Talk:Alla Pugacheva

No References
No references. Unencyclopediac lists. This page needs to be worked on. I don't know how to flag it though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.78.63.84 (talk) 02:04, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Tajna otrovna
I deleted the following statement: Alla's song "Pozovi menja s soboy" is the same as "Tajna otrovna" by Vlado Janevski. The problem with this statement is that it should have been written the other way round (Vlado Janevski's song "Tajna otrovna" is the same as Alla's song "Pozovi menja s soboy") and belong to a wiki article about Vlado Janevski. "Tajna otrovna" was released in 2002, while "Pozovi menja s soboy" was written no later than in 1991 by Tatiana Snezhina. Here is the link http://guriev.lenin.ru/5.shtml to an article in Russian about Tatiana Snezhina and "Pozovi menja s soboy". The article was written in 1997.Ri hwa won 20:30, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Sometimes facts are so clear that they almost seem silly to talk about, don't they? The album "Da!", on which the song "Pozovi menya s soboi" appears, was issued in 1997... a full five years before the "copy". :) --Ericdn (talk) 23:33, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

POV
Extremely POV statements. Can someone fix these? Floaterfluss (talk) (contribs) 16:47, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, I did 'fix' it. It was easy. I simply deleted the first part of the article which evidently came from some sort of a biased Russian "rock-encyclopedia". There were times in USSR-Russia when pop-singers were treated with much contempt by Russian rock-musicians and critics. The deleted part was a good reflection of that contempt. While I myself agree with those critics in principle, Wikipedia is hardly a place to post *opinions* like mine or theirs. Ri hwa won 16:14, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Discography table
The table in the discography section was very poorly done. A lot of extra rows with the same LP cover, but no data. Also, the Soviet record firm is usually written as "Melodiya", regardless of language. "Melodie" is only a French translation of the Russian word. Personally, I think a table would be nice, instead of the list that we have now on the page, but it would need to be done better than today's addition. Ericdn 14:44, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Name
It didn't make any sense to have the article titled "Pugacheva" then to open with "Pugachova" and say sometimes anglicized as "Pugacheva" so I reversed it. Pugacheva is clearly the correct choice as it is more commonly used and her own website spells it that way (even tho the "correct" transliteration is "Pugachyova" this falls under "use conventional names"). I also removed the attempts at showing the phonetical pronunciation - if that's done it should use IPA but unfortunately I don't know how to do that. Gr8white (talk) 22:59, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Translations and Transliterations
A note on Transliteration and Russian phonetic rules...

E with the double dots (diareses) is properly YO ... or yotated (jot,) "soft", etc... however, soft vowel effects dissappear after certain consonants such as Zh, Sh Schch and Ch.

Pugachyova (yo) is probably NOT the best transliteration. Pugacheva perserves the Russian rules (most Russians do not bother with the diareses, they KNOW when it is YE or YO) - but Pugachova produces the English pronunciation. Take your pick, but YO is not the best answer...

A side issue... ugh, the translations are horrible - "Rechnoj Tramvajchik" is a river tramsmman... but what the heck is that? Ferryman may be better... but this idea is so arcane and archaic in English I don't know what the right translation is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.64.216.105 (talk) 03:43, 3 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I've been working on the translations to improve them. Looks like I missed one (the one you mentioned!), but I just fixed it.  "River Ferryman" is, I think, the best choice.  Granted, the title even in Russian sounds a little "irregular".  "Tramvaichik" is the guy who drives the tram around the city.  How can there be a tram in the water?  But it's poetry, and that's what's important. --Ericdn (talk) 23:33, 14 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Hi, Ericdn. "Tramvaichik" is not a person. It's a vehicle. "-chik" here means "little". This vehicle must be called something like "water bus" or "river bus" in English. So, the title should be "A Little Water Bus" or something like that. I don't know whether it sounds good in English. In Russian the suffix "-chik" makes this title sound warm and rather poetic. Ri hwa won (talk) 20:40, 26 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Pugachyova is the correct romanization according to WP guidelines (WP:RUS). Pugacheva and Pugachova are shown because they are the forms most commonly used in English (see "Use Conventional Names").  But "The WP:RUS variant must be mentioned in the lead in parentheses after listing the Russian name".  So the lead is correct as it stands.


