Talk:Alexandra Palace/Archive 1

Listing, and flogging, Ally Pally
I have added information about the current application to upgrade the listing, which has been made partly because of the possibility that potential developers, Firoka, may demolish the BBC studios in the south-east wing, according to local newspaper reports. The linked Independent article gives the story. Also brief information about how it became a charitable trust in 1900, to safeguard it from just such development. --Straw Cat 02:13, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Added links and reference to SaveAllyPally.com, which has latest information about the situation--Straw Cat 12:07, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Is Ally Pally the highest point in London. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.206.89.158 (talk) 09:42, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Prison
A sign at the wall of the palace also notes that the palace was used as prison during world war 1. It was set as to remember German prisoners and especially those who died in the prison. I wasn't able to find any information about this on the web. 27 May 2006
 * I think it's in one of the local history books, possibly Gay - almost certainly Hornsey Hist Soc stuff I think. There is a splendid German Christmas card from something like 1916 or 1917 showing a jolly London bobby directing Santa to the PoW camp - this was made I think by German PoWs to send home. Also, either local folklore or the history books (or both) say that an avenue of trees, perhaps Dr Johnson's Walk, I'm not sure, was replanted by the PoWs during WWI. I hope they enjoyed it up there - I don't think they were badly treated and while not as nice as being at home I imagine it was a very much better bet than being in the trenches. If I can find something more referencable than my random wafflings, I may add it to the article. :) 138.37.199.206 14:02, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Spare Pictures
I’ve deleted the top picture on the main page and replaced it with an image that shows more of the structure. The picture previously used was the view from the east shown below: Russ London 11:09, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Non spare pictures
Had to remove the non free interior shot. Please put some lovely free pictures in instead... Justinc 20:54, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Grid reference
I changed the grid reference to TQ296900 (from TQ296200). I believe this is correct, and the linked maps now point at the palace (PHW) --217.37.19.141 14:10, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Listed Building
Does anyone know if ally pally is a listed building? Jt spratt 15:45, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Yep. Grade II, please see this: http://www.imagesofengland.org.uk/search/details.aspx?pid=1&id=462017 - I have put this in the body copy: I imagine that it also needs clever category things doing with it but I have no idea how this is accomplished ... help?! :) 138.37.199.206 13:56, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Ally Pally is in Muswell Hill
I am astonished that someone has seen fit to allege once more that Ally Pally is in Wood Green. It is not, it is in Muswell Hill. It is not possible to make this error if you have actually been there. Their last comment was "Alexandra Palace offically comes under Wood Green, N22= NOT Muswell Hill, Which is N10." Rubbish, I am afraid. What does it mean it "officially comes under"? Who says? Under WHAT does if "offically come" and who "offically" put it there? No-one.

It has an N22 postcode but let's have a think about what that means - ah yes, it means it has an N22 postcode. That's all. Nothing further can be inferred from it. Just like lots of other places round here. There is NO big blue line on the ground in reality that says "end of Muswell Hill, beginning of Wood Green" just around where N10 turns into N22. This approach is so sadly naive it makes me want to weep. Oh yes, and the Palace puts Wood Green in their address. Does this have any meaning? No. Royal Mail does not require that element of the address, it's just someone at the Palace being stupid and proves nothing. If you do not believe me put the postcode into Royal Mail's Address Finder - does it mention Wood Green? No.

