Talk:Alfred Pennyworth

hi

Death
Of course. How utterly proper. Who: Alfred Pennyworth Source: Batman: The Dark Knight Returns The character has burned down Wayne Manor, his home and place of employment. Character immediately suffers a fatal stroke.

From "Wikiquote", an expanded, detailed version shall be included.


 * I don't see a page for Alfred on wikiquote, but if someone makes one, we can link to that. :) -- Ipstenu ( talk | contribs ) 13:47, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

3rd party should review edit
22:37, 18 April 2006 Ipstenu Third party should evaluate this as a bad faith removal. One of the two deleted links is not "Catwoman fan stuff" as was stated but an Alfred-Centric story similar to the previous one which had remained for months. This would have been apparent if deleting user had bothered to read the first chapter or even first paragraphs. Suspect this is vindictive removal related to dispute brewing in Catwoman article, hence that designation.

The above comment was made by CatExp on 2006-04-19 12:17:29


 * Wasn't bad faith, was a bad read, but I still think it should go. As I mentioned in email to you (assuming the email was you), the External Link Policy, under Occasionally acceptable links is listed Fan Links. If, when I went to the link, it said 'Alfred Pennyworth Fan Fic' I might have thought 'Ahah, this is about Alfred. Instead, my browser reads 'Catwoman Fan Fiction' and ... well, Alfred != Catwoman. Ergo, the site is about catwoman, with an Alfred section.  Or, as I re-read it, one Alfred story. Frankly, I don't have an opinon on fanfic, one way or the other.  I removed both becuase I looked at Catwoman and remembered that the Diamond Exchange fan link had been previously removed (and added back and removed again), and agreed that a single fan work really wasn't notable enough to remain on the site. (PS, you can sign your talk edits with -- ~ :) ) -- Ipstenu 20:36, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Alfred the detective
22:37, 11 July 2006 MMM Commentaries Is there anything in Alfred's history about his amateur detective status? It is hinted in the text that his detective skills are nearly as good as Bruce's, but no real instances of his sluething. Can this be expanded at all?

Dry British Humor
Alfred is synonymous to it, yet (as far as i can see) there's not one mention of it in the entire article--TommyStardust 19:43, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Alfred the actor
What? No mention of Alfred's backgground as a theatre actor prior to being employed by the Waynes? I know it was referenced in a Batman annual and also in the Nightwing special, Alfred's Return. He's used those skills to impersonate Bruce and some other people in order to provide an alibi for Bruce Wayne. --Destron Commander 10:12, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Born again?
I'm no Bats expert, but I've read (Daniels, DC Comics) Alfred was created for the serial. Also, when did Bob Kane become Bats' writer? Trekphiler 08:32, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Legends of the Dark Knight #117
The paragraph titled Post-Crisis says:
 * His resourcefulness came to the fore in the No Man's Land storyline, especially in Legends of the Dark Knight #117. 

Hmm. In the Legends of the Dark Knight #117 that I read, Alfred does not appear at all. The story is titled Bread and Circuses: Part One. It does, however, take place within the No Man's Land storyline. Someone please look into this matter. Thank You.

Yours, Savio mit electronics 05:21, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, solved this case. It was Legends of the Dark Knight No. 118. One fan of comic books has a livejournal entry about this particular issue, with some scans from the book. You can check it out if you like.


 * Yours,
 * Savio mit electronics 05:38, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Do we really need so many pictures?
Do we really need so many pictures of Alfred in other media? I mean, my goodness, there's 5 of them: Burton/Schumaucher films, Batman Begins, Batman 60s show, Birds of Prey, and The Batman. Not to mention, the way they're in the article makes it look cluttered and junky, and it just doesn't look nice. Can we cut that down to at least 3, and I would really say 2. The Alfred from Birds of Prey we really don't need, as he was a minor character there, and I'd probably say the same thing about the Alfred from the 60s Batman show. Keep Batman Begins for sure, as Alfred is pretty important in that film, and I'd say the one from the Burton/Schumaucher films too. Anakinjmt 03:27, 29 October 2007 (UTC)


