Talk:Ali al-Hadi/GA1

GA Review
The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.''

Reviewer: Cplakidas (talk · contribs) 16:03, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

Will gladly take this on, but it will be likely a few days before I can devote enough time. Constantine  ✍  16:03, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

(Criteria marked are unassessed)
 * 1) It is reasonably well written.
 * a. (prose, spelling, and grammar):
 * b. (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
 * 1) It is factually accurate and verifiable.
 * a. (reference section):
 * b. (citations to reliable sources):
 * c. (OR):
 * d. (copyvio and plagiarism):
 * 1) It is broad in its coverage.
 * a. (major aspects):
 * b. (focused):
 * 1) It follows the neutral point of view policy.
 * Fair representation without bias:
 * 1) It is stable.
 * No edit wars, etc.:
 * 1) It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
 * a. (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales):
 * b. (appropriate use with suitable captions):
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/fail:
 * 1) It is broad in its coverage.
 * a. (major aspects):
 * b. (focused):
 * 1) It follows the neutral point of view policy.
 * Fair representation without bias:
 * 1) It is stable.
 * No edit wars, etc.:
 * 1) It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
 * a. (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales):
 * b. (appropriate use with suitable captions):
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/fail:
 * No edit wars, etc.:
 * 1) It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
 * a. (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales):
 * b. (appropriate use with suitable captions):
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/fail:
 * b. (appropriate use with suitable captions):
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/fail:
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/fail:
 * Pass/fail:

To save time, I will be doing some minor copyedits straight away. Feel free to challenge them if they appear unreasonable.
 * Lede and infobox
 * There is a recently adopted guideline, MOS:CALLIGRAPHY, concerning calligraphic representations of names; the consensus is that unless these are images with some inherent notability (e.g. the panels in the Hagia Sophia), they should be removed.


 * add 'of Twelver Shia Islam' here or something like 'succeeding his father, Muhammad al-Jawad (d. 835), as leader of the Imamite Shia.'
 * tenth Imam in Twelver Shia


 * not clear if it is meant that he kept aloof from politics in Medina, or he kept aloof from politics (by staying) in Medina. And please link political quietism in Islam here.
 * As with most of his predecessors, he kept aloof from politics until he was summoned from his hometown of Medina around 848 CE to the capital Samarra... the religiously-motivated withdrawal from political affairs or skepticism that mere mortals can establish a true Islamic government.  In contrast, similar to his father and his grandfather, al-Sadiq adopted a quiescent attitude and kept aloof from politics. He viewed the imamate and caliphate as separate institutions until such time that God would make the Imam victorious.
 * Fine for now. But I would suggest that whether voluntary or enforced, quietism is the same political choice, especially since the lack of support never bothered the various Zaydi imams. The Imamite leaders may have awaited more favourable opportunities, but in the meantime they accommodated themselves to the Abbasid status quo (perhaps most notably in al-Ridha's case) in a way the Zaydis or the Ismailis did not.


 * I think once the distinction between CE and AH dates is made clear, it is not necessary to repeat CE constantly, especially since it is assumed that in an English-language encyclopedia, any date without a marker will be a CE date, as e.g. the regnal dates or death dates (conversely, all Hijri dates should be marked as such).
 * Done! This comment was also applied to Muhammad al-Jawad.


 * hmmm, perhaps 'towards the Shia'? It might also be worth (but completely optional) distinguishing throughout the article between 'the Shia' as a movement and 'Shiites' (rather than 'Shias') as adherents of the Shia
 * known for his hostility towards Shias.


 * suggestion to remove 'Imamite' here, if you haven't used it before, as it is a new and unknown term for the average reader. Simply 'religious affairs of the Shia community' or 'of his followers'.
 * religious affairs of the Shia community.


 * 'with the notable exception of  al-Shaykh al-Mufid (d. 1022)'?


 * the last person mentioned is al-Shaykh al-Mufid, so 'The majority of al-Hadi's followers...' or something similar


 * link Sunni, clarify that Samarra is in modern Iraq for context. I would also move the part about his tomb to the end of the lede.
 * the al-Askari shrine in Samarra, located in modern-day Iraq, houses...


