Talk:Alka Yagnik/Archive 1

CleanUp Notice
I added a cleanup notice - this article desperately needs cleanup. Wiki is an encyclopedia, not a fan club webpage where you can keep raving un-encyclopedically about your favorite singer. I will try to clean this up over the next few days.

--ashwatha 16:48, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Date of birth
From all I have read online (including IMDB.com and Wikipedia's March 20 list of birthdays) she was born on March 20, 1966. Currently it is listed on this page as September 12, 1965, but it is the only source I have found for that date.

Oobleckboy (talk) 15:23, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

Who says she is dead???
Some person has added her date of death!! This is a serious, the admin must look after these changes.

---pranavaswaroop —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.92.197.112 (talk) 09:56, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Cleaning the article
tried to clean the article a bit. cut some "fan" info, and have pasted it here:' Selected discography Some of the famous movies that she has sung for include the following:
 * Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak ("From Apocalypse to Apocalypse,” 1988)
 * Deewana (Insane)
 * Baazigar ("Gambler", 1993)
 * Hum Hain Rahi Pyar Ke ("We Are Travelers on the Road of Love," 1993)
 * Akele Hum Akele Tum ("I Am Alone, You Are Alone," 1995)
 * Khamoshi ("Silence," 1996)
 * Raja Hindustani (1996)
 * Kuch Kuch Hota Hai ("Something Is Happening," 1998)
 * Taal ("Rhythm," 1999)
 * Kabhi Khushi Kabhie Gham ("Sometimes Happiness, Sometimes Sadness," 2001)
 * “Hindi Sad Diamonds” (2001, with Nicole Kidman & John Leguizamo, in Moulin Rouge!)

--Dhirad 15:26, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

There seems to be a conflict in the date of birth mentioned at the beginning of the main article and the date captioned under the photograph on the side.195.229.236.212 (talk) 17:52, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Devanangari transcription
I corrected the Devanagari transcription. It had said *अल्का यागनिक which was absolutely wrong and looks like a transliteration of “Alka Yagnik” from the Latin alphabet into Devanagari without thought to proper spelling. Her name is really Alakā Yājnyik and is rendered अलका याज्ञिक on her Marathi Wikipedia page as well as on every soundtrack record in my collection that uses Devanagari script. Her Hindi Wikipedia page renders her name अलका याज्ञनिक which gets more Google hits than अलका याज्ञिक, so I included them both assuming them to be variant spellings. Elyaqim (talk) 19:19, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Adding more songs on the filmography list
There are too few songs listed in the filmography list and does not include her popular songs. I have added some of her popular songs and expanded the list. All the songs are genuine and may be externally verified. Only if some information is found to be fictitious, may the content be reverted but I assure not a single information added is fake. Next time, some reversion is done, please provide reasons in this page. --AbhirupKesab (talk) 19:45, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

20,000 songs?
I can't find any source which would prove Yagnik has recorded over 20,000 songs in her career. An awards show cannot really be counted as a reliable source, and in anyway, this is a tall claim in need of more sources. What I find funnier is that last year the Guinness Book of World Records officially acknowledged Bhosle as the most recorded artist in music history for "recording up to 11,000 solo, duet and chorus-backed songs and in over 20 Indian languages since 1947". Now this really comes to show the lack of credibility this claim has, and I would appreciate more evidence for what clearly is false information. Shahid •  Talk 2 me  14:24, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Alka Yagnik: Age 46, started singing at the age of 6. Thus 40 x 365 = 14,600. So she recorded one song per day and two songs on all days for approx 15 years. That makes her a superwoman! I am actually excluding the fact that her first song for film was recorded at the age of 13. Lets assume she recorded other songs till then. Came across this maths on Lata Mangeshkar's discussion and loved it! Hence thought of trying it here. -Animeshkulkarni (talk) 15:14, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Also her IMDb filmography lists 609 films. 20000/609 = 32.84. Average 32 songs per film?!?! Assuming she sang only for films. The article doesnt currently say anything of her non-filmi career and recordings. -Animeshkulkarni (talk) 15:18, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I doubt that she has sung over 20000 songs. Although she was regular singer of most of the films from 90s and early 2000s, she can't have sang over 20000 songs (whether its filmi or non-filmi) and also that there is no source that proves this. In my opionion she has not sung over 3000 filmi songs. If we have to take with both filmi and non-filmi songs that the number is not over 4000. Torreslfchero (talk) 16:23, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

