Talk:AliveCor

Request for Review
I have created a draft for a new article about Alivecor. While I am an experienced Wikipedia editor who has written many articles, here I have a conflict of interest as a paid consultant to Alivecor. I have tried to abide by the Wikipedia five pillars and all Wikipedia policy, including establishing notability, using reliable sources, neutral point of view, non-promotional language, etc. But of course, as per WP: COI, I am requesting that an independent editor review this draft prior to publication and if it is acceptable, move it to the main space.

I am available and glad to do further work as requested. BC1278 (talk) 18:20, 14 April 2018 (UTC)BC1278 (talk) 23:06, 2 April 2018 (UTC)BC1278

I'll try and work through it over the next few days. One immediate suggestion is that some of the citations need work as they don't always directly provide evidence for some of the detail in the statements and are not always clearly from independent sources. You might consider using the NICE Medtech innovation briefing (https://www.nice.org.uk/advice/mib35/resources/alivecor-heart-monitor-and-aliveecg-app-kardia-mobile-for-detecting-atrial-fibrillation-pdf-63499107274693) as a source. Adh30 (talk) 07:23, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for reviewing this, user:Adh30. I'm usually very careful about being sure an independent source supports any statement it is used as a citation for. There are instances where there are two citations for the same sentence and in that case, it may be that I pulled some facts from the statement from one source and some from the other. However, I know that it's burdensome to go fishing for the exact fact supported within an independent source. I actually have yellow highlighted all the sources I used so I could keep track. I can therefore quickly tell you where to find the supporting statement within an independent source if you can;t find it. Just feel free to ask. There's always the chance that I messed something up, in which case I will provide an alternate source. Thanks BC1278 (talk) 18:20, 14 April 2018 (UTC)BC1278 (talk) 15:22, 9 April 2018 (UTC)BC1278 Thanks. I'll put [citation needed] where I think the citation is either missing or doesnt provide good evidence Adh (talk) 18:00, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Hi Adh. I've filled in the missing citations.


 * The single lead vs, 12-lead 2012 study was presented as an abstract at a scientific conference
 * The ease of use study that led to two patient diagnosis was also a poster presentation at a scientific conference
 * The FDA clearancethat followed is documented in two secondary sources from 2012.
 * For the algorithm FDA clearance, I found a secondary source that discussed two 2015 algorithm clearances, so I replaced 2015 for 2014.

If you think the article is now acceptable, will you move it from draft to live? As per WP: COI, I shouldn't be the one to move it. Thanks very much for your review and help! Ed BC1278 (talk) 18:20, 14 April 2018 (UTC)BC1278 (talk)BC1278

Done Adh (talk) 09:02, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

Copy Conversation from my Talk page
Hi BC1278,

I wonder if a better way to write about the topic would be instead to write about the Kardiaband, rather than writing about Alivecor. Some of the references seem to take that approach.

Would you be amenable to that approach?

Bakerstmd 17:25, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

Hi user: Bakerstmd. Thanks for writing with your idea. I did think about a separate story for KardiaBand as a possibility at some point. Aside from the research to date, there is significant ongoing clinical research with the Mayo Clinic, Cleveland Clinic and Columbia that will likely result in more peer reviewed academic articles and additional FDA and EU approvals for the device and software.

But in this case, Alivecor is not a single product company. Kardia Mobile is still an important product and widely used because it does not require an Apple Watch, just a smart phone. This has been the main product of the company for many years and also has a bunch of clinical research. Kardia Pro, for physicians to monitor multiple patients with devices, works with both Kardia Mobile and KardiaBand.

And while I don't mention this in the article, publications have mentioned that the company may negotiate to license its FDA approved diagnostic AI software to other device makers. I didn't include it yet because of WP:CRYSTAL This is separate from the ECG medical device.

So, this is a multiproduct company and we'd lose too much current and future information if we only wrote about KardiaBand.

There's also the business angle. They hired a well known CEO from Google and a prominent engineering team. And they have financing from well known companies and the Mayo Clinic. All this would be lost without an Alivecor article. The company qualifies as notable separate from KardiaBand press. It had many years of press and peer reviewed academic articles before KardiaBand.

I think that the best short term solution is to place a KardiaBand forward to Alivecor, once it is live, in case anyone searches KardiaBand. And if the research findings on KardiaBand become too involved for the Alivecor article, then someone can consider a separate article.