 * Titles
 * is unnecessary; this is not an opinion, and the fact is referenced.
 * He was also known as al-Mutawakkil (Arabic: المتوكل على الله, lit. 'he who relies on God'), but this title was perhaps rarely used to avoid confusion with the Abbasid caliph al-Mutawakkil.


 * Is there a special significance to the name Abu'l-Hasan apart from being his kunya? Then this should be explained


 * this can be omitted entirely IMO, or shortened to '...who are also known by the name Abu al-Hasan'. The numbering is pretty clear from the sequence.


 * Birth
 * suggest using CE dates here
 * sometime after 830...


 * 'to perform the Hajj pilgrimage to Mecca' or similar


 * Would recommend merging this into the previous sentence: 'As for his birthplace, the  Ithbat al-wassiya, a collective biography of the Shia imams attributed to the historian al-Mas'udi (d. 956), differs from the prevalent view...' or similar
 * As for his birthplace, the Shia-leaning historian al-Mas'udi (d. 956) differs from the prevalent view. Ithbat al-wassiya, a collective biography of the Shia Imams attributed to him, reports that...


 * Reign of al-Mu'tasim
 * which wife?
 * ...his father al-Jawad and his wife Umm al-Fadl traveled to...


 * better spell out that it is the Dala'il al-im'ama


 * I assume appointed by al-Mu'tasim? If so, then clarify.
 * After the death of his father, the young Ali was likely kept by the Abbasids under the guardianship of caretakers hostile to the Shia cause.


 * decapitalize throughout, unless you refer to the Twelve Imams as a group, or to 'the Imam' as an alternative to 'al-Hadi'
 * Muhammad ibn Faraj, a trusted associate of the Imams,... Muhammad ibn Faraj, a trusted associate of the previous Shia Imams,...


 * 'which is' is redundant
 * Bihar, a seventeenth-century collection of Shia hadiths...


 * per above, either 'to the Shia' or 'to Shias/Shiites', depending on what is meant
 * hostility to Shias.


 * Reign of al-Wathiq
 * 'accession'?
 * It is, but when dealing with religious personalities, 'ascension' has other connotations and I would prefer avoiding it.
 * It is, but when dealing with religious personalities, 'ascension' has other connotations and I would prefer avoiding it.


 * To avoid the repetition, perhaps '...and, according to the early historian Abu al-Faraj al-Isfahani (d. 967), stipends were given to the Alids,[29] the descendants of Ali ibn Abi Talib (d. 661)...'? Also, add here that Ali was the first Shia imam.
 * The Shia community was relatively free in this period, and the early historian Abu al-Faraj al-Isfahani (d. 967) reports that stipends were given to the Alids, that is, the descendants of Ali ibn Abi Talib (d. 661), the first Shia Imam.


 * Was Ibrahim ibn Mahziyar al-Ahwazi a Shia partisan? In what capacity did he visit al-Hadi?
 * An account by Ibrahim ibn Mahziyar al-Ahwazi describes a visit to Ali al-Hadi in 228 AH (842-3) to deliver some goods, accompanied by his brother Ali. The two brothers were trusted associates of al-Jawad.


 * is awkward; e.g. 'According to the Islamicist Shona F. Wardrop, this may be an indication of the young Ali beginning to renew links with the loyal followers of his father, al-Jawad'


 * again, 'accession', and clarigy Mutawakkil's relationship to Wathiq
 * An account in Ithbat from this period might show the political awareness of the young Ali, even though it has been given a miraculous aspect in some other sources. This account is dated 232 AH (846-7) and narrated by a servant in the court of al-Wathiq, named Khayran al-Khadim, whom Ali al-Hadi inquires about the caliph's health. Khayran tells him that al-Wathiq is dying, adding that the general view is that he would be succeeded by his son. Ali, however, correctly predicts the accession of the caliph's brother Ja'far al-Mutawakkil (r. 847–861).

First sections, will do the rest tomorrow. Constantine  ✍  20:34, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Reign of al-Mutawakkil
 * I suggest breaking up the large paragraphs into smaller ones. Walls of text do not encourage readers.


 * for the average reader, the relevance of this to al-Hadi won't be apparent.
 * The caliph is said to have imposed the penalty of death by flagellation on anyone who defamed the companions or the wives of the prophet, some of whom are viewed negatively in Shia.


