorovna, painted by the Swedish artist Alexander Roslin." (( the latvian 'whitehouse' ))

Borderline wp:rs because Olausson is a professor not just a museum employee.


 * 1)  http://www.litteraturmagazinet.se/magnus-olausson/alexander-roslin
 * 2)  http://www.nationalmuseum.se/sv/English-startpage/Exhibitions/Past-exhibitions-/Pride-and-Prejudice/Marie-Suzanne-Giroust-vs-Alexander-Roslin-who-was-the-better-artist/
 * 3)  http://www.nationalmuseum.se/sv/english-startpage/Collections/Painting/18th-century/The-Lady-with-the-Veil--/   (( "it is signed Roslin 1768" ))

Maybe wp:rs ... two editors are listed ... but has the taste of republished-press-release-material, to me.


 * 1)  http://artdaily.com/news/22776/The-Nationalmuseum-in-Stockholm-Presents-Alexander-Roslin---Sweden-s-Forgotten-Art-Icon
 * 2)  http://artdaily.com/news/66722/Sweden-s-Nationalmuseum-acquires-family-portrait-painted-in-1767-by-Alexander-Roslin

Mutual wp:aboutself, use with care.


 * 1)  "...portrait of Christian VII (1772)".
 * 2)  "Portrait of King Christian VII of Denmark." (( sale... has short bio ))
 * 3)  "...portraits of Tsarevich Paul... and his wife, Maria Fedorovna".  (( second cite is alumni newsletter, first cite published by museum ))
 * 4)  "Count Andrey Kyrillovich Razumovsky ... Anastasia Ivanova, Countess of Hessen-Honberg".
 * 5)  ((dead link, or at least, link-content messed up.  Putting here in case somebody can find an archived copy, or alternative link to follow.))

Not wp:rs stuff; avoid.


 * 1)  http://www.wired.com/underwire/2012/07/alt-text-carl-linnaeus/  (( parody slash humour... cites wikipedia, circular sourcing, do not use ))
 * 2)  http://www.epochtimes.se/articles/2007/12/22/13852.html  (( blog-monetization, similar to examiner.com... blog-authors have 100% responsibility.  Only print-editions are edited, and only then if they feel like doing it ("may" be "lightly" edited for wordcount mostly).  Just like examiner.com the blog-authors are paid by the click.  ))
 * 3)  http://www.thearttribune.com/Two-Paintings-by-Alexandre-Roslin.html   (( blog ))

HTH. 74.192.84.101 (talk) 21:59, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

After well-deserved promotion, what to be done?

 * First off, I have now managed to find a source for a claim that Roslin assisted Swedish artists arriving in Paris. Thus, essentially the following edit can be reverted: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Alexander_Roslin&diff=596972801&oldid=596965748
 * The relevant ref is "hand-lexicon". I leave the re-introduction of stricken sentence, and referencing to the principal editors.


 * On a longer time scale, it wouldn't hurt the article to be endowed with touches of Roslin's personality, if such can be found. One that CAN be found in one of the refs is his devastation at his wife's untimely death, the source saying he was practically unable to work. If other sources can be found to illuminate Roslin's personality, and qualities as a human being, that would be nice additions, I think.

Arildnordby (talk) 08:48, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Finally, the article has good points on Roslin's status as artist, in that being painted by Roslin was considered the high point of social esteem, and that he was the best paid artist. Could this be improved? If sources could be found on what Roslin was actually able to charge, and make good comparative statements, that could be a valuable addition.
 * Supportive of female painters According to this source (pages 11 and 28 in particular), Roslin is said to have particularly supportive of female painters; it was Roslin, for example, who made the formal nomination to the Academy of Adélaïde Labille-Guiard in 1783, and she was duly elected. From several sources it seems Roslin was instrumental in having his own wife elected as well. (should be checked??)Arildnordby (talk) 10:19, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Notable relative Wertmüller Adolf Ulrik Wertmüller was Roslin's cousin, and studied under him in Paris. See, for example, this source and separate Wertmüller Wikipedia page.Arildnordby (talk) 10:26, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Great Swedish resource! Oscar Levertin has in his 1899 work pages 35-48 a detailed biographical sketch, as well as evaluation of the paintings. Lots of dates here, personal connections and the staggering prices Roslin could charge. Principal editors might find much material here that can be regarded as reliable, Levertin was a highly regarded art historian who, in his Roslin sketch has dug deep into French archival material, as well as the biography of Roslin written by his daughter Augustine Suzanne, married to Carteron de Barmont.Arildnordby (talk) 10:57, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Lead section should have a hook!! A (minor) concern I have now is how a casual reader will skim the lead section, and think: "Why should I read about this obscure Swedish painter any further?" Now, if the lead section contains a sentence like this: "During his Paris years, Alexander Roslin became one of the best paid artists of his time, and having a portrait of oneself made by Roslin was considered the high point of social esteem".

Adding such a sentence in the lead section will make the casual reader understand that Roslin is notable, as being a principal painter during his own time. At the moment, the lead section could equally well refer to a run-of-the-mill painter from that time nobody, even back then, bothered about.Arildnordby (talk) 16:26, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

File:Alexander Roslin Konstnaren och hans hustru Marie S.jpg to appear as POTD soon
Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Alexander Roslin Konstnaren och hans hustru Marie S.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on November 20, 2016. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2016-11-20. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 02:20, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

Jean-Marc Nattier
Why is the gallery padded out with works by Jean Marc Nattier, a painter is not the subject of this article? Britmax (talk) 19:14, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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