Talk:Ali/Imamat Ali

Imamat Ali
'Statement of the Imamat of Ali is being made. NOTE: This was not stated in the reverted version made by Striver.

The Messenger of Allah said:

"Whosoever wishes to live and die like me and enter that heaven (after death), which my lord has promised me, namely, the ever lasting heaven should acknowledge Ali (AS) as his patron after me, and after him he should acknowledge the sons of Ali, because they are the people who will never leave you outside the door of guidance nor will they let you enter the door of misguidance." Sunni references:

Kanz al-Ummal, by al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, v6, p155, Tradition #2578 Also abridged Kanz al-Ummal on the margin of Musnad of Ahmad Ibn Hanbal v5, p32

--Zereshk 01:44, 12 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Guys, this is not a trial and you can't constitute yourselves judge and attorney. You have to get real assent from other editors, not just write reams of free association and say "If you don't publicly disagree, I'll assume you agree". NO I DON'T AGREE. Zora 18:37, 13 November 2005 (UTC)


 * You not agreeing about the factuality of the topic is irrelevant. If you find a sourced statement contesting a topic, that would be relevant. Zora pov is personal pov is irrelevant to WP.

Here, ill show you:


 * ''Volume 5, Book 59, Number 728:


 * ''Narrated 'Abdullah bin Abbas:


 * ''Ali bin Abu Talib came out of the house of Allah's Apostle during his fatal illness. The people asked, "O Abu Hasan (i.e. Ali)! How is the health of Allah's Apostle this morning?" 'Ali replied, "He has recovered with the Grace of Allah." 'Abbas bin 'Abdul Muttalib held him by the hand and said to him, "In three days you, by Allah, will be ruled (by somebody else ), And by Allah, I feel that Allah's Apostle will die from this ailment of his, for I know how the faces of the offspring of 'Abdul Muttalib look at the time of their death. So let us go to Allah's Apostle and ask him who will take over the Caliphate. If it is given to us we will know as to it, and if it is given to somebody else, we will inform him so that he may tell the new ruler to take care of us." 'Ali said, "By Allah, if we asked Allah's Apostle for it (i.e. the Caliphate) and he denied it us, the people will never give it to us after that. And by Allah, I will not ask Allah's Apostle for it." Bukhari

Now, that hadith is a obvious forgery, for manny reasons, but that is not the point. The point is that the claim is now disputed by a RELEVANT AND SOURCED scholar. Therefor, it can not be included in the article as factual, untill consensus is reached. And it wount be reached, since Shia and Sunnis will never come to the same conclusion regarding this issue.

Zora, unless you can do the same, that is bringing a RELEVANT AND SOURCED statement, you oppinion is personal is irrelevant to WP. --Striver 01:30, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

'Conclusion of argument irrelevant for reversal to previous version.

'Statement of the Imamat of Ali is disputed.