 * Several localities are mentioned here which will be unknown to most readers. May I suggest including a map like File:Iraq Ninth Century.png here?


 * I guess that the Abna mentioned here is most likely not a locality, but the abna al-dawla?
 * The caliph also created a new army, known as Shakiriyya, which recruited from anti-Alid areas, such as Syria, al-Jazira (Upper Mesopotamia), al-Jabal, Hejaz, and from the Abna, a pro-Abbasid ethnic group.


 * Does al-Jarjara'i have a full name?


 * Can Abd Allah ibn Muhammad be identified? If he is notable (likely, as governor) he should at least be WP:REDLINKed


 * I am pretty certain that this is simply a poetic description of the governor's office. An amir was primarily a military commander, and leading the community to prayer was his most important public/ritual function.
 * It was during the caliphate of al-Mutawakkil that the governor of Medina, Abd Allah ibn Muhammad, wrote to the caliph and warned him about the subversive activities of al-Hadi, claiming that he had concealed arms and books for his followers. Alternatively, the Ithbat attributes the affair to Burahya al-Abbasi, the leader of prayers in Medina, who may have advised the caliph to remove al-Hadi from the city because he was allegedly agitating against the caliph.


 * is rather inaccurate: Samarra was 130km north of the old capital, after all...
 * ...but requested that he with his family relocate to the new Abbasid capital of Samarra, a garrison town where the Turkish guards were stationed, north of Baghdad.


 * again, better continue the sentence, '...and Kitab al-Kafi, a comprehensive collection...'
 * ...and is recorded in Kitab al-Irshad and Kitab al-Kafi, a comprehensive collection of Shia hadiths by the prominent Twelver scholar Muhammad ibn Ya'qub al-Kulayni (d. 941).


 * since this was Ishaq ibn Ibrahim al-Mus'abi, who is mentioned further down (as "al-Tahiri"), please introduce him here.
 * When al-Hadi approached Baghdad, people gathered to see him and he was received warmly by the governor, Ishaq ibn Ibrahim al-Tahiri, who rode out of the city to welcome him.


 * is the full Arabic name important?
 * More specifically, his residence was in the center of the city on Abi Ahmad street.


 * occurs twice, and doesn't tell us much. Are these people historians or theologians? If the latter, pro-Sunni or pro-Shia partisans?


 * Reigns of al-Muntasir (r. 861–862), al-Musta'in (r. 862–866), and al-Mu'tazz (r. 866–869)
 * the section title is unwieldy, recommend something shorter, perhaps 'Later yeas (861–868)'?


 * missing context here. Who was this and what is the relationship to al-Hadi? It is mentioned after, but it makes for puzzlement until one gets there. Generally there is a tendency to contextualize things after they are mentioned. You should avoid this.
 * Also in Egypt, a follower of al-Hadi by the name of Muhammad ibn Hajar was killed and the estate of another follower, Saif ibn al-Layth, was confiscated by the ruler, according to al-Kulayni.


 * Death
 * it would be helpful to remind the reader that al-Rida was al-Hadi's father
 * A similar tradition is ascribed to al-Rida, the eighth of the Twelve Imams,...


 * should probably be linked to Bay'ah


 * he is famous enough that 'named' can be omitted; as a rule of thumb, if somebody is not just an hapax legomenon, let alone if there is an article about them, then 'named' is redundant.
 * The funeral prayer is said to have been led by al-Muwaffaq (d. 891), a brother of the caliph.


 * Introduce Naser al-Din Shah Qajar as ruler of Persia and a Twelver
 * More recently, the complex was rebuilt in 1868-9 at the request of Naser al-Din Shah Qajar (r. 1848–1896), ruler of Persia and a Twelver, and the golden dome was added in 1905.


 * last person mentioned was Naser al-Din Shah Qajar
 * In addition to al-Hadi, the shrine also houses the tombs of his son, Hasan al-Askari...


 * by whom?
 * As an important destination for Shia pilgrimage, the shrine was bombed in February 2006 and badly damaged. Another attack on 13 June 2007 destroyed the two minarets of the shrine. Iraqi authorities hold the Sunni extremist group al-Qaeda responsible for both attacks.