Ally Pally being in Muswell Hill - or rather, on it - is a geographical fact. If you ever came here you would know this - it's on a rather large hill-like thing called Muswell Hill, right next door to Muswell Hill's town centre, and is nowhere near the quite separate entity some distance away called Wood Green. And how about some of the Victorian references to Ally Pally cited in the article - how about this one: http://www.victorianlondon.org/buildings/alexandrapalace.htm - gosh! They all seem to think it was built in Muswell Hill, and they don't seem to think it's in Wood Green. How strange. Sorry to go on about it but I will not allow this error to be made as it just misleads people, so I will be watching the article and correcting it every time someone who knows nothing about the subject or area reintroduces their mistaken belief. Let's stick to the geographical facts please and not speculation about what it "comes under"! 82.45.248.177 14:52, 17 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I have noticed that the location has just changed to Wood Green, may I suggest that we say it is located between Muswell Hill and Wood Green? This is what the offical website says. Hopefully this will avoid this stupid argument! People need to chill, its only a website!!! Jt spratt 16:19, 7 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Please don't change topic headers, it's confusing and unhelpful. Now: I *love* it when people tell me it's a "stupid argument" and that "I need to chill" - please do it some more, it has a wonderful effect on me! :) Yes, the article changed to Wood Green again but since the person who does it refuses even to discuss it I just treat it as vandalism. Edit edit edit - gone! And indeed will continue to do so - oh dear, is that stupid and unchilled of me? Tsk!  No, I can't accept your suggestion, as it's - er - wrong. I did deal with all this up there ^ somewhere but you were too chilled and unstupid to read it. :) And frankly I don't care what the official website says. Firstly, it's strange but some people round here have doubts about their competence in certain fields: I could not possibly comment. Secondly, it is sensible to mention Wood Green when you are trying to get people to come to your lovely venue, as there is a jolly splendid tube station there. But this does not alter the geographical facts. I hope this is stupid enough for you: I am off to chill, or possible have a coronary! :) 82.45.248.177 17:39, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Similar - I've removed the comment that Wood Green tube is a short walk (which it isn't and it's up hill too) to it's a 1.5 mile walk. It measures 1.6 miles on Google Maps, but you can walk across the railway foot bridge and save a bit. Bangers 12:16, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

I worked there for 2 years and whenever I needed to give the address I was officially to give "Alexandra Palace, Alexandra Palace Way, Wood Green, N22 7AY". Also the reason that it's said to be a short walk from Wood Green tube is that this is part of the advertising and promotion of the Palace and its facilities. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.233.26.226 (talk) 08:04, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Famous events list ...
Are they really all famous events? I am wondering if it is just turning into a catalogue of all events, or nearly all events, or most of the big events, or something, but I am not really qualified to say. I'd be interested to know what others think. 138.37.199.206 16:34, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Concerts
What is its capacity for music concerts today? TomGreen 17:14, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

birthplace of television
I was astonished to find the image "A plaque commemorating the birthplace of television." and the year 1936 here. I always thought the first TV was made in Germany (the same year, indeed), but I'll check it with the BBC Portal and the relevant German information. Yes, this is a minor topic in this article but once the image is here. BTW I remember the beautiful daily view on Alexandra Palace from Highgate where I lived 4 weeks in 1972 or so, as a schoolboy visiting my half-sister and family. Greetings to Nici, if you ever read this! Wschroedter (talk) 08:40, 14 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Although the first purely electronic televisions were built elsewhere, John Logie Baird's electromechanical televisions were indeed the first. It comes down to a semantic discussion of what exactly you mean by television; if you mean TV as we'd recognise it today, Philo Farnsworth built the first, in the USA, but Baird's transmissions from Muswell Hill were the first transmissions of moving images. – iride  scent  14:41, 14 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I understand the difference is that although Germany also had high-definition television by 1936, the broadcasts from Alexandra Palace were available to all individuals who had a television receiver, whereas the German broadcasts weren't.Straw Cat (talk) 14:49, 14 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for these explanations. I understand and believe it; I won't re-check it. But while the text on the plaque in the image may be correct, the caption is still somewhat misleading, or let me say, too generalizing. I'll change it a little, you may revert it if you mislike it, ok? Wschroedter (talk) 18:31, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Seems a fair qualification. I expect they simply ran out of word room on the plaque! Straw Cat (talk) 18:49, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Possible attempt at censorship of this article?
Haringey council as trustees are expending large amounts of money on internal and external PR to influence public opinion about the hugely controversial policy to sell Alexandra Palace to a commercial developer.

Last month two edits which suddenly removed or changed key information relating to the attempt by the present trustees and management to sell the Palace by 125-year lease were done by an editor using the name davidloudfoot. No other contributions to WP seem to have been made by this user. No discussion was initiated on this page.

The name of the current General manager of the Palace - and an employee of the trustees - is David Loudfoot.

His changes have now been amended. Hope he will discuss any further proposed deletions on this page first. Straw Cat (talk) 23:48, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Willis Organ
Many years ago I had an LP of pre-war recordings of the Willis Organ in Alexandra Palace. I remember that the blurb on the record sleeve said that during WW2 the window behind the organ was blown out by a bomb and that although the organ was undamaged because the window wasn't repaired the organ was badly damaged by rain getting in. Does anyone know more about this or is my memory playing tricks? Welkinridge (talk) 14:44, 30 April 2010 (UTC)


 * The information you want is here. --Storye book (talk) 19:47, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

clarity please

 * In 2007 an application was made to upgrade the listing by Hornsey Historical Society which originally got the Palace Grade II listed (against the opposition of trustee Haringey London Borough Council), and the BBC.

