Talk:Alfalfa

Lucerne as Fodder
Might it be an idea to mention that though Lucerne is used as fodder for cattle, it also causes fatal cases of bloat in at least Cattle and Sheep that have fed on it for too long. Its in most farmers almanacs that I have read. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.253.20.198 (talk) 09:27, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Dietary supplement value
What kind of herbal dietary supplement value does Alfalfa have? Joel M. 01:30, Dec 3, 2004 (UTC)

One Opinion: Alfalfa (Medicago sativa, Lucerne) is considered by many to have significant nutritional value for humans. It can be consumed as sprouted seeds (with initial two leaves) or unsprouted seed (more difficult to digest and controversial for several auto-immune syndromes.) They can be consumed as a tea or as a desiccated "grass sprout" either in tablet or powder form. It can be a source of dietary fiber, depending on how it is consumed. It contains significant amounts of vitamins A (carotene), B-complex, C, E, K and P (bioflavinoids) plus enzymes, amino acids, calcium and other essential minerals that contribute to its utilization in bones. It contributes to vein, circulatory heath and normal clotting. (Note corresponding cautions pre-surgically and for some specific blood disorders.) It prevents plaque build-up in the arteries. Several of the preceding points argue for its use in reducing potential for stroke. It promotes healthy lactation for nursing mothers. Many people have great success in reducing allergic over-response in their seasonal allergies with alfalfa tea, powder or tablets. NOTE: There is some controversy (especially in the Ayurveda medical system) about the use of sprouts (of any type) in the daily diet, especially for VATA constitution, as they are considered overly astringent and agitating. All sprouts contain concentrated, though natural, toxicity for use in their own survival. This toxicity was even referenced in the main article on alfalfa as a reason for crop rotation in alfalfa planting.) Charlotte Jernigan 17:10, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

two alfalfas?
What is the relationship between THIS alfalfa (used for animal feed) and the small fresh shoots sold in plastic containers at the greengrocer for sandwiches and salads - that's called alfalfa too... KJ


 * Same stuff, just much younger.


 * I think we need a reference to the latter in the article. QuinnHK 18:33, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Family
The taxobox lists "Family: Fabaceae"; the article itself says "family: Leguminosae"--? Is it both? --KQ


 * The USDA website says Fabaceae. --rmhermen


 * It's both, a third name for the same familiy is Papilionaceae. -- Gauss 13:54, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Our Gang
Our Gang was actually a short film series released to movie theatres, not a television show. --b. Touch 07:52, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Bale weight
I have reverted an anonymous, unreferenced change to the weight of the large, round bales used by cattle ranches, originally 1,000 pounds, then changed to 2,000. I didn't take the time find a source for the number. &mdash; Pekinensis 23:14, 23 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Thank you. There may be 2,000 pound bales out there somewhere, but I've never seen them. Around here they run between about 1,350 and 1,700. Gary D Robson 16:19, 25 August 2005 (UTC)


 * I'd suggest rounding the figures to 500-1000 kg. Bale weight isn't a very high precision detail. - MPF 19:58, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Article coverage
Not sure why this page lists the whole genus Medicago; Alfalfa is just M. sativa. When I've a bit more time, I'll split out a new Medicago genus page, and merge the existing Medicago sativa page with this one - MPF 20:03, 25 August 2005 (UTC)


 * I think I've managed to do this properly; there's now a new page for Medicago, with the interwiki links formerly at this page, and the information from Medicago sativa has been inserted into this article and that article redirected here. Choess 06:47, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Literature
Not sure if this is relevent enough or not, Alfalfa is repetatively mentioned in 'Of Mice and Men' by John Steinbeck. Probably not important enough.

Modern fashion food
I have increasingly noticed alfalfa sprouts in the chilled cabinet at local vegan / trendy greengrocers. It would be interesting to include what the culinary use of alfalfa usually is, when it became populular. Has it always been a salad ingredient? Is it to do with vegetarian health? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.105.228.120 (talk) 01:30, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Copyediting
I really admired this entry and decided to spend some time copyediting it to improve it readibility. I very slightly expanded the section on Roundup Ready alfalfa, mentioning that it belongs to Monsanto, the source of the lawsuit, and clarifying the issue of gene flow (omitting the term), since it wasn't explained anyway. Most of my edits were to remove excess words, use the active voice, and similar. Eperotao (talk) 18:31, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Food and drink Tagging
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Title