 * In general I'd agree with nixing the animated image, since for all intents it, and the BTAS/TNBA, are artistic variations of the comic appearance.
 * And the BoP one is a minor appearance, and visually echos Gough.
 * However, the other three, Napier, Gough, and Caine, are visually distinct and relatively important. Napier is, arguably, the better known of the three. Gough is the only actor to make it through all 4 of the 90s films. And Caine is the "current" Alfred, though that is the weakest possible argument. - J Greb 11:02, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Alright then. I've fixed it and made it look a lot nicer, although can we get a better shot of Caine? The one we have is a profile. Anakinjmt 12:59, 29 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually I disagree. Personally, I think that all the pictures could be used is he expand the information in the section and created a page titled Alfred Pennyworth in other media much like Batman in other media. Alternatively, we could a a little table with a ll the pictures in it like in the In other media section of the Lois Lane page. --Vinnyvinny2 18:32, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Alastair Duncan
I think the link for Alfred on "The Batman" played by Alastair Duncan should be changed or removed. It links to a different Alastair Duncan, who while still an actor, died in 2005. The IMDB page that is linked to that Alastair Duncan does not state he did any voicework on "The Batman". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.246.100.240 (talk) 16:02, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

I changed the link to reflect the proper actor.

Adopting the Robins
I'm familiar with Bruce Wayne adopting Dick Grayson and Tim Drake, but don't recall him adopting Jason Todd. Are you certain that occurred? Great Stone Face (talk) 15:09, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Alternate histories
In the "Post-Crisis" section, the article refers to "assorted versions" of Alfred's history which have appeared post-Crisis. It would be helpful to readers if the article indicated where these conflicting histories appeared. (I don't know, or I'd add the information myself.) —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 05:12, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