 * The rules for romanization don't always reflect the actual pronunciation. But you're not going to hear any difference between Pugachyova and Pugachova. Gr8white (talk) 05:25, 3 August 2008 (UTC)


 * ...and no, we don't "take our pick", this is Wikipedia and we follow the Wikipedia guidelines. Gr8white (talk) 05:43, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Pugacheva vs. Rotaru
"Pugacheva is better than Rotaru", "Rotaru is better than Pugacheva"... this "rivalry" is maddening enough to read about in the press, but starting editing wars on Wikipedia to try to see who can "scream the loudest" is not a good idea. I just undid a revision that said that Pugacheva "has not surpassed" Rotaru's popularity... certainly a personal opinion, rather than fact. Likewise, one can argue that it's a personal opinion that Pugacheva's popularity is higher. Therefore, I took the neutral way out and simply removed all references to Rotaru in this article, period. This way, Pugacheva's popularity can be judged solely on her record sales and performances information.

No edit wars, please! --Ericdn (talk) 23:27, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

- yes, no wars please, don't delete my references to clear statistical facts with proper sources replacing them by your personal opinion.--Nextvital007 (talk) 22:11, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I deleted no facts, only a personal opinion. If legitimate facts can be presented that prove that one singer is more popular than another, then they should remain in the article.  Otherwise, it's just one person's word over another's, and that shouldn't remain in the article. --Ericdn (talk) 07:34, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * First of all, fan sites can not be considered to be "verifiable information" if they simply offer the personal opinion of the author and/or contributors. Second, if we are going to keep going back and forth undoing each other's edits, that constitutes an edit war, and I will refer this article to the appropriate Wikipedia editors for them to take the appropriate action. --Ericdn (talk) 07:42, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

- Please do not lie. How can you transorm things and blatantly call black white and vice versa. The data is given by official statistics world known provider, publicly reliable and verifiable sources. There is nothing, not even close anything similar to personal opinion there. However, what you do - is exactly the contrary, by pushing through your own personal opinion under cover of big words with no justification. Please, stop this war.--Nextvital007 (talk) 22:51, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not going to be the one to stop this war; this situation is being reported to the appropriate Wikipedia editors. They'll take their own measures to stop it. --Ericdn (talk) 05:15, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

I have an idea: How about removing the info you're warring over? This can then allow you both to move onto something else until a community consensus is formed regarding those particular sources. Feel free to shout me down :-) If this idea isn't reasonable then give me a buzz and I can come over and we'll try and work something else out again! Scarian  Call me Pat!  00:37, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
 * That's exactly what I was doing! I removed every instance of Sofia Rotaru, as Pugacheva's career can very adequately be described without her.  However, every time I remove it, it's put right back again, as if the two singers' careers are permanently joined together.  Go figure... --Ericdn (talk) 12:56, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

- Please, take into consideration one fact. User Eric renders his clearly personal oinion as the "ultimate truth" by posting a note about me as an edit warrior, whereas User Eric himself, edited more than 3 times, and the only goal of "complaining" (falsely) about me was to legitimize his own personal opinion.

There was suggested to look for a consensus. However, all what happened, and User Eric even explicitely confirmed it by saying "I will not stop this war" (see above), is that User Eric keeps reposting his highly controversial edit, entirely colored by his personal vision.

These are the sources I provided: http://www.gallup-international.com/ http://romir.ru/en/ They clearly say, who has the iconic status in all fo the former USSR and Eastern Europe and is considered as the most popular singer. It is Sofia Rotaru.

As for Alla Pugacheva, she is clearly less popular and popular only in Russia, that's it.

I hope Wikipedia is not a place for lies. Please, help bring some objectivity on Wikipedia, and this article in particular. Thank you.--Nextvital007 (talk) 21:05, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Berlin photo, 1976 (Attn: Rybak)
Great photo of Pugachova from Berlin in 1976! Thanks for posting it! --Ericdn (talk) 15:35, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Добавьте пожалуйста это:
http://www.shoowbiz.ru/showbiznews/4578.html

17 Апреля 2009, в интервью "Брак Пугачевой разрушил КГБ" «Экспресс газете», Александр Стефанович, снял завесу слухов про фильм «Рецитал» и отсутствие связи с фильмом «Душа» в 1980 году. В один из первых съемочных дней фильма Рецитал Алла Пугачева появилась в вычурном наряде, не соответствующем ее образу в фильме, и пожелала в таком виде сниматься. После предложения Стефановича переодеться Алла Пуагчева вцепилась в асситентку и разорвала на ней кожаное пальто. Вся группа приехала отказалась с ней работать. Фильм «Рецитал» был закрыт, а через несколько месяцев Бородянский и Стефанович написали новый сценарий, был снят фильм «Душа» с Софией Ротару в главной роли. Последовал развод Стефановича с Пугачевой.