We might also put the Products section above the History if there is a concern that a patient doing research might not get to the most relevant information quickly enough.

There is already a review going on with another editor, on the Talk page, so I'd suggest consolidating this discussion there. I will copy and paste it. BC1278 (talk) 18:20, 14 April 2018 (UTC)BC1278

Request Edits May 20 2020
I work for Alivecor and am contacting Wikipedia because some of the article information needs to be updated. I will follow the Wikipedia policy that says I should not directly edit the article and I should post my requests here on Talk for review by independent editors.

First, I'd like to request an addition to the "History" section about the departures and hirings of the CEOS. In February 2018, founding CEO Vic Gundotra left the company and Ira Bahr was appointed as interim CEO. Priya Abani, formerly the general manager and director of Alexa at Amazon, was hired as the new CEO in July 2019.

I would suggest this new paragraph be the new 14th paragraph of the "History" section, following this sentence:

"Fast Company ranked Alivecor number one in artificial intelligence in its 2018 list of the "World's Most Innovative Companies."

Second, in the section called Products, I'd suggest edtine the sub-section called "KardiaBand" to remove possibly promotional language To wit, delete the second sentence of the first paragraph of this sub-section:

The device's SmartRhythm software uses artificial intelligence to continuously analyze data from the built-in heart-rate sensor and accelerometer to spot unexpected patterns.

And delete the second and third sentences of the second paragraph:

The device indicates to the user whether there is a normal or abnormal result. Full ECG readings can be shared externally, such as with a physician, for additional analysis.

And delete the sentence that makes up the third paragraph:

The product is connected to an iPhone app for storing data. It also works on its own, away from an iPhone or offline.

Third, with these deletions, I believe the "written like an advertisement" label above the Products section is taken care of and the label should be removed. The remaining two sub-sections - KardiaMobile and KardiaPro - are short and tersely worded. After looking at the Wikipedia policy on "neutral point of view" and "what is not", I believe these two sections comply. These two are sections are "written in an objective and unbiased style, free of puffery" and are "verifiable with independent, third-party sources."

Thank you for your review of these suggestions. Please let me know if you'd like me to do anything else. JerryGraf (talk) 19:48, 20 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Your suggestions seem very reasonable. I've taken them a bit further in the products section and I think it reads in a more encyclopaedic way now. I rearranged the sections as it seems slightly counterintuitive to start with a discontinued product. PeaBrainC (talk) 05:38, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

Edit Request
I'm working with AliveCor and so won't be editing this myself. Instead, please consider these connected requests, some of which are to update the article, and some of which are to address the two flags.

1) Please add David Albert to the key people field |key_people = Priya Abani, CEO David Albert, Chief Medical Officer
 * Xan747 (talk) 23:20, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

2) A shorter lead would be better. Please consider this version. AliveCor is a medical device and AI company that develops ECG hardware and software compatible with consumer mobile devices to enable remote heart rhythm monitoring and detection of abnormal heart rhythms, or arrhythmias. AliveCor was founded in 2011 and is headquartered in Mountain View, California, the United States.
 * Xan747 (talk) 23:24, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

3) Please update the headcount. The best source I could find is Crunchbase. |num_employees = 101-250
 * per WP:CRUNCHBASE (user-generated content) Xan747 (talk) 23:32, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

4) Please add the founding year to the history section. AliveCor was co-founded in 2011 by David Albert...
 * Xan747 (talk) 23:28, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

5) Satchwell and Barnett were not named on the patent filing. Please replace the last sentence of the first history paragraph with this one, to be more accurate: Their work led to a 1998 patent for wireless transmission of ECGs in handheld devices.
 * Xan747 (talk)

6) The first sentence of the third history paragraph reads better as: In 2012, AliveCor released an FDA-cleared smart-phone case that functioned as an ECG. The FDA doesn't approve - it "clears". Also, my new code names the ref, for the next section.
 * Xan747 (talk) 00:05, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

7) The two trials in the rest of the third history paragraph need to be clarified to be more accurate. Lengthy text with sources follow, which also fixes a broken link: To secure the FDA-clearance, AliveCor ran a clinical trial to test both the device hardware and the associated smartphone app. The study investigated how the single-lead ECG compared to a traditional 12-lead device. A second study looked at whether 54 participants with no medical training could determine how to use the phone case to record ECG's on themselves and others. The latter study revealed two subjects with serious heart conditions.
 * Xan747 (talk) 00:28, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