You Guys Need to Re-read That Batman & the Outsiders Special
Bruce didn't just say "I always thought you were like a father to me" (I just noticed the lettering is all caps, kind of lazy), he also said, "but I was wrong... ...you're not like a father--you are my father, Alfred" (meaning Alfred is Bruce Wayne's biological father). Apparently that's canon now. 76.111.80.228 (talk) 17:27, 22 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Why is DC doing this? (JoeLoeb (talk) 22:13, 25 February 2009 (UTC))
 * Wow. You're seriously off your rocker. There is such thing as metaphor and simile. That's what they're using. Not canon. Please properly source and check with DC first, that way maybe we can name it a credible source. JoeLoeb, DC's not doing anything. Sorry if I come off as rude, but you need credibility. The Joker's Woman [ BlackPearl14•contribs! ] 01:24, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
 * It's quaint that you love Batman so much you can't read properly. Keep in mind I don't take some perverse delight in Alfred being Bruce Wayne's father.  I really couldn't care less either way.  I do think it's kind of funny the writer responsible (Peter J. Tomasi) seems to be entertaining some not terribly well thought out fanboy fantasy of his.  But then what difference does that make?  (Other than people will be horrified to think that the previously innocent and inviolable Mrs. Wayne is now an adulteress.  And yeah, they tried that before.  It didn't go over too well.  I guess Tomasi wants to try it again.)  Mind you the quote I made up there was a direct and exact quote from the page.  I'm curious how I could have misinterpreted that.  I mean really do tell me.  (No, do, I'd like to know.)  You did say it was "metaphor and simile".  Oh yeah, he said "you were like a father".  "Like".  That makes it a simile.  Right?  Except the next thing he says "not like a father--you are my father".  Ooh, yeah, I really must be misreading that somehow.  Perhaps I'll hit my head with a hammer until it's right.  Would you like that?  So I see things your way? 68.49.138.170 (talk) 19:54, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
 * O.K. That was messed up. And, I'm sorry.  I'm not the biggest Batman fan, nor am I even a bigger Batman fan than you.  To be honest I was only following Outsiders because Judd Winick is one of the few comics writers I can stand.  And, I have to say this Tomasi fellow is even worse than usual.  (I mean really.  Did you read Outsiders #15?  It was just plain awful.  It really is an injustice to the Outsiders that they're treated with such incompetence.  Which is why I've dropped the Outsiders from my subscription.)  Nonetheless I don't like it when people seem to suggest that I didn't read something right, or flat out say, "You're seriously off your rocker".  I did not read that wrong.  And, it's not a metaphor for something else.  68.49.138.170 (talk) 20:08, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay, I see the problem. Let me clear this up. What I was trying to say is that just because something is mentioned in one comic, doesn't mean it's canon. For example, Brian Azzarello’s Joker graphic novel is produced and manufactured by DC itself but it so far hasn’t been made canon, as in fixed, with the other stories about the Joker. Until more stories on the Joker have been fixed to work in accordance with DC’s other novels, or to make sense in some way, Azzarello’s Joker graphic novel isn’t canon. Similarly, this is just one comic book. It doesn’t fit in with the other books and Batman stories that talk about how Bruce Wayne’s parent’s deaths shaped him on becoming Batman, all right? So this is definitely not canon. By this, I, and others, are assuming that Bruce is telling Alfred that Alfred is the father figure he never had, therefore making Alfred his father. It doesn’t necessarily have any biological meaning. Again, I wasn’t trying to be rude, but perhaps you should research the term “canon” before you post something up like this. I do apologize for writing “off your rocker” but to be honest, taking things so literally without a backup research isn’t really going to aid you in adding something in an article at all. The Joker's Woman [ BlackPearl14•contribs! ] 20:19, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I should add that experience over on canon (fiction) shows that trying to identify what is and isn't canon is more of a fan sport, than something the creators hold as gospel unless they have made specific statements accordingly. After all saying something in the comic doesn't make it so, people can be mistaken, writers can try and throw us a curveball or they can retcon it next week if they want. However, that line must have been said for a reason as the editors wouldn't let something like that slip through the net if it wasn't part of a broader plan. So it is worth a mention but the wording has to be carefully done - we can report that Bruce Wayne said it but that can't be used to support a statement which says "Alfred Pennyworth is Bruce Wayne's biological father."
 * It is worth bearing in mind that the Joker graphic novel is specifically out of continuity and would be almost impossible to work into any specific continuity unless they ultimately state is part of the DC Multiverse, so might not make a great example here. (Emperor (talk) 20:54, 1 March 2009 (UTC))
 * Thanks for your thoughts :) I didn't have the best example, I know, but I think you wrapped up what I tried to say quite well. :) I'll try to come up with a better example if it's needed but I think that this sums up what I meant to say. The Joker's Woman [ BlackPearl14•contribs! ] 21:16, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm off my rocker. I"M off my rocker??!! Yeah, but I can smile once and a while. (JoeLoeb (talk) 21:36, 1 March 2009 (UTC))
 * Joker's Woman was writing that I'm off my rocker actually, which is why I got into such a spastic rage. The rule is you indent one more than the person you're responding to.  Since Joker's Woman indented once, as you did, we can presume Joker's Woman was responding to me.


 * Also I'd like to apologize further as it didn't occur to me until much later (since getting upset about things tends to make me not think clearly about stuff) the hammer to the head comment seemed to be saying that Joker's Woman is brain damaged. Um, that's not where I was trying to go with that.