Про Пугачеву Стефанович ответил на вопрос: "А как вам удавалось морочить голову советской прессе?

" - Это был кураж. Помню, как-то звонят к нам в квартиру из «Литгазеты». Там готовили материал к 8 Марта и попросили какую-нибудь новость об Алле, буквально пару строчек. Я с ходу говорю: «Записывайте! Тираж ее пластинок достиг ста миллионов экземпляров!!! (На самом деле он и до миллиона тогда далеко не дотягивал.) А еще - японская газета «Асахи» назвала Аллу Пугачеву, наряду с Юрием Гагариным, величайшей личностью XX века». Потом эту «залепуху» перепечатали многие газеты.

Или, скажем, будущему главному редактору «Огонька» Льву Гущину я дал от имени Аллы огромное интервью на три «подвала» для «Комсомолки», где она «признавалась в любви» к Мандельштаму и Цветаевой, рассуждала о французском кино, японской поэзии и т.д. Интервью имело эффект разорвавшейся бомбы. На советской эстраде появилась певица-интеллектуалка! Эта статья потом ходила по рукам, сброшюрованная в маленькую книжку.

Про Ротару Стефанович сказал следующее: "Видел Соню несколько дней назад. Она меня познакомила со своей внучкой. Ротару тоже недавно отметила юбилей, но как выглядит и как поет! Публика ломится на ее концерты. И без всяких прощальных туров." 789kirkimir (talk) 20:02, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The proposed text contains no encyclopaedic facts. --Jaan Pärn (talk) 12:24, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Personality
Information in this section is totally unverifiable from the cited reference so I removed it and put a unreferenced there, if this section cannot be improved, I will remove this section per WP:BLP. Grenouille vert (talk) 00:29, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Why was People's Artist title removed?
Why is it more awkward than MBE after the first mention of the members of the Beatles or Grand Officer of Italian Republic after the first mention of Mina? --Jaan Pärn (talk) 15:42, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
 * None of the examples you give are as awkward as this one was. It isn't the inclusion of the honorific title itself that makes it awkward, it's how it was inserted into a sentence that flowed well prior to the insertion.  To my mind it is sufficient to mention the award where it is, but if you think it's necessary to include it with her name the sentence should be reworked. Gr8white (talk) 16:15, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

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Sales
--Apoxyomenus (talk) 04:59, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
 * "Alla Pugacheva, for example, sold over 150 million records, not exclusively in the Soviet Union" — Let's Put the Future Behind Us: A Novel pag. 65 by Jack Womack (2007)
 * "Nana Mouskouri (Greece), and Alla Pugacheva (Russia) have all, also, sold over one hundred million records" — How Music Dies (or Lives) by Ian Brennan (2006)
 * "She has sold more than 100 million records in the past twenty years and has been called not just the most popular singer in Russia" — Culture and Customs of Russia by Sydney Schultze (2000)
 * "[...] from the Soviet Union who has reportedly sold 150 million records, Alla Pugacheva" — Surviving Together issues: 14-16 pag. 78 (1988)
 * "Alla Pugacheva, has sold over 150 million records and tapes , at home and abroad , putting her in the same commercial super league as Elvis Presley , The Beatles and Michael Jackson" — Music of the World by Alan Blackwood (1991)
 * "[...] discs with a total pressing of over 100 million records. Besides, she has played the main roles in two feature films" — Sputnik pag. 88 (1981)
 * "For example, Alla Pugacheva , Russia ' s leading pop star beginning in the mid - 1970s , has sold more than 100 million records and is “ often likened to Barbra Streisand , Liza Minnelli , or ( Bette ) Midler . ”" — The Barbra Streisand Companion pag. 148 by Linda Pohly (2000)
 * "Pugacheva holds the title of People's Artist of the RSFSR and has sold some 200 million records in the USSR." — Radio Liberty Research Bulletin issues: 3448-3456 pag. 9 (1987)
 * "but in the Soviet Union Pugacheva has sold more than 100 million record" — The Bulletin vol. 108 pag. 93 (1986)
 * "Sushkov If we assess an entertainer ' s popularity by the reaction of the audience we can say that Alla Pugacheva has long broken all records . The number of her disks exceed 100 million" — The Daily Review vol. 27 (1981)
 * "Pugacheva has been a superstar in the world of Soviet music for almost three decades, having sold more than 200 million records." — Russia: A Reference Guide from the Renaissance to the Present by Mauricio Borrero (2009)
 * "Pugacheva was Intervision's Abba: she is reputed to have sold 250 million records in her career" — Eurovision!: by Chris West (2017)