8) The fifth paragraph in the history section can be rewritten to more accurately reflect the source: While its first generations of AliveCor's ECG devices relied on medical professionals to analyze readings, in 2015, the company received FDA clearance to use algorithmic analysis of readings to instantly identify certain heart rhythm abnormalities.
 * but I reworded because "algorithmic analysis" is a little too much jargon for my liking. Revised sentence now reads, While its first-generation ECG devices relied on medical professionals to analyze readings, in 2015, the company received FDA clearance to have the device itself instantly notify the user if certain heart rhythm abnormalities were detected. Xan747 (talk) 00:46, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

9) The sixth history paragraph can be shortened to the following, to address the flags: In 2017, the company introduced software that used neural networks to "train" its products to detect heart problems. After about a month of product use, the software could build a heart profile of the specific user to detect potential heart rhythm problems.
 * Yes, that's much better, but I made some modifications that I think better reflect what the software is doing: In 2017, the company introduced software that used a neural network to build a profile of the user's ECG patterns over the course of about a month. Then later, if something changes, the device can alert the patient's doctor of a potential abnormality even if couldn't make a specific diagnosis. Xan747 (talk) 01:21, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

10) Please remove the following as being dated, and not that noteworthy, to address the flags: AliveCor had recorded about 20 million ECGs by November 2017.


 * Xan747 (talk) 01:21, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

11) We can remove the ninth and tenth paragraphs of the history section, to address the noteworthy flags. The research was not that noteworthy, especially given that the product used for the research was discontinued.


 * Xan747 (talk) 01:33, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

12) The Fast Company accolade can be reworded to rad better, and can be moved chronologically after 2017: In 2018, Fast Company ranked AliveCor number one in artificial intelligence in its list of the "World's Most Innovative Companies."


 * Xan747 (talk) 01:33, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

13) The article should tell readers in the history section that the Kardiaband product was discontinued: In 2019, the company ended sales of the KardiaBand ECG reader.


 * That sentence was already in the section, but I moved it to the end of the earlier paragraph about Kardiaband for better continuity of that particular product's history. Xan747 (talk) 01:40, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

14) The 2021 item about the products being tested in 160 clinical studies is poorly sourced. Can we replace it with this better-sourced item? As of 2023, AliveCor's products were featured in over 200 research articles published in peer-reviewed journals.


 * Xan747 (talk) 01:33, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

15) The litigation against Apple should be updated and makes more sense in the history section. Can you create an indented subsection called Litigation against Apple, with the following information? It  In 2021, AliveCor filed a federal antitrust lawsuit against Apple over its exclusion of other heartrate analysis providers from the Apple Watch. The same year, AliveCor filed a complaint with the U.S. International Trade Commission (ITC), alleging Apple’s infringement of three AliveCor patents.

In December 2022, the U.S. International Trade Commission (ITC) ruled that Apple Watch infringed AliveCor’s patents and issued a Limited Exclusion Order and a cease and desist order, and set a bond in the amount of $2.00 per unit of infringing Apple Watches imported or sold during the Presidential review period.

Following a 60-day Presidential review period, President Biden declined to veto the ITC ruling – the first ITC ruling against Apple to clear presidential review. The process reportedly could take up to 18 months before any orders take effect.


 * with extensive modifications. In addition to some rephrasing for various reasons, I added the details that Apple counter-sued for violations of its own patents dating to 2008, that the three patents AliveCor claimed Apple had violated were invalidated by the USPTO in Dec. 2022 at Apple's request, and that the 2021 antitrust lawsuit against Apple was dismissed in 2023 by the U.S. district court in Oakland, CA. I also renamed the section, "Lawsuits involving Apple" to better reflect the bi-directionality of litigation.

Lawsuits involving Apple

In December 2020, AliveCor sued Apple, alleging that Apple Watch Series 4, 5, and 6 infringed three of its patents by copying technologies used in the KardiaBand ECG reader. Then in April 2021, AliveCor filed a complaint with the U.S. International Trade Commission (ITC), alleging infringement of the same three patents, and asked the ITC to block Apple from importing Apple Watches manufactured overseas. The following month, AliveCor filed a federal antitrust lawsuit against Apple, claiming Apple sought to monopolize the heartrate analysis market by changing the watch's operating system to be incompatible with rival technolgies.

