Talk:Alfa Romeo

Dispute on Alfa Romeo current luxury definition
A dispute is ongoing about a long standing definition of Alfa Romeo as a luxury car manufacturer. While surely this has been true in the past, and even most evident about the definition of sport car manufacturer, the current production suggests a different evidence for the time being. Current models can be viewed on the official website ww.alfaromeo.com : four models are available, 1 is an entry level (Junior), 2 are SUVs (Tonale, Stelvio), 1 is sedan (Giulia). While Stelvio may reasonably fall under the luxury definition, along with the upgraded Quadrifoglio version of Giulia, Junior, Tonale and entry-level Giulia are not.

The "luxury" definition does not apply according several objective metrics. 1: Choice of luxury vehicles in the catalogue. A "luxury brand" should focus the majority of the production on luxury cars. Junior, Tonale and Giulia are not. Please check on the correspondent Wikipedia pages about the general definitions of these models. 2: Technology. A luxury item is not supposed to share the majority of components with entry/compact SUV level items. Two out of six models are definitively no luxury cars. The Junior model has the same chassis of Peugeot 3008; Tonale is a compact SUV derived from Jeep Liberty and shares a modified platform with Jeep Compass (see corresponding entries). 3: Price. A comparative analysis of competitors shows that the luxury segments has higher prices than same-class Alfa Romeo models. For example, BMW 3-series and Mercedes-Benz C-class are in the same segment of Giulia are priced more than Alfa Romeo cars with matching engine and equipment. All manufacturers are from European Union, with similar country-adjusted purchase power. Current sale prices can be verified on official websites. 4: The production of competitors defined as "luxury" manufacturers on Wikipedia offer the majority of their catalogue in the segment of high-value cars (Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Aston Martin, Maserati etc.). As from previous point, the top sedan Alfa Romeo matches the BMW and Mercedes-Benz medium segment. Even if the Quadrifoglio version of Giulia may fall under a "luxury" definition, please notice that this is just an upgraded version, similar for M versions in BMW. 5: Conversely, the luxury definition is not applied on Wikipedia for other manufacturers, even if they offer luxury models comparable to Junior, Tonale, and Giulia by performance, equipment, and price. E.g., Toyota offers Crown and Mirai with reasonable matching features. Moreover, the Toyota luxury division Lexus is defined as such with a catalogue with all cars in the upper segment (and not one or two like Alfa Romeo). 93.37.212.111 (talk) 01:25, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Please don't restore a contested edit while it is under discussion. Meters (talk) 08:24, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Can you provide anything other than your opinions for your statements? For example, who exactly sets these supposed metrics you are discussing?
 * This article has a source that shows that the Alpha Romeo brand was considered a "luxury division" in 2005, and despite your claim that the Tonale is not a luxury vehicle, Tonale contains a sourced statement that it "is marketed in the premium segment". Meters (talk) 08:36, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Quote "Alfa Romeo has been an iconic Italian luxury and high performance car manufacturer for over 110 years", same as premium sport. Reuters premium brand. YBSOne (talk) 10:50, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I did not give personal statement. There is no established metric to define "luxury cars", and a discussion shall proceed by analogy and proxies.
 * I provided several proxies and comparisons with established "luxury" brands, and I included information about some models deriving from middle-segment models from the same manufacturer group, most notably Tonale.
 * My arguments find ground in corresponding Wikipedia entries.
 * Quoting from Reuters is less than a metric; moreover, Alfa Romeo has never been a luxury make in its roaring years, and it was not their scope either since they focused on the sport features. The luxury brand of Fiat Automobiles in the past was Lancia.
 * I suggest that you provide better metrics, since you find mine arbitrary (in absence of accepted definition), but you have no other argument than relying on old entries.
 * Many readers use Wikipedia to retrieve independent information before buying a vehicle and have a better insight to the brand than reading specialised journals (that have a different scope). The information provided may be truly misleading. 51.252.140.27 (talk) 23:38, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
 * It's not up to Wikipedia editors to decide if Alfa Romeo is a luxury or premium brand. We don't do WP:ORIGINAL RESEARCH or "proceed by analogy and proxies". We report what reliable sources call Alfa Romeo. And we have provided reliable sources that call it a premium or luxury brand. Meters (talk) 23:47, 10 May 2024 (UTC)