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the proposal was no consensus to move. Jafeluv (talk) 11:45, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Alfalfa → Medicago sativa &mdash; This article should be moved to the scientific name as per wikipedia guidelines. Ex. Taxus baccata instead of European Yew. I moved it.Pisharov (talk) 21:42, 7 July 2009 (UTC) Common names are to redirect to scientific names.
 * Never mind. An admin needs to delete Medicago sativa and then move this article there. Alfalfa should redirect to Medicago sativa, not the other way around. I'm going to put it on the requested move list.Pisharov (talk) 21:47, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Alfalfa → : Medicago sativa is the scientific name for Alfalfa. Medicago sativa redirects to Alfalfa. The scientific name of the plant should be used as the title. There is no talk page for Medicago sativa. Delete Medicago sativa and move Alfalfa there.Pisharov (talk) 22:08, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Contested for the following reason: common names are often preferred to scientific names; see WikiProject Tree of life. -kotra (talk) 22:23, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Oppose. I see no compelling reason for not using the common name. For example, it is not misleading to call it alfalfa. 199.125.109.88 (talk) 23:35, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Support Naming conventions (flora) says:


 * English sundew → Drosera anglica
 * in addition it says:

Article naming for flora articles differs from the standard Tree of Life policy in the following ways [...]
 * which seems to address the point above.
 * - Aubergine (talk) 00:09, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * It also says:
 * Plants that are sufficiently significant economically or culturally should be given a page describing their use, history and associations, with their common name as a page title. Example: coffee. Simultaneously, a separate page titled with the plant's scientific name should be created; this would be the place for botanical descriptions and relationships. Example: Coffea.
 * This article confirms to this standard.
 * Jeremy (blah blah) 06:03, 8 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Oppose this is a common crop. I suppose next you'll be moving wheat, and sorghum 70.29.208.69 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 03:05, 8 July 2009 (UTC).
 * And don't forget oats, peas, beans, and barley (neither you, nor I nor anyone knows how ... grows). Someone tried to move heroin to some humongous name, and it was speedy closed in 5 hours flat. 199.125.109.124 (talk) 05:49, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Oppose . This is not just a taxon; it is a crop, a forage, a vegetable, and a garnish. So long as we are treating all these in a single article, the breadth of our audience demands we use the more accessible title. If someone wants to split out alfalfa sprout, alfalfa shoot, alfalfa hay, etcetera, then there may be a case for moving the remaining species article to Medicago sativa. Hesperian 03:42, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Changed to confused and ambivalent, per "lucerne" comments below, and limited evidence that alfalfa is also used as a name for the genus; e.g. Google '"two alfalfa species"'. Hesperian 04:25, 9 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Oppose per WP:common name. See tomato, lemon, apple, etc... --Jeremy (blah blah) 05:57, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Oppose per above and WP:common name  Blind  Eagle  talk ~ contribs  13:34, 8 July 2009 (UTC)


 * The common name is lucerne in much of the world. Why do we have to be US-biased when we have a neutral scientific name? 166.137.4.6 (talk) 13:37, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Lucerne is ambiguous; with the primary usage the Swiss city after which the grass is named. That aside, either would be preferable to a Neo-Latin name; this is the English Wikipedia. At least this way much of the English-speaking world can find and understand the title; and we have firm guidance against Anglo-American language wars. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 15:02, 8 July 2009 (UTC)


 * support NPOV mainly, NC (flora), RS, RW, and, if ENGVAR is applicable, "opportunities for commonality". A few bucks can buy you a bale of lucerne hay or a punnet of alfalfa sprouts. These synonyms are unsuitable if this article is about the species, and its products, and both are ambiguous. Alfalfa refers to this species, to the genera, and to others specifically and generally. It is, for example, a name applied to the gm product known as "Roundup Ready alfalfa"; one reliable source says "Host organism: Medicago sativa (alfalfa)", another nation's authority named this same product in its report as "Glyphosate tolerant lucerne". Why would one name have priority? Does 'alfalfa' have a better pedigree than these names adopted from other languages? This solution is the one adopted 200 years ago by pretty much everyone, english or otherwise, who are we to push any other name. BTW, I am familiar, personally, with the term lucerne hay and lucerne for the crop. What source says it named after the city, some give F. luzerne and L. lucerna (lamps, light) for the "bright seeds". cygnis insignis 14:49, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Oppose because this is complicated, and I'd rather first see more clarity/discussion. First, alfalfa is used, at least sometimes, to refer to other parts of Medicago.  For example, google for "medicago spp" alfalfa (with the quotes) - 9000 hits (versus 300,000 for "medicago sativa" alfalfa).  Note that commercially grown alfalfa is usually not either Medicago sativa or any other species but a hybrid of M. sativa and M. falcata (according to our Alfalfa article). I think we probably want an article at Alfalfa or Lucerne (crop), with a redirect from the other, about the crop, including hybrids, and a separate article at Medicago sativa which focuses on wild populations (and points to the crop article for details on that). But I'm not really sure. Kingdon (talk) 00:27, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Oppose. When did we decide to not use English on the English encyclopedia? Vegaswikian (talk) 02:34, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Name (not a move proposal)
I'm genuinely curious about the the initial paragraph:

"''Alfalfa (Medicago sativa) is a flowering plant in the pea family Fabaceae cultivated as an important forage crop. In the UK, Australia, South Africa and New Zealand it is known as lucerne and as lucerne grass in south Asia."

