Talk:Aliso Creek (Orange County)

Links from other pages
Since the move of this page from Aliso Creek to Aliso Creek (Orange County) many links to this page are broken. Please help fix?

themaee (talk) 01:19, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

History section
History section should be expanded

themaee (talk) 01:42, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Suggestions
Nice-looking page. I used Template:Convert to add or improve metric conversions in the article. It's really handy for river articles, which often require dozens of conversions. The template does the math, uses the correct spelling and the correct abbreviations, and prevents the digits and units from being separated on computer screens by line-wrap. The template requires a bit of study, but it's well worth it. You can look at my examples in edit mode to see how I did cubic feet per second and some others. The |adj parameter is the one that adds the hyphen. The template will round automatically, but if you want to force the rounding, you can add |2 or |1 or whatever as a rounding parameter. I didn't add all of the needed conversions, and you should add them.

I changed the image sizes to "thumb" per the MoS guidelines for images. The bigger image in the geobox is OK up to 300 px.

The other thing that leaps out at me are the references. Instead of bare urls, the references should include author, title, publisher, date of publication, and access date. The "cite" family of templates is handy for providing a list of parameters to fill (or to delete if they don't apply or the information is not available). Learning how to use these templates takes a bit of practice, but they save a lot of trouble in the long run. See WP:CITE for a general explanation and WP:CIT to see the templates, which you can copy and paste into your sandbox or article. Hope this helps. Finetooth (talk) 19:56, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Enthusiasm
I remembered I had used cubic meters rather than cubic meters per second in the discharge templates, and I fixed them just now. I get a little carried away sometimes in my editorial enthusiasm. It would have been more politic to consult with you before barging ahead on the first go-round. I have no more plans to change the article, but I'd be glad to help or advise if asked. Finetooth (talk) 18:19, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Conversions
A major error with the conversions has resulted in hundreds of errors across the article. Please help! themaee  05:30, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
 * It appears this has been fixed. No more help needed. themaee  21:40, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Superfund site?
I'm pretty sure I saw somewhere that Aliso Creek was proposed to be (or is) a Superfund site way back in 2004 (it was proposed back then, I saw it last year.) If someone could get the details on this and find a reliable source, it would benefit the article greatly... Shannon1 talk   contribs  18:32, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Routemap
This won't display without adding a few extra unwanted blank spaces to the section. How do we include this without causing trouble? Shannon1 talk   contribs  22:55, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Suggestions
I'm copying a few of the "Water quality" suggestions I made at FAC to this page. I'll add others below those later today.

Water quality
 * "This is sourced from pet waste, fertilizer, manure, and other organic pollutants that are washed into the creek. This results in a bacterial level 34% higher than levels declared safe under California law." - Maybe combine these to avoid starting three sentences in a row with "This is"? Suggestion: This comes from pet waste, fertilizer, manure, and other organic pollutants that wash into the creek and raise the bacteria level 34 percent higher than levels declared safe under California law." (done)
 * The quote is too short to set off as a blockquote, and the paragraph could nicely be attached to the bigger one above it. Suggestion: "A local activist commented that the water pollution problem has long been ignored by the county: " ...we're sick and tired of it. It's nothing but a cesspool stew, full of pigeons and pigeon droppings and nearly 90-degree water, right at the beach!" (actually, added to the quote)
 * "Ironically, carp... " - Delete "ironically, which is an editorial comment. (done)
 * "to exceed 90 degrees Fahrenheit (32 degrees Celsius)" - Wikipedia's standard format for this is 90 F. (done)
 * "warned in a 1997 study that up to $4.2 million USD in damages" - No need to specify USD in a US-centric article. (done)
 * "Spectacular events have also occurred at English Canyon Creek, an upper tributary of Aliso Creek,... " - Delete "also" since the preceding sentence describes a possible spectacular event but not one that has actually occurred. (done)


 * Finetooth (talk) 16:40, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

General
 * It's possible to hide the "river" label near the top of the geobox by adding the parameter | category_hide = 1 to the geobox. Since Aliso Creek is a creek rather than a river, I thought you might want to hide the "river". (done)

