Talk:Allen Tupper True/Archive 1

Untitled
Chocolateprints and I are working to clean this up and get licensing data on the infobox photo DutchTower (talk) 13:16, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Over sourcing
The article is crowded with citations from ATT book for every claim. If a book is cited repeatedly in an article, then providing the page numbers is not required for every claim, unless the claim is controversial.
 * ATT,p11,28,53,63,66,68,74,76-79,87,291,303 is not needed, ATT is enough.
 * The section which starts with "True’s career as a muralist began..." should be cited to ATT at the end of the section.

I applied the template. If reverted, I will not object Sole Soul (talk) 22:24, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm glad I checked...I was going to add this template DutchTower (talk) 03:03, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Three images in Work section
Please see. Because this page uses three non-free images, but WP:NFCC requires use be limited to only one, two of the images ought to be deleted, and the remaining (most significant one) should have a revised fair-use rationale on its file page. It would be helpful if editors familiar with this page would select the one best image to retain. Thanks. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:43, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Three to one
It has been suggested that we reduce the 3 images to one. The primary objection is because editors have suggested they are too repetitive. One image does the job. In my opinion all three are different, demonstrate different aspects of this artists output and should be kept in the article - with hopefully additional explanatory text provided.

thumb|150px|Mural in Colorado National Bank


 * If I were to select one of the images to remain I would choose the Mural in Colorado National Bank for visual clarity and the fact that it is a public mural completed in 1925...Modernist (talk) 21:25, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Just to be clear, the reason is actually WP:NFCC. I say this as someone who has been trying to prevent deletion of them all, by the way, but WP:NFC is something we have to work within. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:32, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
 * In the case of paintings, visual works of art that must be seen to be understood and to discuss and depict an artists development multiple works are often required just to display a minimum of information about an artist. Dates are also important and in order to depict the full range of Tupper True's achievement more than one one work is required...Modernist (talk) 21:39, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm very receptive to that. The way to make that happen is to, for each of the three works, discuss that exact work in the text, in a way that brings out the issues that you described (By this time, his style had changed in such-and-such a way...), and then put a very specific free use rationale on the file description page. I can help with the Wiki-intricacies, but I need someone else who really understands True's art to come up with the substance of the content. (I wrote WP:AAFFD because, like you, I had become frustrated with file deletions, so I come to this issue as a content-oriented editor who has learned the hard way about Wikipedia's draconian deletion policies.) --Tryptofish (talk) 21:54, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
 * You are precisely correct - as you can - add text that demonstrates his development and hopefully those nominations will be withdrawn...Modernist (talk) 22:00, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
 * If no one else gets it rolling in the next few days, the image above will be kept and the other two will be deleted. I only found out about this because I monitor WP:FFD and objected to the deletions. I'm not sufficiently into this subject to spend time figuring out how his style developed over time, so I'll need someone else to do that. If that happens, I can make sure the Wiki-checkboxes are all ticked. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:07, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I'd like a better version of this or we should eliminate it Mural in Brown Palace Hotel...Modernist (talk) 01:08, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

I just added some text. Will that help? Also. why does the thumbnail of the Brown Hotel image SUCK? the picture its self looks fine. Scanned right out of True and Kirby's book. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 01:12, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Your text does help, I can't figure out what's wrong with that image it looks like someone squeegeed tar over it but if you click on the image its fine and clear...Modernist (talk) 01:27, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I uploaded another picture, well another version of the same picture, same source, as was there, but the copyright folks will be right behind me since I was not sure what to do when just replacing an image. Carptrash (talk) 01:41, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Strange but true - looks good. I think the article's ok, although more text does help justify the imagery...Modernist (talk) 01:50, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
 * The 3 images are nested with related text, although I'd like to see more text I think they are ok to stay...Modernist (talk) 21:10, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I think you've both done a very good job of responding to the NFCC issues. (I haven't looked at the file description pages, but I've watchlisted them, so I can respond if anyone complains about the fair use rationales.) Based on my experiences with WP:FFD discussions, here is what I think still needs to be done, in order to avoid further deletion nominations. At present, I can't find any mention of Homesteaders in the main text. It has to be there, with an inline cite, or someone will raise WP:NFCC (although, by the date of the work, I think it might actually be in the public domain). It's good that Happy Hunting Ground and Airplane Travel are mentioned by name in the text (they are unlikely to be public domain). But it would help, for all three, to find something, sourced, to say about how True's style or technique or subject matter changed from one work to the next, so that the images actually show something that is discussed in the text, and which changes from one work to the next. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:18, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I've done a lot of articles that contain works - it looks fine, he's a viable and notable figure - the works included are both notable and in the public eye. You can make a note about the 1937 mural about tranportation - Airplane travel being a long way from his earlier American West paintings...Modernist (talk) 21:37, 13 December 2011 (UTC)