Talk:Alexandra, Countess of Frederiksborg

=New=

Vote (combination of two move proposals)
Vote for as many options you like, by approval voting. If voting for option #3: please indicate what you mean by "Other"; and don't add any more options, unless the ones you name with your vote in option 3 (e.g. "keep as is or move to XXX or to YYY")

Longer comments can be added below in

Please add votes with "#" + (optional comment) + ~

Option 1: Move to Alexandra, Countess of Frederiksborg

 * 1) I see no reason to include a second title. The article is unclear (at least to me), but it also seems to be a courtesy title, given on the grounds of a marroage now dissolved. Septentrionalis 16:30, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

Option 2: Move to Princess Alexandra, Countess of Frederiksborg

 * 1) support --Francis Schonken 20:35, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
 * 2) Support Deb 21:37, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
 * 3) Support Prsgoddess187 22:37, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
 * 4) Support It fits with other naming conventions, the current title is just bizare. (Alphaboi867 18:25, 22 September 2005 (UTC))
 * 5) Support definately to Princess Alexandra, Countess of Frederiksborg. Mac Domhnaill 02:36, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
 * 6) support Why does Arrigo always move these articles. Arrigo please stop your crusade of renaming royal articles without placing a discussion first. Gryffindor [[Image:Flag of Austria (state).svg|20px]] 23:39, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

Vote count report
Seven people voted, of which six for move to Princess Alexandra, Countess of Frederiksborg, summary: The move had already been operated by Deb on 27/9/2005.
 * 6 out of 7 voters voted for Option 2 = 86% > 60%, conclusion: Move to Princess Alexandra, Countess of Frederiksborg

However, the cleanup after the move was not completed yet, so I: --Francis Schonken 06:17, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Clean up double redirects;
 * Remove "move" templates here, and the listings on WP:RM (trying to help out with the backlog there).


 * Sorry, Francis, I've had technical problems and I was distracted. Deb 17:13, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

=Previous=

Move?
Shouldn't this be at Princess Alexandra, Countess of Frederiksborg? WP Naming conventions take out middle names in the title. (Written apparently by User:Matjlav)


 * Why was the name of this page changed from Princess of Denmark to Countess of Frederiksborg? She is still titled Princess of Denmark, and will only be "demoted" (for lack of a better term) to Countess upon any future remarriage.Prsgoddess187 14:00, 12 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Oppose the requested move to Alexandra Christina, Princess of Denmark, Countess of Frederiksborg as that sort of long and repetitive titulary is clearly unencyclopedic in heading. Naming conventions instead say that if a non-reigning royal has a substantive title (such as Countess of Frederiksborg in this case), that is to be used as heading. Same as with Charles, Prince of Wales. Naming conventions are written also to prevent too long-winded royal romantics in headings here (which has been a familiar problem to those who wrote NCs, as here certainly are users who appear to be royal-romantics rather than objective encyclopedia-writers), as such will only make this encyclopedia seem ridiculous. Arrigo 08:42, 16 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Approve renaming to Alexandra, Countess of Frederiksborg. Acceptable per NC. Arrigo 09:53, 17 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Well if her title is too long, she should be under Alexandra Christina, Princess of Denmark as that is the title that the Danish family's website gives her . If they still title her as a Princess of Denmark, shouldn't we?Prsgoddess187 12:31, 16 September 2005 (UTC)


 * I would agree with Prsgoddess187 that in this case we should simply use the official name the website of the Danish monarchy gives her. I see no point in further arguments in that case, because they obviously must know best... Gryffindor [[Image:Flag of Austria (state).svg|20px]] 20:39, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

Comment: Princess of Denmark is not a substantive title, as is not either Prince of the United Kingdom. Charles is under his substantive title, Prince of Wales. And Charles's little brother Edward is under HIS substantive title Earl of Wessex and not under "Edward, Prince of the United Kingdom". The naming convention here in Wikipedia is to use substantive title and not a long bunch of titles. If someone is dissatisfied to the naming convention, go propose a change of that WP policy, do not try to create here a single case of some longer titulary. 217.140.193.123 13:53, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