See another source http://ibnlive.in.com/news/playlist-the-best-of-birthday-girl-alka-yagnik/240724-45.html. She sang continuously in 80's, 90's & 2000's. During the 90's she has herself admitted in interviews that she was recording 2-3 songs per day. Impossible that she's sung only for 600 films. Further if you don't trust the other source which is a live Screen Award video then you should delete Screen Awards altogether. These two sources should more than sufficient. ANKMALI (talk) 01:38, 1 April 2012 (UTC)


 * An award function cannot be counted as a credible source - such controversial claims must be sourced to well-researched articles. Furthermore, the IBN link is a mirror of the WP article. Shahid  •  Talk 2 me  21:03, 1 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Take a look at the "copyvio" section, below. The IBN article was mostly copied from Wikipedia, so it obviously fails WP:RS. Good on Elen for catching that. –  OhioStandard  (talk) 22:52, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

The current source IMDB cited by User: Shshshsh is incomplete as far as her filmography is concerned & thus unreliable. No mention of movies like Slumdog Millionare, Raaz , Saawariya , Imtihaan to name a few in which Alka gave chartbuters. These are only her popular scores, god knows how many films IMDB has left out. Further this is only her Hindi filmography whereas she has sung in 20 different languages !! Better not to put any no. if you have no valid proof for the same!! ANKMALI (talk) 01:43, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Copyvio
I have removed the entire early life section and one para from the career section, as it is a cut and paste job from. Do not revert me (or there will be consequences) instead please rewrite the content in your own words, preferably with more than one source. Thank you. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 21:25, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, on checking the dates, that article is copying Wikipedia, not the other way around! It went out on 19th March 2012, but the Wikipedia article had that text well before this date. Naughty naughty! IBN Live :) --Elen of the Roads (talk) 22:15, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Sung for Three Generation of Actresses
She has lent her voice for three generation of actresses ranging from Hema Malini, Rekha, Shabana Azmi, Rakhi Gulzar to Sridevi, Madhuri Dixit, Raveena Tandon, Manisha Koirala, Juhi Chawla, Kajol, Tabu, Rani Mukerji, Preity Zinta, Karisma Kapoor, Divya Bharti, Aishwarya Rai, Urmila Matondkar, Shilpa Shetty, Sushmita Sen, Pooja Bhatt to Kareena Kapoor, Priyanka Chopra, Ameesha Patel, Esha Deol, Natassha, Dia Mirza, Bipasha Basu, Katrina Kaif, Lara Dutta, Tanushree Dutta and many others.

This a big achievment for any singer & cannot be belittled. --ANKMALI (talk) 11:05, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Playback singers usually sing for all actress/actors. I quite agree that its a achivement but in my opinion this is quite unnecessary, If we have to add all the actress name then the list goes on and on. The article should mostly focus on music directors and singer's collaboration rather than actress/actors. If you look on other singers' page [(like Mohammed Rafi, Asha Bhosle, Kishore Kumar) then those are mostly absent. In some cases some actors/actress are mentionded within the music directors section, e.g. Mohammed Rafi sang mostly under Shankar Jaikishan and also that Rafi mostly provided his voice for actor, Shammi Kapoor]. Torreslfchero (talk) 12:15, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

But the fact that she has sung for three generations of actresses can be added without naming them. --ANKMALI (talk) 12:52, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