 * Personal traits
 * Introduce Dwight M. Donaldson
 * The historian Dwight M. Donaldson...


 * Hmmm, I would recommend a slight rewrite in this section to emphasize that all these stories are told by later, and mostly partisan, sources about him. We don't actually know his personal traits, only what his followers wanted us to know (or invented wholesale).

Will do the remainder tomorrow. Constantine  ✍  20:12, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
 * You are doing a very good job at it, don't get me wrong. But we have a subject where the details are provided almost exclusively by his partisans and are correspondingly hagiographic, whereas the other sources are relatively silent, so this has to be repeated every now and then for context.


 * Imamate
 * explain what precedent this is
 * As with his father, Ali al-Hadi was still a minor when he succeeded to the imamate at the age of about seven. Thanks to the precedent of al-Jawad, however, the imamate of Ali was widely accepted without much demur,...


 * per above, this is not sufficient introduction (e.g. Iranian jurist or Iranian expert on Islamic law)
 * For the Muslim jurist and academic Hoessin Modarresi, the account of his succession suggests that the seniority of Ali over his brother was not sufficient and the Shia community had to be convinced that Ali was directly appointed by his father.


 * what is the criterion for inclusion?
 * Some of the agents could have their own article and we could include a summary/ part of the article that is more relevant to the life of al-Hadi here.Ghazaalch (talk) 07:07, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I will try to move some of this information to "Notes" section or their own articles. It would take me a day or two hopefully. Ghazaalch (talk) 06:12, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
 * . Done. Feel free to edit the changes.Ghazaalch (talk) 09:28, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Albertatiran (talk) 11:42, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The solution arrived at works very well, thanks to you both.
 * Albertatiran (talk) 11:42, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The solution arrived at works very well, thanks to you both.


 * Link Occultation, gold dinars


 * 'now' may be ambiguous; perhaps 'has been concealed from the public since 874 and is expected to return as the eschatological Mahdi' or similar?
 * ...both about occultation, which is the Twelver belief that al-Askari has a son Muhammad, who has been concealed from the public since 874 and would return as the eschatological Mahdi at the end of time.


 * Miracles
 * Most of these miracles are mentioned earlier, under the biographical section (e.g. the foretelling of Mutawakkil's death or the soldiers not killing him). Since I think we can agree that these are stories reported after the fact to highlight his divine inspiration, I strongly recommend removing them from the prior section; a short note to the effect that many miracles are attributed to him during e.g. during his confinement in Samarra is enough.
 * Among others, multiple accounts in Ithbat and Dala'il al-im'ama show Ali supernaturally alert the very moment his father died.
 * Also dated 861, the biographical al-Khara'ij by the Twelver scholar Qutb al-Din al-Rawandi (d. 1178) similarly reports a house arrest of al-Hadi under Sa'id al-Hajib, who was allegedly ordered to kill the Imam. This time a visitor finds al-Hadi seated next to an open grave in his house but is reassured by him that he would not be harmed because al-Mutawakkil would die shortly.
 * Bihar reports that al-Mutawakkil temporarily forbade his staff from serving al-Hadi, advised by a relative nicknamed Harisa, who warned the caliph that this was boosting the political image of al-Hadi among people. The report has a miraculous ending with the caliph abandoning his policy after an unexpected breeze blew the curtains open for al-Hadi instead of the guards.
 * Ali al-Hadi is also credited in Twelver sources with predicting the death of al-Mutawakkil, who had either imprisoned or humiliated al-Hadi. Wardrop stresses that, while many of these reports might be exaggerated, they are likely based on truth and unwise to ignore [in the bio].
 * Hi If we want to keep the miraculous reports in bio section (i.e. they cannot be separated from bio section), I think we should emphasize that the reports are attributed to Shia belief.Ghazaalch (talk) 07:03, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi If we want to keep the miraculous reports in bio section (i.e. they cannot be separated from bio section), I think we should emphasize that the reports are attributed to Shia belief.Ghazaalch (talk) 07:03, 11 April 2023 (UTC)


 * has already been repeated in the beginning, and is not that relevant here. What is noteworthy is that
 * Don't know what I intended to write with 'What is noteworthy is that...', so just ignore it ;).
 * Don't know what I intended to write with 'What is noteworthy is that...', so just ignore it ;).