Maybe we can agree on a compromise. As was done with The Countess of Wessex, entered at Sophie, Countess of Wessex, would it be possible to move Alexandra to Alexandra, Countess of Frederiksborg. As Sophie's name is not in her title, neither will Alexandra's be if she ever remarries, she will be Her Excellency The Countess of Frederiksborg. I am just trying to make the entry look better, and the search for it easier for those not so familiar with the WP naming conventions.Prsgoddess187 14:41, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

I agree to naming her as Alexandra, Countess of Frederiksborg. (I always prefer entries where a personal name is the first word, instead of any title.) The move request should be changed accordingly, if any move is to become true. 217.140.193.123 14:59, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

Ummmmm. no. You are all wrong this page was correctly located at Princess Alexandra, Countess of Frederiksborg. This is what is correct. What it is located at now is even more incorrect than Alexandra, Countess of Frederiksborg. This is the style of the divorcee of the Count of Frederiksborg. Which she is not. It is incorrect to have this article titled anything except for Princess Alexandra, Countess of Frederiksborg. What you have done is the equivalent of listing Prince Philip at Duke Philip of Edinburgh.Mac Domhnaill 22:22, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

Mac Domhnaill - I don't disagree with you. I have no problem with the move back to Princess Alexandra, Countess of Frederiksborg, as that is her correct title. I was just trying to keep the peace, and avoid another cheesy edit war. I don't agree with where most of the British Royal Family are located, so I think that we think the same. I originally suggested Alexandra (Christina), Princess of Denmark, Countess of Frederiksborg, as that is her title on the Danish Royal Family's website, but your suggestion is a shorter version of that.Prsgoddess187 22:34, 18 September 2005 (UTC) Sorry for the length, I am really passionate about some strange things)


 * It seems to me like most people want this page at Princess Alexandra, Countess of Frederiksborg and the destination of the "requested move" above makes no sense in this context. Can we therefore vote on the new proposal, please? Deb 17:37, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

Note
SO WHAT YOU ARE REALLY SAYING IS BECAUSE CAMILLA, HER SISTER IN LAW ,COUTESS OF DENMARK WERE NOT BLUE BLOOD. THEY DO NOT RECIEVE REAL TITLES.IS THAT THE ROYAL LAW.I LIKE IT VERY MUCH IF THAT WERE SO.EVEN CHARLES LOOSING HIS FORMER TITLE AS PRINCE,BECAUSE HE MARRIED NON-ROYAL ON HIS SECOND MARRIGE. TO A DUKE OR COUNT.THOUGH IT ALL IT SHOULD BE SO BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT FULL TO EXSTINCT ROYAL BLOOD.IT'S NOT APPROPREIATE TO CALL HIM PRINCE HE VALUE LESS, HE SHOULD GET LESS.MARRYING NON-BLUE BLOOD MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE TO CONTIUE THE PURE LINE TO MAKE ROYAL ,IN IT ATTEMPT TO APPROIATE MEASURES OF LAW .AND MAKING AND HIGH ROYAL MONARCHY.
 * 1) user Arrigo = user 217.140.193.123 - and collecting material for writing another episode of lamest edit wars ever and/or BJAODN, which he does regularly under both names. --Francis Schonken 09:51, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

He married a non-royal on his first marriage too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.173.234.163 (talk) 21:39, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

=New 2 - comments from second vote on=

Move to Princess Alexandra, Countess of Frederiksborg
Please enter whether you approve, oppose or are neutral to the above move. Please remember to sign your posts.


 * Hope I did wel to start a new combined vote above? It wasn't clear to me who had approved to what with the two templates hovering over the old vote. --Francis Schonken 20:35, 21 September 2005 (UTC)


 * That's cool. I had started this section this afternoon after Deb suggested voting on the new choice, but your way is much easier.  Prsgoddess187 22:36, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

Comments can be added here

 * Move, definately to Princess Alexandra, Countess of Frederiksborg. Mac Domhnaill 02:36, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Hi Mac, this is the "further comments" section, best to add your vote to the appropriate vote section under the section title on top of the page if you want it to be counted, thanks! --Francis Schonken 10:54, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