 * I'd like to write that I about agree with the sentiment of what has been written since. This could be written out in the next issue of whatever, as has happened before.  (Like the last time someone tried to make Alfred Bruce Wayne's father.)  But, it was written.  And, until DC corrects it...68.49.138.170 (talk) 04:28, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay, looks like we've reached a consensus - and JoeLoeb, I wasn't saying YOU'RE off your rocker haha. As for you ^^, I didn't recognize the changed IP's :) I'm sorry for the non-professional behavior and will strive not to talk like that. This is how we get into fights :P Looks like we'll all be good colleagues from now on, I assume. Until we get further direction from DC in other comics, we won't write on it. And, apology accepted. The Joker's Woman [ BlackPearl14•contribs! ] 20:46, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
 * No worry's, man. Oh, and catch Watchmen in theaters, F the critics! (JoeLoeb (talk) 21:46, 3 March 2009 (UTC))
 * I definitely will. The Joker's Woman [ BlackPearl14•contribs! ] 00:09, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

KANE AND ROBINSON didn't create Alfred
Like the Batcave, Alfred was created by the screenwriters of the 1943 Batman movie serial! It has been a while since I read it but according to BATMAN: The 1940s' NEWS STRIPS intro by Joe Desris, Alfred was written in the script for the series that DC was reviewing. The editor (Whitney Ellsworth?) might have suggested that the character be written in the comic books. However, no one knew what he would look like so Robinson came up with a sterotypical british butler type. However, Bob Kane was on the set of the movie serial and saw that the actor was thin and wore a mustache! When he and Bill Finger started working on the Batman Newspaper strip, they introduced their "new" Alfred, one that resembled the actor! Eventually the comic book version took on the appearance of the Newspaper strip incarnation and was given the grown a mustache\lost weight explanation.MARK VENTURE (talk) 06:21, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

The biography section
The biography section needs to be deleted and re-written by an expert. It is remarkably bare bones, missing many, many essential bits from Alfred's life. Lots42 (talk)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Alfred Pennyworth. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090107135948/http://users.rcn.com/aardy/comics/awards to http://users.rcn.com/aardy/comics/awards/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 02:18, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Alfred Pennyworth
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Alfred Pennyworth's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "VarietyFeb2014": From List of Gotham characters:  From Sean Pertwee:  

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 08:56, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

External links modified (February 2018)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Alfred Pennyworth. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071016055704/http://jam.canoe.ca/Movies/Artists/C/Caine_Michael/2005/06/13/1084190.html to http://jam.canoe.ca/Movies/Artists/C/Caine_Michael/2005/06/13/1084190.html
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0000204/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 19:30, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Film
A hero who deserves to have his story told in the movies. Lourenço Junior (talk) 14:00, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

Thomas Wayne and met at the University of Medicine. Lourenço Junior (talk) 14:03, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

Already in the university it emphasized if being invited to order of Freemasonry. Lourenço Junior (talk) 14:05, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

Few know, but Alfred was the creator of the first quantum computer, the Batcomputer. Lourenço Junior (talk) 14:08, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

more than a friend, he always made a point of being discreet, but the butler has always been a partner of the Wayne Foundation. Lourenço Junior (talk) 14:10, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

Alfred alias(es)?
204.110.121.115 changed Alfred's alias from "Mark Cohen" to "Christopher Miller" with the misleading edit summary "Typo", but I am not familiar with Alfred's alias(es) so i don't know which one is correct. (Although neither is listed in the article's infobox) --EarthFurst (talk) 07:44, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

Image deletion nominations
One or more images currently used in this article have been nominated for deletion as violations of the non-free content criteria (NFCC).

You can read more about what this means and why these files are being nominated for deletion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Comics.

You can participate at the deletion discussion(s) at Files for discussion/2020 May 23. If you are not familiar with NFCC-related deletion discussions, I recommend reading the post linked above first.

Sincerely, The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 07:29, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

Richard Dean Anderson
When did RDA play Alfred? I can't find any reference other than here. At the very least, citation needed UStralian (talk) 04:13, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Alfred Pennyworth
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Alfred Pennyworth's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "ProductionNotes": From Batplane:  From The Dark Knight Rises:  

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. Feel free to remove this comment after fixing the refs. AnomieBOT ⚡ 06:32, 18 June 2023 (UTC)