 * is the conjecture here that this might be the reason why Hasan wrote these letters, or that he may have written letters to that effect?
 * Still, some considered al-Hadi to be the last Imam, and Hasan is said to have written to Imamite figures across the Abbasid empire to dispel their doubts about his imamate.


 * Succession
 * Have made some copyedits to tighten prose, feel free to revert/discuss


 * are these the same as the Muhammadites? Even if not, should this not be mentioned along with them, rather than here? The whole episode of Fari's challenge to al-Hadi is also something that might be mentioned as an episode of its own earlier in the article.
 * At the same time, some followers of Faris ibn Hatim claimed that the successor of al-Hadi was his son Muhammad, who appointed his brother as the next Imam before his death during the lifetime of al-Hadi. They accordingly accepted the imamate of Ja'far instead of al-Askari. This was apparently an act of defiance to al-Askari, who had sided with his father al-Hadi when he excommunicated his erstwhile agent Faris for embezzling religious dues and openly inciting against him.
 * Faris ibn Hatim ibn Mahawayh al-Qazvini was initially a representative of al-Hadi and his intermediary with the Imamites living in the Jibal (lit. 'mountains'), the region encompassing the central and western parts of modern-day Iran. Faris was involved in a dispute with Ali ibn Ja'far around 248 AH (862) and was consequently banned by al-Hadi from receiving alms on his behalf. He continued to do so, however, without forwarding them to al-Hadi, who excommunicated Faris in 250 AH (864) for embezzling religious dues. Later when Faris continued to openly incite against al-Hadi, the latter called for his death, and he was indeed assassinated during the imamate of Hasan al-Askari.
 * Please link Faris at the first instance, and and  become redundant.
 * Faris ibn Hatim ibn Mahawayh al-Qazvini was initially a representative of al-Hadi and his intermediary with the Imamites living in the Jibal (lit. 'mountains'), the region encompassing the central and western parts of modern-day Iran. Faris was involved in a dispute with Ali ibn Ja'far around 248 AH (862) and was consequently banned by al-Hadi from receiving alms on his behalf. He continued to do so, however, without forwarding them to al-Hadi, who excommunicated Faris in 250 AH (864) for embezzling religious dues. Later when Faris continued to openly incite against al-Hadi, the latter called for his death, and he was indeed assassinated during the imamate of Hasan al-Askari.
 * Please link Faris at the first instance, and and  become redundant.


 * Works
 * has already been glossed


 * I assume that here it is meant in the original sense as 'government', rather than the royal title? Then I would translate it as such.


 * Sources
 * All are high quality RS, and a consistent and clear citation format is used
 * Haven't yet had time to do a copyvio spotcheck, will do at the earliest opportunity.


 * Other remarks
 * As pointed out above, try to split up the large blocks of text into paragraphs. The article is already very dense with information.


 * Optional: keep the AH dates only for the birth, death, and succession dates. Elsewhere use CE.
 * One of the many such accounts about al-Hadi is narrated by Ibrahim ibn Mahziyar, who describes a meeting with a young al-Hadi in 228 AH (842-3)...


 * Optional: consider if you can include the lone footnote into the main text

A very comprehensive article, very well referenced and well written. I worry a bit about overloading the proverbial 'average reader' with information, but I cannot fault your effort here, the transformation of this article is spectacular. Constantine  ✍  21:22, 6 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Albertatiran (talk) 07:43, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
 * here.
 * Oh. Thanks for the link. I suspect this is one of the rules more honoured in the breach than in the observance, though, as I see this very often.
 * Unfortunately no, I couldn't find anything about this. But I suspect that they are two different individuals: the Tahirid was governor of Baghdad, whereas Saymara was a fairly unimportant locality, and above all, the Tahirid is not known to have been dismissed from office (and I doubt anyone with Alid loyalties would remain long as governor of Baghdad).Constantine  ✍  16:38, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The caliph also dismissed officials suspected of Shia sympathies, including the governor of Saymara and Sirawan in the province of Jibal.
 * Unfortunately no, I couldn't find anything about this. But I suspect that they are two different individuals: the Tahirid was governor of Baghdad, whereas Saymara was a fairly unimportant locality, and above all, the Tahirid is not known to have been dismissed from office (and I doubt anyone with Alid loyalties would remain long as governor of Baghdad).Constantine  ✍  16:38, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The caliph also dismissed officials suspected of Shia sympathies, including the governor of Saymara and Sirawan in the province of Jibal.