, countess
The official website for The Danish Monarchy spells Princess Alexandra's additonal personal title without the "c" in "countess" being capitalized ''. (Respectively without the "g" in "grevinde" being capitalized in the Danish version)''. Hence the wikipedia article Princess Alexandra, Countess of Frederiksborg should be edited accordingly; Princess Alexandra, countess of Frederiksborg Vupti 15:06, 25 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Based on the above I do not agree with the edit by 200.89.248.22 of the c into a capital C again in Countess.
 * Should Princess Alexandra remarry and she ceases to be Princess, then I do believe the Danish Royal Court will write Countess with a capital C. However, I do not agree with the edited assumption that she will become HE The Countess. I rather believe the court write HE Countess Alexandra of Fredriksborg, like the former HH Princes of Denmark have been respectively HE Count Flemming of Rosenborg, HE Count Ingolf of Rosenborg and HE Count Christian of Rosenborg. Vupti 02:57, 27 January 2006 (UTC)


 * It would only make sense to write "countess" if her original title is written uncapitalized where such a title normally would be capitalized. Now, my guess is that "grevinde" is usually written that way. I might be wrong, but if the capitalization rules should be different in this specific case I'm quite certain that the press release would have explicitely said so. And if she's a "grevinde" in the ordinary way, she should be a "Countess" in the ordinary way: that is, capitalized. I don't think the "countess" on the DRC website (which I could only find in one place in the site, and so could very well be a mistype, a mistranslation, or an oversight) is to be taken as a desire that "grevinde" be translated in a specific way in this case, because, once again, the Court would have said so. (And even if it did, we would probably not let it govern the usage of English in the English Wikipedia, considering that we don't let the governments of the Czech Republic (wanting its country to be called "Czechia" in English) and East Timor (wanting its country to be called "Timor-Leste" in English) do the same.) Well, the easy way out is of course to ask the Royal Court what they mean. I might do that. -- Jao 11:59, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Titles
Knights of the Elephant are members of the 1st rank class. This means that during one day from her knighting to the wedding, she was offically Hendes Excellence frøken Alexandra Manley. --Klausok 08:49, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

The woman's official name
The Danish court calls her, officially, Alexandra Christina ... is there any reason Wiki does not, either in the title of the article or in the list of titles/names she has held from birth?Mowens35 20:16, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, because WP Naming Conventions rule #8 call for its omission in the page name. It's length would also probably clutter a styles box, but I agree that it should be mentioned in the first paragraph or soon thereafter. Lethiere 06:51, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

I changed the paragraph listing how what her name and title will be after marriage. The engagement announcement said that she will become "Alexandra Christina, grevinde af Frederiksborg." So, according to that announcement, she'll be Alexandra Christina, countess of Frederiksborg, using her title as a surname (rather than taking her new husband's surname). In fact, it's possible that the current Mr. Jørgensen may choose to become Martin af Frederiksborg. Ariadne55 21:56, 8 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Countess has a capital 'c'. Remember, we don't directly take Danish usage and apply it in English. English form is to use the capital 'C'. Presumably, this article will be relocated to Alexandra, Countess of Frederiksborg. Charles 22:11, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah, I didn't realize that was the way the 'c'/'C' controversy had gone. Thanks for changing it. Ariadne55 07:00, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

re-marriage and change of page title
I am not sure what time is the marriage - but it's today, so I have changed several details, and somebody, please change the title of the page. I can't do it. Please change the details that I have missed out.--w_tanoto 10:44, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Just moved the page, deleting "princess" title--w_tanoto 15:09, 3 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Should Alexandra be removed from the Danish Royal Family template, as she is no longer a member of the Royal Family? Prsgodd e ss187 16:24, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
 * How about a vote? I said "no" for a while, but after a week, yes. People might not be aware of the changes--w_tanoto 16:28, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Royal allowance
I read that she will continue to get a "royal allowance" of $330,000 per year. Is this paid for by the royal family or the Danish public? 71.237.236.45 04:30, 4 March 2007 (UTC) But then again: In Denmark, people that don't want to work, are kings. If you are above 25 years of age, you will get at least $1.600 a month (or $2.100 if you have kids) for doing nothing. On top of that, you will get a housing allowance. These amounts are for people without any insurance. If you are insured, you will get even more. No wonder, that a lot of people from poor countries wants to live in Denmark - and that a lot of hard working well educated Danes paying for all this wants to move abroad to pay less taxes.
 * It comes from the public treasury, but remember that the Folketing did vote for it. The only difference now that she's re-married is that she has to pay a hefty tax on it.  I've heard the tax is 60%, but couldn't find a reliable source; if anyone does find a good source, you might want to add a sentence about it to the article.  Ariadne55 05:53, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 * $330,000 is still a pretty good social security payment for a single mother. Even after marrying a man 14 years younger than herself, she will still get paid $330,000 every year for the rest of her life.