BLP sources
This is a reply that I put on my talk page, but I'm reposting it here in case other editors can help deal with the issues:
 * I have my doubts whether 'Bollywood Hungama' would pass WP:RS. It is currently being used as a source for "She also holds the record for most awards won (7) as well as maximum nominations (35) in Best Female Playback category at the Filmfare Awards", but the linked page appears to list three films relating to a different person. These awards need to be reliably sourced. I also have doubts over desimartini.com as a reliable source. In terms of article content, there are claims of "two times recipient of the National Film Award", which isn't sourced. There is no source for her date or place of birth and the whole 'Early life and background' section is unsourced. The Career section only has sources for singing for Akashvani and for the last three sentences. The 'Significant collaborations' section is entirely unsourced. I'll take the filmography as fairly easily verifiable despite not citing any sources. In summary, it isn't a question of whether or not there are some good sources in the article, but a question of how well the article content is sourced. --Michig (talk) 19:35, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * First of all thanks for taking your time about the BLP issues on the article. Actually 'Bollywood Hungama' is recognized as reliable source in wikipedia when it comes to films but I am quite unsure whether this applies to BLP articles. I haven't seen much of Bollywood Hungama as source for BLP articles in the Indian related BLP articles. The 'BH' source used in the article doesn't have the awards she had received and being nominated for but about the filmography she had done playback singing for. In my opinion, that source needs to be moved in the filmography section where a short note needs to be written before providing a source for the filmography table. Anyway, I will try to add reliable sources to 'Early life and background' and 'Significant collaborations' sections. Torreslfchero (talk) 20:00, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

The National Film Awards, Filmfare Awards , other awards , Significant Collaborations , Filmography  are verifiable from the wikipedia links on these relevant pages of Wikipedia itself. There is no aorta of doubt in any of these. Infact the Bollywood Hungama link is irrelevant, I'm removing it. Adding apt. source for Early Life & Background. Hence I feel BLP Sources tag on the page is unsolicited as nothing said on the page is contentious/unverifiable. --ANKMALI (talk) 05:58, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Claims cannot be verified simply by looking at content in other Wikipedia articles. If there are sources that verify this content, please cite them in the article. The alternative is that unsourced claims will be removed. Thanks. --Michig (talk) 07:14, 20 December 2012 (UTC)


 * See the 'Copyvio' section above - it seems to be established that the ibnlive source you added contains content copied from Wikipedia. It is therefore not suitable as a source for that same information. --Michig (talk) 07:22, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

All the info regarding Filmfare,National,Zee Cine, etc awards is verifiable from Wikipeida itself. There's no question of any contentious/wrong info. Everything is verifiable. Infact I request you to look at any other Indian playback singers awards section. All are same. By your logic every Indian singers' achievments/awards as well as any unsourced info section should be removed ?? It seems you don't have sufficient knowledge about playback singing and how Indian film industry works. --ANKMALI (talk) 13:03, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * The argument that we use other Wikipedia articles to verify details in this one is utterly ridiculous. The articles that we have on those awards are not even properly sourced. Please source this information. If it isn't sourced and cannot be verified from reliable independent sources, it will be removed. --Michig (talk) 17:13, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Why are you only targetting Alka Yagnik ? Every other Indian singers', music directors', actors'/actresses' awards/achievment is highlighted in the same way. By your logic every singers', music directors', actresses', actors'award/achievment & every awards page should be removed. Filmfare Awards are more than 50 years old ! This is a major decision which has to be taken with respect to all Indian singers, music directors , actors & actresses. I again reiterate that it seems you are a novice when it comes to the Indian film industry. You are warned against removing any info without detailed discussion including all other film personalities in the purview as well.

See picture of her receiving the National Award from the President http://www.timescontent.com/tss/showcase/preview-buy/33860/Entertainment/Alka-Yagnik-K-R-Narayanan.html