On December 2, 2022, Apple sued AliveCor, claiming AliveCor copied technologies Apple had developed in 2008, two years before AliveCor was founded, and therefore its patent rights had been violated. On December 6, the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) invalidated the three AliveCor patents in response to an earlier request by Apple. On December 22, the ITC ruled that Apple Watch infringed two of the three patents, and that their import should be banned. The Biden administration was given 60 days to decide whether to veto the ruling, and a $2.00 per unit bond for was set for watches imported or sold during the review period. However, the ITC suspended enforcement of both the import ban and bond assessment pending the outcome of appeals challenging the USPTO decision. President Biden upheld the ITC ruling in February 2023 – the first ITC ruling against Apple to clear presidential review. It was estimated that court appeals pursued by both companies could delay any orders taking effect for up to 18 months.

In June 2023, a U.S. district court judge dismissed AliveCor's 2021 antitrust lawsuit against Apple.


 * Please feel free to discuss further. Xan747 (talk)

17) The company's product line has changed since the information was added. Below is the current product info with sources. Apologies for the length.
 * KardiaMobile - KardiaMobile is a smartphone-connected ECG recorder for personal use The user places his or her fingertips on a device the size of a stick of chewing gum for about 30 seconds to record an ECG on their smartphone. The results can be read by the user or sent to a physician for analysis. KardiaMobile was cleared by the FDA in 2012 for detecting atrial fibrillation and normal sinus rhythm.


 * KardiaMobile 6L - In 2019, AliveCor received FDA clearance for KardiaMobile 6L, the first six-lead personal ECG device. In 2021, KardiaMobile 6L was cleared by the FDA for healthcare professionals to use to calculate patients’ QTc interval, a heart rate corrected interval that reflects the integrity of the heart's electrical recharging system.


 * KardiaMobile Card - In late 2021, AliveCor received FDA clearance for the KardiaMobile Card, a personal ECG device with the size and dimensions of a credit card.


 * KardiaCare - KardiaCare is a digital health subscription service that AliveCor introduced in 2020, to provide ECG evaluations and other related services that can be shared with caregivers.


 * KardiaComplete - In 2022, AliveCor introduced KardiaComplete, a cardiovascular enterprise service for employers and health insurers to offer to employees and members. The service provides customers with AliveCor's KardiaMobile 6L and Omron’s Evolv blood pressure cuff to monitor their heart health, and includes heart data analyses, health coaching and a virtual assistant.


 * KardiaPro - KardiaPro is a platform for doctors to monitor their patients using Kardia devices. The platform alerts doctors when a patient's device detects an abnormality. KardiaPro also tracks patient risk factors, including weight, activity and blood pressure and analyzes them with AI to alert doctors to potential issues.
 * AliveCor Labs - In 2021, AliveCor introduced AliveCor Labs, an independent diagnostic testing facility that offers reimbursed cardiac monitoring services to U.S. healthcare providers.


 * with one small prose modification (changed "his or her" to "their") and Bad link replaced with and bad link replaced with.


 * Xan747 (talk) 22:10, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

18) There's updated financing news that can go in the financing section: In 2022, AliveCor announced that it had completed its Series F financing round, led by GE Healthcare with participation from Khosla Ventures, Bold Capital Partners, Qualcomm Ventures, WP Global Partners and Pegasus Tech Ventures.


 * I moved the 2017 funding round to the beginning of the section to establish chronological order, and included the to-date funding amount per the existing source, and some other light editing. Xan747 (talk) 13:46, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

19) The full ref will need to be filed in after the ref name ":4" following the Omron and Mayo financing sentence:

this was tricky because the website moved the article to a different URL that hadn't been archived; however, the original URL had been archived. So I modified the citation to use the current live URL, but the archive of the original URL. Confused yet? Me too. In any case, here's the modified citation.


 * Xan747 (talk) 13:46, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

20) The leadership section should be moved to the bottom as a standalone section, and not in the history section.