Recreation
 * I changed the conversions to square miles to hectares since the metric equivalent to acres is what's needed.
 * "the only spot in the entire watershed where one can boat is Sulphur Creek Reservoir." - The Manual of Style recommends against using "one" in this way. Suggestion: "the only spot in the entire watershed where boating is feasible is Sulphur Creek Reservoir."
 * "Fishing: The only major spot where one can fish in the Aliso Creek's watershed. " - MOS:BOLD recommends against using bolding for emphasis in situations like this. I'd suggest dropping the bolded words and simply going with straight prose. Also, the use of "one" here needs to be replaced by a different construction. (done)
 * The fishing paragraph lacks a source. (done)

Historic occurrence
 * "It is known that Aliso Creek's polluted water and degraded riparian areas support little native animals and plants." - "few" rather than "little"? (done)
 * "The presence of steelhead trout in Aliso Creek was contested for many years between researchers and long-time residents of the lower Aliso Creek watershed." - "by" rather than "between"? Or perhaps "Researchers and long-time residents disagreed for many years... "? (done)
 * The quote from the National Marine Fisheries Service lacks a set of quotation marks at the end. (done)
 * Items inside a direct quotation should not be wikilinked. (done)
 * et al. takes italics because it's Latin. (done)
 * A range like 10,000–15,000 takes an en dash rather than a hyphen. (done)

I don't want to annoy you with too many suggestions. Please post a note here if you want me to continue. Finetooth (talk) 17:15, 23 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the comments so far, I'll post a reply when I think the article is ready. Shannon  talk   contribs   sign! :) 01:10, 24 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I've nominated the article for PR; you can post your comments over there. Though I am a bit ashamed of myself that Tryon Creek is going to surely beat this article to the position of 10th river FA. :) Shannon talk   contribs   sign! :) 01:38, 2 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Please don't be ashamed. We're all working together toward a common goal, and it's not a race. Also, I try not to assume that my nominations will always meet with success. FAC is not altogether predictable, and I've had more than one uneasy moment while hanging out there. I've got Aliso Creek on my to-do list; I never quite finished commenting on the lower sections, but I will. Finetooth (talk) 01:54, 2 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I was just joking around. After all I consider that a newbie getting a FA is a very big deal. Thanks for all the help though,  Shannon  talk   contribs   sign! :) 02:14, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

(outdent) I just noticed your edits to the page; what is "&nbsp" for? because "50 percent" (without) and "50 percent" (with) look the same... I've seen it used on a lot of other articles, could you explain? Shannon talk   contribs   sign! :) 21:31, 2 October 2009 (UTC)


 * The nbsp code is visible only in edit mode. It's like glue that keeps 50 and percent from becoming separated on computer screens by line break. WP:NBSP has a full explanation. Finetooth (talk) 22:11, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
 * P.S.: The complete code is six characters long; don't forget the semicolon at the end, or it won't work. Finetooth (talk) 22:13, 2 October 2009 (UTC)


 * thanks, I didn't realize that would happen. Shannon  talk   contribs   sign! :) 22:31, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

source for "Alder Creek" as alternate name?
The infobox lists "Alder Creek" as an alternate name in actual use, and its formatting seems to imply that the Durham book is a source. But looking at Durham p. 4 on Google book search, it clearly does not support that. I've never heard of this as "Alder Creek" except as an English translation. I suggest either tracking down a source, or removing “Alder Creek” that from the top of the infobox. –jacobolus (t) 21:56, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I took out “Alder Creek” from the top of the geobox and put it instead in the etymology part of the geobox. Hope that helps.  Shannon   talk   contribs  05:21, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Proposed move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: No move for "Aliso Creek", "Salt Creek" or "List of neighborhoods..."; Silverado Canyon (Orange County) will be moved to Silverado Canyon. Cúchullain t/ c 21:58, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