Alexandra vs. Alexandra Christina
The former article was at Princess Alexandra, Countess of Frederiksborg, so I'm wondering if this one should be at Alexandra, Countess of Frederiksborg instead of Alexandra Christina. I don't really think her middle name is necessary. Alexandra, Countess of Frederiksborg exists as a redirect, so I thought I'd ask for opinions before I requested a move. Morhange 20:55, 7 March 2007 (UTC)


 * This is requested at uncontroversial moves already. I explained that the middle name was not used in the former article and that was fine, nor should it be now. You can comment there to the effect of what you've said here. Charles 01:01, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Move request
Alexandra Christina, Countess of Frederiksborg → Alexandra, Countess of Frederiksborg moved as requested on WP:RM. Think I got all the double redirects from other pages too. Bubba hotep 10:23, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

???????????
If she isn't Danish, how is she part of the Royal Family?


 * She is not. She became part of the familiy by marrying prince Joachim. After her marriage to another man she is no longer considered part of the family. --Klausok 06:14, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Dead links
I noticed several dead links in the references. I suppose it is a consequence of the second marriage. 131.254.52.17 11:16, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Alexandra, Countess of Frederiksborg vs. Countess Alexandra of Frederiksborg
I may be wrong, but I don't think that she is the Countess of Frederiksborg. It's more likely that she is a Countess of Frederiksborg, just like the Queen's cousin, Count Ingolf of Rosenborg, is a Count of Rosenborg. HE's personal website also refers to her as Countess Alexandra Christina of Frederiksborg. If she is indeed a Countess of Frederiksborg, then the article should be moved to Countess Alexandra of Frederiksborg. Surtsicna (talk) 16:56, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Alexandra was made Grevinde -- and not Komtesse -- "af Fredriksborg". Although both titles are translated into English as "Countess", "Komtesse" is exclusively a title shared by daughters of a Danish count (Greve) until they marry: each daughter of a Count af Rosenborg is a Komtesse af Rosenborg, and each legitimate son of a Rosenborg count is also a count, ad infinitum. But "Grevinde" may be either a marital title obtained automatically by wedding a count, or a substantive title conferred directly by the sovereign (occasionally done when Danish kings or princes married morganatically, e.g. the second wives of Christian IV and Frederick VII). Since Alexandra is the only person who can ever bear the title "Grevinde af Rosenborg" under Queen Margrethe II's grant (Alexandra's sons bear, in additional to their princely title, the hereditary title of Greve af Monpezat), it seems very likely that she is "the" Countess of Fredriksborg de jure as well as de facto. FactStraight (talk) 08:50, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Captivating question from Surtsicna. Maybe interesting information to add: The contact page of her personal website writes her name as: H.E. The Countess Alexandra of Frederiksborg. So with "the". http://www.frederiksborg.eu/kontakt_en.html Demophon (talk) 15:25, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Deletion of House name
I have deleted the House name as it is no longer correct.Harlay (talk) 18:30, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Monogram
The Countess' monogram in this article is outdated. Since her divorce the royal crown was replaced by a comital crown. Does someone know a free source with the current monogram? --Thathánka Íyotake (talk) 21:40, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Husband's Title?
If Alexandra is the Countess of Frederiksborg, then why isn't her new husband the Count of Frederiksborg??? --PrincessAlice13 (talk) 12:56, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Because she was the one who was granted the title, not her husband. She holds it in her own right, not through marriage, and men have no claim to Danish titles held by their wives. The future husband of Princess Isabella of Denmark, for example, will automatically become neither prince of Denmark nor count of Monpezat. Talk about "equality" and "equal primogeniture"! Surtsicna (talk) 17:24, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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Fawning royalist drivel
Known for her fashion sense and charity work, she was dubbed the Diana of the North.

LOL! By whom? //erik.bramsen.copenhagen — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.83.153.69 (talk) 05:07, 29 May 2016 (UTC)