Talk:Alexander Zakharchenko/Archive 1

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Category:Separatist forces of the war in Donbass
Until 28 March 2017, this article was in Category:Separatist forces of the war in Donbass. There is a discussion at Category talk:Separatist forces of the war in Donbass about what should be included in the category.-- Toddy1 (talk) 09:03, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

Russian proxy leader in Donetsk proclaims creation of new ‘state’
"The Russian-backed forces occupying part of Donetsk Oblast on July 18 proclaimed a new state “Malorossiya,” which they claim will “succeed Ukraine” as a state." Wikipietime (talk) 10:08, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

Assassinated by "Washington DC backed Assassins"
From the Article in it's current form:

"The Security Service of Ukraine suggests that Russia may be involved in the assassination."

However, this article attributes blame to "Washington DC backed Assassins"

https://europeansworldwide.wordpress.com/2018/08/31/putins-ukrainian-ally-assassinated/

Which seems strange to me since Zakharchenko is known to be a Putin ally. I think the Article should refrain from blaming anyone until more information is available.2605:6000:6947:AB00:7DC2:6829:634C:762D (talk) 20:20, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Blogs are not reliable sources.--Ymblanter (talk) 20:24, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Especially not white nationalist blogs. FiredanceThroughTheNight (talk) 04:25, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Wordpress is user generated content and not reliable sources. Anyone can say anything on a blog. Though I agree with your observation that it's "strange" that Russia would allegedly be involved in the assassination of its ally, this is not a forum to discuss that. Brendon the Wizard  ✉️ ✨ 22:44, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I think we should keep the finger pointing out of the lede for now, tbh. Currently it says the Kremlin did it. One of hte sources was Euromaidan press (I removed it). I'm not known to be a pro-Putin guy (I got called a "djigit" once) but I have policy doubts (WP:NPOV a big one) about this especially in the "too soon" sense. Thoughts, and ?--Calthinus (talk) 15:55, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I independently removed it (not seen this topic). That the guy was killed by Russians is an opinion (and this is an opinion of a state authority of a state which calls Russian an aggressor), meaning at the very least it is highly biased, or it is a fake. The opinion must not be in the lede at this stage and must be attributed.--Ymblanter (talk) 16:05, 2 September 2018 (UTC)

Why the article only names the fourth child
An editor questioned why the article only named the fourth child. The source cited was a news story about the birth of the fourth child. We can only add the names of his previous children if we find reliable sources that contain the information.-- Toddy1 (talk) 09:36, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I think their point is whether we need the name of the last child if we do not have the names of the other three children.--Ymblanter (talk) 09:37, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
 * That creates a circular situation, where if someone finds a source that dates before July 2015, it will not be able to name Alexander (because he had not be born yet), and therefore some can say that you cannot name the first three children because you have not named the fourth.-- Toddy1 (talk) 09:41, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I do not have a strong opinion here, just wanted to clarify.--Ymblanter (talk) 10:01, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
 * WP:BLPNAME says: The presumption in favor of privacy is strong in the case of family members of articles' subjects and other loosely involved, otherwise low-profile persons. The names of any immediate, former, or significant family members or any significant relationship of the subject of a BLP may be part of an article, if reliably sourced, subject to editorial discretion that such information is relevant to a reader's complete understanding of the subject. (bolding mine)
 * So the question is whether we have a specific reason to include the names of any of the children, even if we have a reliable source for them. Do the names of any or all of the children add anything to readers' understanding of Zakharchenko that is not covered simply by saying that he has four children? On a different note, I've removed the child's full date of birth per WP:DOB, which says to err on the side of caution for borderline notable people and just include the year. Marianna251TALK 12:48, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
 * There is no good reason to name the children. It could be notable that the youngest son has his father's name, but without a source this is non-existent notability. Kingsif (talk) 14:55, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I agree. I think we can keep the source because it confirms the number of Zakharchenko's children, but I don't see a reason to single out the fourth child, so I'll just delete the relevant sentence and leave the ref. Marianna251TALK 18:18, 2 September 2018 (UTC)

To my way of thinking (and I am biased), we should be aiming to make biographies of people like Zakharchenko as good as that for Winston Churchill. Evidently you disagree. I look forward to your implementing that same job you did for Zakharchenko on Barack Obama and Family of Barack Obama. But of course you won't.-- Toddy1 (talk) 08:58, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Churchill's children have independent notability, enough to warrant their own Wikipedia articles and warrant their mention in his article, as do Barack Obama's family. At this time, Zakharchenko's children do not. Instead of throwing aspersions at others, please try to assume good faith. Comment on content, not contributors. Marianna251TALK 12:27, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I am assuming good faith. I assumed that we just disagree.--  Toddy1 (talk) 12:28, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
 * By saying that I "evidently disagree" with your intent to make Zakharchenko's article as good as Winston Churchill's, and that "of course [I] won't" make similar edits to Churchill's article or those concerning the Obamas, you are saying that 1) you don't think I edited in good faith to make an improvement to Zakharchenko's article and 2) that I operate a double standard between Zakharchenko's article and others. Your comment was clearly meant as a negative comment directed at me. Please read WP:NPA and WP:ASPERSIONS. Marianna251TALK 12:35, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

Hawks?
In the responses section, there is this statement: "blaming the hawks within the Ukrainian government for the murder." The English version of that press release on the Kremlin website does not use the word "hawk". Can a Russian-speaking editor check the other link and see if the word hawk is used? Otherwise this seems pejorative and inappropriate.  A ir ♠C ombat Talk!  23:15, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Just a note -- if this IS actually quote, it needs to be quoted. If it's *not* an actual quote, it needs to be deleted, and quickly.  A ir ♠C ombat Talk!  23:18, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
 * No, it was not in source, I removed it.--Ymblanter (talk) 05:40, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

First sentence
The first sentence in the version of 23:43, 1 September 2018‎ was as follows:
 * Alexander Vladimirovich Zakharchenko (Алекса́ндр Влади́мирович Заха́рченко, Олекса́ндр Володи́мирович Заха́рченко; 26 June 1976 – 31 August 2018) was a separatist leader, who was the head of state and Prime Minister of the self-proclaimed state and a rebel group Donetsk People's Republic, which declared independence from Ukraine on 11 May 2014.

to make a quote''

The listed links I've provided are all indirectly related to the article's subject; they link to the warlords and leaders of the same republics; due to absence of decent navigation I believe it's beneficial to have them listed; you also may not justify removal by saying there is no article in the english wiki; you also have not specified which part of the WP:ALSO is applicable exactly so I ask you return back see also links. Thanks. <span style="font: 900 0.8em &quot;Lato&quot;"> DAVRONOV A.A. ✉ ⚑ 22:11, 21 July 2019 (UTC)
 * May I please suggest that you first read our manual of style? Also have a look at other biographioes, none of them has 20 items under SEEALSO. If these items are so important please integrate them into prose.--Ymblanter (talk) 05:42, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Specifically, SEEALSO says redlinks are not allowed, and the number of links must be reasonable. The best number of links to have is zerto, but now we have one link, which is a reasonable number. Twenty is unreasonable.--Ymblanter (talk) 05:57, 22 July 2019 (UTC)