– Orange County, California is not the primary meaning for Orange County and the vast majority of article are using the full name anyway. Marcus Qwertyus (talk) 17:25, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Aliso Creek (Orange County) → Aliso Creek (Orange County, California)
 * Salt Creek (Orange County) → Salt Creek (Orange County, California)
 * Silverado Canyon (Orange County) → Silverado Canyon (Orange County, California)
 * List of neighborhoods and unincorporated communities in Orange County → List of neighborhoods and unincorporated communities in Orange County, California
 *  Support Comment: Seems pretty logical, with the exception of Silverado Canyon (Orange County).  At the moment Silverado Canyon redirects to this page, but Silverado Canyon, California redirects to Silverado, California, which doesn't seem to make much sense.  Suggest we ditch that redirect and move this one to Silverado Canyon, redirecting Silverado Canyon, California to this article.  Skinsmoke (talk) 12:26, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
 * That can be arranged. Marcus Qwertyus (talk) 04:01, 15 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Oppose for this page - according to the USGS, Orange County, California is the only Orange County in the US that has an Aliso Creek, so I don't see why a move must be made. Shann º n   04:17, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose for the creeks and the canyon. Absent evidence that there are other counties named Orange County that have an Aliso Creek, a Salt Creek, or a Silverado Canyon, it is unnecessary to disambiguate further. Of course, it would be perfectly fine to redirect Aliso Creek (Orange County, California) to Aliso Creek (Orange County). However, Support as to List of neighborhoods and unincorporated communities in Orange County, as there are likely to be multiple counties named Orange County that have neighborhoods and unincorporated communities. Cheers! bd2412  T 13:03, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose Unless a given entity is in more than one Orange County, disambiguating with just Orange County is sufficiently precise. --Born2cycle (talk) 19:54, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Support ambigous disambiguators should not be used, the disambiguator should be as disambiguous as it s corresponding article name, or more disambiguous. -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 02:54, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Support: Move of List of neighborhoods and unicorporated communities, which appears to be unchallenged. Skinsmoke (talk) 14:09, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose: Move of canyons and creeks. Born2cycle is correct that there is no need to disambiguate just for the sake of it.  Would still suggest that Silverado Canyon should move to Silverado Canyon though as nothing to disambiguate from.  Silverado Canyon, California should redirect to the canyon, not the community.  Skinsmoke (talk) 14:09, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 7 external links on Aliso Creek (Orange County). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070715054500/http://www.waterrights.ca.gov/hearings/decisions/WRD386.pdf to http://www.waterrights.ca.gov/hearings/decisions/WRD386.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080418103115/http://www.clearcreeksystems.com/oc1/ to http://www.clearcreeksystems.com/oc1/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081202072118/http://www.nrdc.org/media/pressreleases/060803_ca.asp to http://www.nrdc.org/media/pressReleases/060803_ca.asp
 * Added tag to http://laguna.our-hometown.com/news/2008-06-27/Front_Page/Steelhead_Spawn_a_New_Water_War.html
 * Added tag to http://latimes.perfectmarket.com/1994-03-13/news/mn-33637_1_southern-california?pg=1
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090201004808/http://www.biketrails.com/alisowood.html to http://www.biketrails.com/alisowood.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090408072020/http://www.ocalmanac.com/History/hi01d.htm to http://www.ocalmanac.com/History/hi01d.htm
 * Added archive http://www.webcitation.org/5nKpZpdXE?url=http://www.cityofalisoviejo.com/environmental_care/Wood_Canyon_Wetlands.pdf to http://www.cityofalisoviejo.com/environmental_care/Wood_Canyon_Wetlands.pdf
 * Added archive http://www.webcitation.org/5nKpZpdXE?url=http://www.cityofalisoviejo.com/environmental_care/Wood_Canyon_Wetlands.pdf to http://www.cityofalisoviejo.com/environmental_care/Wood_Canyon_Wetlands.pdf

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 22:28, 1 July 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Aliso Creek (Orange County). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090427144249/http://www.ocwatersheds.com/watersheds/alisocreek_land_use.asp to http://www.ocwatersheds.com/watersheds/alisocreek_land_use.asp
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20091214171443/http://www.swrcb.ca.gov/water_issues/programs/septic_tanks/docs/draft_eir/maps/appendix_e1_maps_index.pdf to http://www.swrcb.ca.gov/water_issues/programs/septic_tanks/docs/draft_eir/maps/appendix_e1_maps_index.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090327124321/http://www.projectcleanwater.org/html/ws_san_juan.html to http://www.projectcleanwater.org/html/ws_san_juan.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 12:34, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Aliso Creek (Orange County). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111018005429/http://ecos.fws.gov/docs/federal_register/fr3676.pdf to http://ecos.fws.gov/docs/federal_register/fr3676.pdf

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 11:25, 29 September 2017 (UTC)