I think this should read as follows:
 * An application was made in 2007 by Hornsey Historical Society to upgrade the listing from its current Grade II. The Society originally got the Palace Grade II listed against the opposition of trustee Haringey London Borough Council and the BBC.

Please confirm I am interpreting the ambiguity correctly. Thanks. Derekbd (talk) 20:22, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
 * No. The BBC is supporting the current application. Straw Cat (talk) 21:50, 27 April 2011 (UTC)


 * So


 * An application was made in 2007 by Hornsey Historical Society[2] and BBC to upgrade the listing from its current Grade II. The Society originally got the Palace Grade II listed against the opposition of trustee Haringey London Borough Council.

Okay? Derekbd (talk) 13:48, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, fine. Straw Cat (talk) 16:08, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Done. Thanks for the help.Derekbd (talk) 05:23, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Clarity
This article is well-written and tolerably well-sourced. Thanks to those who have maintained it. However, two parts don't make much sense to me.

The first part, where the body of the article begins with "The Great Northern Palace Company had been established by 1860 but was initially unable to raise financing." Presumably, the article is talking about raising financing for the construction of the building, but it's vague and there's no discussion of why the company's founders thought the building was needed, etc. It just comes out of the blue.

The second part is the history of the building between 1917 and 1936, which isn't mentioned at all. And then, suddenly, a television station is built in the Palace. To an American reader, this needs better explanation. Why would they build a television station in a palace? What events precipitated the decision? I know readers more familiar with the subject can provide a better explanation. Firsfron of Ronchester 23:41, 22 December 2012 (UTC)


 * These are good points and I'm sorry that we haven't addressed them in ~5 months! I am not sure if I have books that could help, but will have a look. Thanks and best wishes DBaK (talk) 08:24, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Entertainment venue
I very much like TBM10's recent edit, which I think improves clarity and readability. The only thing I'm slightly bothered by is the new start of the lead, which now reads "Alexandra Palace is an entertainment venue". It used to be (the admittedly insipid and uninformative) "Alexandra Palace is a building", so I am not advocating a return to that. But I'm a little worried that "entertainment venue" is somehow a bit pat and oversimplistic; maybe a touch narrow ... is that all it is? I supposed it partly depends on how wide you think the scope of "entertainment venue" can be ... I am certainly not up for a fistfight over this and will lose no sleep if it does not change; I just wondered what others' ideas might be? Best wishes to all, DBaK (talk) 08:20, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I actually don't know all that much about the building's history, I just went to a concert there recently that's all. Is it "famous" as being the place where the world's first TV broadcast was made (or similar)? --TBM10 (talk) 20:20, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Hard edit
I'd recommend that the events section could do with a hard care edit. Alley Palley is one of London's major entertainment venues - it's there to host conferences, music gigs and shows. Most of those listed currently are not particularly notable and not referenced. It's also a common venue for filming so there's no point in listing all the shows and films it has turned up in. Anna (talk) 23:59, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Update required
In the 20th century section, the following statement appears: "The council for some years did not accept this politically embarrassing finding and instead maintained that the charity "owed" the council £30 million, charged compound interest on what it termed a "debt" (which eventually rose to a claim of some £60 million), and to recoup it tried to offer the whole palace for sale — a policy their successors are still trying to carry out despite being rejected by the High Court in October 2007. As of June 2008, it is still unclear whether the council in either of its guises has agreed to write off its 1980s overspend." Is there a update on this situation? The latest known position - June 2008 - is over 5 years ago. --TBM10 (talk) 11:43, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

Towers on corners
The old picture of the rebuilt palace shows it having semi-obelisk looking towers on them. At what point were these removed?? --RThompson82 (talk) 22:10, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Blimey. Good point. ... dunno. I will have a look at a couple of books, or hope someone faster/cleverer knows. Interesting. As you say, they sure as **** aren't there now! Cheers DBaK (talk) 23:38, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

Franz Ferdinand sell out record
The Scottish band Franz Ferdinand has the record for the most sold out nights (four nights) and nobody has mentioned it. somebody should add this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.3.227.144 (talk) 05:51, 25 June 2008 (UTC)