See this official page of Alka Yagnik as well for verification of all facts http://www.alkayagnik.co.in/awards.html. --ANKMALI (talk) 03:22, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * There are a lot of articles that have issues. That doesn't excuse this one from meeting our requirements for biographies of living people. Giving warnings to other editors for simply following policy is not advisable. Could you perhaps direct your efforts into adding the required sources? --Michig (talk) 10:57, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Payal Ki Jhankaar released in 1980
All reliable sources available state that the movie was released in 1980. See http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0156882/ & http://www.raaga.com/channels/hindi/album/H003877.html. No reliable source to state that it was released in 1979. Further in 2005, Alka Yagnik won Screen Award for 25 years of excellence meaning she started in 1980. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y9u-a7mfLg. --ANKMALI (talk) 07:54, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Since there's no counter arguement, I'm taking the date of release as 1980 undisputed. --ANKMALI (talk) 13:19, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Neutrality of words
I have removed what I believe to be non-neutral opinions from this article several times, including five times this month. has disagreed with some of my edits, stating in an edit summary of this edit of January 13 that "Nobody can deny" she has been a "leading" playback singer. On January 21, made this edit with the edit summary of "See link 1 & whole world knows that the songs were chart busters. Every word doesn't." I assumed "link 1" refers to this IBN Live article, which claims that Yagnik is "one of the most iconic Bollywood singers of our time", not that she is a "leading playback singer", and that "Laxmikant gave her two alternatives - an immediate start as a dubbing artist, or a later break as a singer; they settled for the latter", not that "Laxmikant-Pyarelal who were instrumental in launching" her. The IBN Live article doesn't refer to any of her songs as "chartbusters", nor does it refer to any of her collaborations with Jatin Lalit as being for "popular" movies. I therefore undid the IP's edit in this edit, stating in the edit summary that the "'Iconic Alka Yagnik" ref doesn't state these non-neutral opinions". On January 22, ANKMALI made this edit, restoring the previously-removed words "leading" and "popular" and also adding the words "hits" and "memorable". In this edit, ANKMALI added the words "critically acclaimed", "popular" and "notable". In my next edit, I removed several of those words, believing them to be non-neutral opinions. ANKMALI then restored the word "leading" to the lede. I would appreciate other users' opinions on the neutrality of words such as "leading", "chartbusters", "popular", "hits" and "memorable". Thank you. --Geniac (talk) 04:07, 24 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Geniac does not seem to have knowledge about the full facts. Link 1 refers to Alka Yagnik as one of the most iconic singers of our times which I made more neutral & called her a leading playback singer. Pl. read Wikipedia:Neutral point of view, you don't seem to understand the context. It clearly states "including all verifiable points of view which have sufficient due weight". The word leading is absolutely apt. here & neutral as per the link 1 which infact calls her iconic.


 * With regards the significant collaborations with the different music directors, she has sung in hundreds of songs in additional movies with the same directors which aren't mentioned here, they are significant hence mentioned. To make it neutral I suggest changing the format to "Her significant collaborations with (Name of Music Director) include...... ) if that makes Geniac satisfied. Also reference to other playback singers'pages such as Asha Bhosle , Kumar Sanu , Udit Narayan ,etc may serve as a valuable reference point. --ANKMALI (talk) 03:35, 25 January 2014 (UTC)


 * I will be satisfied if Wikipedia's NPOV policy is followed. The use of non-neutral opinions in other articles is irrelevant. I believe "leading" is non-neutral. --Geniac (talk) 19:00, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Like I said Wikipedia:Neutral point of view clearly states "including all verifiable points of view which have sufficient due weight". The word leading is absolutely apt. here & neutral as per the link 1 which infact calls her iconic. Link 1 refers to Alka Yagnik as one of the most iconic singers of our times which I made more neutral & called her a leading playback singer.--ANKMALI (talk) 02:17, 26 January 2014 (UTC)


 * I believe "leading" is non-neutral. I would appreciate other users' opinions on this. --Geniac (talk) 05:00, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Like I said Wikipedia:Neutral point of view clearly states "including all verifiable points of view which have sufficient due weight". The word leading is absolutely apt. here & neutral as per the link 1 which infact calls her iconic. Link 1 refers to Alka Yagnik as one of the most iconic singers of our times which I made more neutral & called her a leading playback singer. Nobody can deny that she is a leading playback singer. Newcomers & established singers can't be treated with the same brush. --ANKMALI (talk) 07:46, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

3O Response: 'Leading' is one of the words specifically listed under WP:PEACOCK as a 'peacock term' that does not impart or summarize verifiable information. I think in this instance it is inappropriate to include in the lede. I wouldn't say that 'leading' is any more neutral a term than 'iconic'. By contrast I'd disagree that 'popular' is inappropriate to include in an article, as long as it is appropriately cited and verifiable, as it refers to an objective fact rather than a statement of opinion (leading being more a statement that someone is important in the field than that their works are widely purchased and/or listened to). I'd say 'memorable' and 'chartbusters' aren't appropriate for the page, but 'notable' is acceptable. Indeed any biography of a living person is supposed to include some claim as to why the subject is notable, since biographies that make no claim to notability are liable to be summarily deleted. Hope this helps. Wieno (talk) 02:41, 4 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Yes, that helps, thank you! I've editing the article accordingly by removing "leading", restoring "popular" and adding an tag to the Significant collaborations section. --Geniac (talk) 03:18, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

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