 * Further comments
 * The lede is bit short for an article of this size. Some sections, e.g. 'Designation' or 'Miracles' are not covered at all. Please ensure that the lede provides a summary of the article body; facts may be selectively expanded upon or summarized depending on importance, but a reader should be able to gain a good idea about the subject as covered in the article even without reading the actual main body.


 * Sobhani 2001 is apparently not (no longer?) used in the article.


 * Apologies for the delay in responding and doing the spotcheck, was unexpectedly away from any decent internet connection for a while. Constantine  ✍  16:38, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Albertatiran (talk) 08:32, 25 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Spotchecks:
 * #17 Pierce, p. 44
 * #27 Pierce, p. 144, he emphasizes that al-Mufid contains unexaggerated accounts; I would recommend including this here, since 'reliable' according to Shia view is not necessarily reliable according to everyone else.
 * al-Irshad, which is considered reliable and unexaggerated by most Shias.


 * #49 Wardrop 1988, p. 112
 * #7 Madelung 1985, some parts are too verbatim, shown by Earwig's tool. Overall however I don't see too much of a close paraphrasing problem, except in the inevitable cases where specific facts have to be repeated, sourced from here. Even there, an effort has been made to rewrite them.
 * In response, the caliph assured al-Hadi of his highest regard for him but... ---> The caliph responded respectfully but... ...Ishaq ibn Ibrahim al-Tahiri, who rode out of the city to welcome him. ---> ...Ishaq ibn Ibrahim al-Tahiri, who welcomed them outside the city. ...but assigned a house for his residence ---> ...but assigned a house for him. ...as he liked the quality of its water and air ---> ...as he liked its good water and air. A theological treatise on free will and some other short texts are ascribed to al-Hadi... ---> A theological treatise on free will and various short texts are attributed to al-Hadi...


 * #30, #33 Wardrop, pp. 107–8 is too close to the original.
 * In the next five years, Ali al-Hadi successfully established contact with representatives from several regions.


 * #74 Hussain 1986, p. 51. hmmm, the latter part at least is directly attributed to al-Masudi, and the house searches are repeated in several locations in the article  so it is not Hussain's opinion, and probably redundant as well. Otherwise
 * but the last author believes that al-Hadi sent and received his messages with secrecy under the watchful eyes of the caliph.


 * #106-108 Wardrop 1988, pp. 147-8.
 * #44 Sajjadi 2018.
 * #96 Esposito 2004, p. 105.
 * #156 Hussain 1986, p. 60.
 * #157 Modarressi 1993, p. 81. with the note that he calls Ali 'Ali al-Talhin' rather than 'Ali b. Talhi' as does Hussain
 * #162 Mavani 2013, p. 147.
 * For urls that point to a paywalled version (e.g. archive.org ones), please add the pertinent access params.

That's it. There's a couple of minor issues outstanding, but I am satisfied that the article fulfils the GA criteria. Once the minor issues are done, I will promote it. Cheers, Constantine  ✍  14:29, 30 April 2023 (UTC) as an aside, and unrelated to this GA process, you might want to submit your articles to the WP:GOCE process. It can do wonders for prose quality, style, and tone. Constantine  ✍  18:58, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi, thank you very much for the new comments. I think they have all been addressed in the current version of the article. GOCE could be a good idea and we'll probably try it for our next article. The downside is their huge backlog, and I'm a bit skeptical about the quality of edits by someone entirely unfamiliar with the topic. But I guess one could also argue that this unfamiliarity could be a good thing. Let's find out next time! Albertatiran (talk) 09:42, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Satisfied with changes/responses, passing now. On the GOCE, you may have to wait a couple of months, it is true. And yes, the unfamiliarity is a double-edged sword, but usually it leads to improvements that make the article more understandable to the average reader. Once again, well done to you and, looking forward to the next imam! Constantine  ✍  12:58, 11 May 2023 (UTC)