The rest of the article suggests it's grown worldwide, so I initally assumed "alfalfa" was a universal name and a British name had spread through the Commonwealth. But a quick glance at the interwikis shows they tend to either be related to "lucerne", or completely unlike either. Alfalfa seems to be Spanish-related. Anyway... is "alfalfa" just used in Canada and the US, or are there other places I missed out? I'm finding this paragraph a bit ambiguous. -- Shimmin Beg (talk) 23:14, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Need Table for Bail Sizes
I removed this from the main page:

retail size for hay Bale sizes: Bale size: 3 string 100 # to 140# to 140# 22” x 15” x 44” Bale size: 2 string 40 # to  75 #  19” x 16” x 36” One ton bales: 2000# 4’ x   4’  x  8’ Half ton bales: 1000# 3’ x  4’   x  6’ Round bales: 850 to 1100# 4x4  or   4x5

If someone could put this info into a table or improve the information and re add it ...Onefinalstep (talk) 00:08, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Toxicity of canavanine
Found some research that presence of canavanine sugest anti cancer properties of alfalfa.

The natural abundance of L-canavanine, an active anticancer agent, in alfalfa, medicago sativa (L.). Rosenthal GA, Nkomo P. Abstract L-Canavanine, a potentially toxic antimetabolite of L-arginine that is stored by many leguminous plants, has demonstrative antineoplastic activity against a number of animal-bearing carcinomas and cancer cell lines. This investigation evaluated the natural abundance of this anti-cancer compound in commercially available sprouts, and in ten varieties of the seed of alfalfa, Medicago Sativa (L.). Canavanine abundance in commercially grown sprouts varied according to the source; the young plant stored appreciable canavanine that ranged from 1.3 to 2.4% of the dry matter. Alfalfa seeds were also rich in this nonprotein amino acid as the canavanine content varied from 1.4 to 1.8% of the dry matter. On average, the tested seeds contained 1.54 ± 0.03% canavanine. Alfalfa seed canavanine content was comparable to the levels found in the seeds of representative members of the genus Canavalia, which are amongst the more abundance sources of this antimetabolite.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21214431

http://www.encognitive.com/node/14527

159.148.5.4 (talk) 16:52, 5 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your note. The current toxicity section is based on what happens when real people eat real raw alfalfa. It is true.  The anti-cancer info you provide above is based on studies in cells and model animals, and we do not know if it is true, that Canavanine will be useful to treat cancer in people - we won't know until there are clinical trials in people.  So... content based on this doesn't belong in the toxicity section at all. If it goes anywhere it would go into a Research section in an article on Canavanine, not in an article about alfalfa.  So i reverted your addition.  Hope that makes sense - happy to discuss. Jytdog (talk) 17:26, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

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History
''In the 16th century, Spanish colonizers introduced alfalfa to the Americas as fodder for their horses. They were aware that alfalfa is better than grass as food for working horses (alfalfa had more energy)'.

This is not true, legumes don't have more energy than grasses. Whatsmore legumes are not fed pure, but mixed with grasses, maize, and/or cereal grain. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A03:7500:A84:8400:4F4:60D5:38F2:FA10 (talk) 12:24, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

Terminology in Australia
The article says that the plant is known as lucerne in Australia. I live in Melbourne and I think that may be the case for the grown plant, but "alfalfa" is still used to refer to the sprouts used for salad.

I have never heard of the sprouts being called lucerne, and never heard of alfalfa being used in other contexts, so I think it is a matter of different terms for different aspects of the plant.

I don't know how widespread this is. It could be different in other states. 121.200.6.49 (talk) 10:56, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

Terminology in United Kingdom
I am a UK national and have not seen the term Lucerne in any shops

Alfalfa is the common name.

I may be wrong and I think this should be considered for amendment.

Thank you to all who edit. PS_Micra (talk) 04:47, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Title...
As the article itself says -

"The name alfalfa is used in North America. The name lucerne is more commonly used in the United Kingdom, South Africa, Australia, and New Zealand"

In fact it seems the name lucerne is the more widely used name. It would seem better then that the title was Lucerne rather than Alfalfa. 109.144.217.197 (talk) 00:54, 17 June 2024 (UTC)


 * It's tricky to compare usage via Google hits, because of the Swiss city Lucerne, but my impression is that online "alfalfa" is more common. "Lucerne" for the plant would also needs a disambiguator, so I think "alfalfa" is better. Peter coxhead (talk) 06:37, 17 June 2024 (UTC)