 * this section has been removed entirely in this diff by an experienced editor who cited WP:NOTADIRECTORY as the reason. Xan747 (talk) 14:40, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

21) Can we make the following wording changes to the leadership section, to shorten and update it, and remove the nonessential info, to address the flags? The company appointed former Google and Microsoft executive Vic Gundotra as its CEO in November 2016. After Gunotra departed in February 2018, Ira Bahr was appointed as interim CEO.


 * using the same rationale as in item 20. Xan747 (talk) 14:40, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

22) I'd like to include a new leadership subsection for CEO Priya Abani. This will help if anyone thinks there's an opportunity to fork her bio into a standalone article, per the Women in Red gender initiative.

Priya Abani
Priya Abani joined AliveCor as CEO in 2019. Before joining the company, Abani served as general manager and director of Alexa voice services. Prior to that, she held several positions at Intel, where she worked in customer enablement and solutions integration.

In her time as CEO, Abani has been elected to the Jacobs Board of Directors and TIAA Bank’s Board of Trustees.


 * I could not find any coverage of her by major news agencies. By far the most hits are from company websites and press releases published by PR agencies. Her prior experience looks like a routine career path for a CEO that wouldn't be included in an article about a business even if the person was notable enough for their own article. Xan747 (talk) 14:40, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Teles24 (talk) 19:41, 1 August 2023 (UTC)


 * @Teles24, I got through item 14. If I can't get to the rest of them tomorrow, I will set the answered flag to no to attract other editors. Regards, Xan747 (talk) 01:44, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @Teles24, I have now answered all of the items. Your feedback is welcome; feel free to ping me with any suggestions.
 * @Spintendo, I would appreciate your audit of my most recent changes to the article. My own sense is that there's too much duplication between the product listing and history sections, and generally too much detail in both. And reading back the lawsuits section, I think it could also be trimmed. Thanks, Xan747 (talk) 14:56, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Edit request 8-10-23
Thank you for your help so far. I'm working with AliveCor and so won't be editing this myself. Instead, please consider these connected requests, which are intended to update the article with the leadership history, as a revision of the previous update request which was deemed too directory-like, and to update the logo.

1) Please add this to the history section just before the 2016 info: The company appointed former Google and Microsoft executive Vic Gundotra as its CEO in November 2016.

2) Please add this to the history section just before the 2019 info (the last sentence before the apple section): After Gunotra departed in February 2018, Ira Bahr was appointed as interim CEO.

3) Please add this to the history section at the bottom, just before the apple section): Priya Abani joined AliveCor as CEO in 2019. Before joining the company, Abani served as general manager and director of Alexa voice services.

4) Our logo has changed. Please update it with our new one, which I uploaded here:  Teles24 (talk) 18:37, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I made the changes, including updating your logo. I don't know what the strange mimecast links were, so I changed them all to regular links. Also, the source for your first request was a dead link. I found another source. It says Gundotra became CEO in November 2015, not 2016, so I changed it in your request. If that's wrong, you need to notify Medgadget and post an update request with an accurate reliable source. I'm also removing the tags. There have been several editors who went through this and addressed the advertising and noteworthy facts. STEM info  (talk) 19:28, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Edit request 9-12-23
I have a new request to correct the article. This time, it's related to the ongoing litigation with Apple in AliveCor. The last sentence of the section is incorrect. If you read the source, you'll see that the litigation has not been dismissed. It was only one antitrust motion filed by AliveCor that was dismissed. You'll notice that the article title is currently incorrect. Can you replace that last sentence with the following paragraph, to correct the article? Pinging who kindly helped us before.

In June 2023, a U.S. district court judge ruled against AliveCor in its 2021 antitrust lawsuit against Apple, but AliveCor's unfair competition claim against Apple is ongoing as of September 2023. Both parties were scheduled to return to court in October 2023 for dispositive motions.

Thank you. Teles24 (talk) 12:23, 12 September 2023 (UTC) Teles24 (talk) 12:23, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ The courtcase article is confusing, but it appears to be ongoing, so I made the changes.  Ping me in October when the case resumes and I'll update the article. I also removed some of those strange mimecast links in the other sources.  In the future, it would be helpful if you just used regular URLs.  STEM info  (talk) 18:14, 12 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your help . I'll ping you if there's new information to add in October. Teles24 (talk) 13:13, 14 September 2023 (UTC)