Talk:Alligator/Archive 1

ziz-zag myth
"There is no documented evidence of alligators running after human beings to prey upon them. Also, there is no basis to the myth that you should run in zig-zag patterns to avoid a charging alligator. If you do find yourself in the extremely unlikely position of avoiding a lunging alligator, you should run in a straight line away from the alligator and it's habitat, which is where the alligator will most likely retreat to."

Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission FAQ

OKAY. IF YOU HAVE TO RUN FROM AN ALLIGATOR, YOU SHOULD BE AT LEAST 11 FEET AWAY FROM IT TO BEGIN WITH BECAUSE THEY CAN JUMP(LUNGE) 10 FEET. AND YES.. RUN IN A STRAIGHT LINE.

rant
There should be some standard for articles.

Added Farming Paragraph
I am no longer "with it" on Wiki editing rules. Will some kind expert continue to improve my efforts? Thanks Phil talk 20:42, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Sorry but the how to survive an aligator attack is just stupid.

My favorite line:

"Alligators' mouths are covered in rotting flesh', making them breeding grounds for deadly pathogens. To avoid gangrene or other maladies, ingest powerful antibiotics, or, if unavailable, cauterize your wounds with fire."

Why go to the hospital when i can down a bottle of cipro and burn off my arm.

Tomorrow I'm gonna write add an article on fart burning 'Italic textBold text'''

needs work
It would be great to have some information like: where they live, what they eat, how long they live, social and/or family structure, etc. The bit on surving an alligator attack might belong in a long article (if it was totally rewritten), but let's get some basic information before the sensationalistic crap.

Stupid question :I heard they are dinosaurus?

2nd question. What is the difference with crocs?

A1: They were around with the dinos, but they are not.

A2: Different families, jaw shape, other, see interesting article.

How dangerous are alligators? Are they less dangerous than sea crocodiles? What is the alligator population of Florida? Other states? How about an article on alligator wrastlin'.

Question 1 - The males are called 'bitches'. What are female and young alligators called?

A1: Bulls.

They're defintely NOT dinosaurs, and believe it or not, birds ARE dinosaurs! And see the crocodile talk pages for a list differences I wrote. 211.72.108.19 07:21, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

How do gators manage to find their way?
How do gator every now and then manage to find their way into the Metro Atlanta area? Some say they make it up the fall line, other say through irrigation systems.

Were's the diet?
There is no paragraph on diet, why is that? I stand corrected.What are they talking about!!!

biggness?
are they reallty as big as the article says? seems hard to swalow-- Tex  talk 16:21, 10 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Record size animals are far from the norm. Male American alligators are typically closer to 4 m (13 foot) and females around 3 m (10 foot) at maximum size... of course, there are many more smaller animals than those at maximum growth, so the average size is probably much lower. The Chinese alligator is even smaller, at 2 m (6.5 foot). -Dawson 17:35, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

the article is way off as far as average "mean" sizes go...at 8 foot femal is way above average and a 10 foot male is fully grown, dont get me wrong they get bigger but those are average LARGE gators the average gator making up most of the2-4 million gator population is about 5-6 feet with that size going down every year. These are florida numbers by the way, Check Myfwc.com for more information abou alligators and crocs and living with them

Sewers
culverts and under road ways yes its true they are under the roads


 * No. See snopes: Snopes. :) -Dawson 06:50, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Removed text about Alligators using their tails to push humans towards their jaws
I removed this reference because it is not supported by either of the references listed for the article, or by any other reference I could find and I found it less than credible. Rusty Cashman 03:03, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Adding on
Alligators tails are for swimming, NOT pushing prey toward thier mouths.They would bite thier tails.(Ouch!)

Farming
Added this paragraph. I am not "with in" on Wiki editing. Please dress it up. Thanks

Suspect Fact in the Habitat Section
This section states that only the USA has both crocodiles and alligators. I think that what it means is that only in the USA do crocodiles and alligators live in the same areas, because China also has both alligators and crocodiles, albeit in different regions. I'll change it.
 * Now it says "There are only two countries on Earth that have alligators: the United States and China." That must be false, since alligators are found in many Latin American countries. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 163.1.16.63 (talk • contribs).
 * The current language which you've quoted is factually correct. There are members of Alligatoridae in South and central america, but they are caiman instead of alligators.  Enuja 19:38, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Bite me
How many teeth have they got? More or fewer than crocs? Marlin Perkins 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Citation needed
I cleaned up a somewhat clumsy paragraph on the age that gators can reach, but was unable to find a citation in English for the part regarding a 70-year-old alligator in the Belgrade Zoo. I left the item and added a citation needed tag. Anybody have any ideas? Where Anne hath a will, Anne Hathaway. 00:23, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Differentiation
The section on the differences between alligators and crocodiles needs to be much improved. To say that they are as different as humans are to gorillas is saying nothing. They are of the same family, right? So, tell me how they are different. JJ 23:38, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Do they have the same physiology as crocodiles? i.e. four chambered heart, diaphragm Etc.--Teletran 04:17, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
 * JohnJHenderson (JJ) is referring to an addition to Alligatoridae, not to anything on this page. But, to answer your question, yes, the basic physiology of crocodilians is the same.  In fact, comparative physiologists do studies on the most convient speices, not on any species in particular, although the only source I know of for their cardiac similarity is
 * Webb, G.J.W. (1979). Comparative cardiac anatomy of the Reptilia.  III.  The heart of crocodilians and an hypothesis on the completion of the interventricular septum of crocodilians and brids.  Journal of Morphology.  161, 221-240.
 * However, none of them have a diaphragm; they do have a muscle that is analogous to the diaphragm, but it's called the "diaphramaticus" because it isn't homologous to the diaphragm. In other words, it has a separate evolutionary origin.  Also, the function of the diaphramaticus is still under study.  Enuja 16:07, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

A Question
This page is repeatedly -- and I mean, repeatedly, almost every day -- vandalized with childish sexual innuendo and webspeak. These edits are, of course, always done by anons. I mean, it gives me something to do, but might it be worth it to try and get this page protected from anonymous editing for a little while? I'm not really sure how that is done or if this even qualifies for such measures. Please feel free to chime in. Thanks. Where Anne hath a will, Anne Hathaway. 06:36, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism
Can someone with better rights than I please correct this: ""Sex (strictly doggy style and 69 only) is fully determined at the time of hatching and irreversible thereafter,""  Thanks - user:miotch —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Miotch (talk • contribs).

Alligator Question
If lightning were to strike the water surface near an alligator, is the alligator harmed? Is there evidence of alligator deaths due to lightning strikes?

Bob —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.19.14.25 (talk • contribs).

Apex?
The article says that alligators are the apex predator in their habitat and that they sometimes prey on bears and cougers. This is misleading as Black Bears prey on quite sizeable alligators pretty regularly. I know this from talking to Everglades guides thirty years ago but I doubt that this has changed all that much. Will in New Haven 71.234.42.229 19:11, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

alligators in memphis?
How about people stop putting storiess which are just amazing phenomonoms in the article. Alligators have a hard time sustaining life in SE Arkansas and Central MS, every year their range will fluxuate by winter temperatures. The University of Georgia did a great research project on this. Once believed that alligators could not live in the Southern piedmont region(includes most of Atlanta Metro) because the increase in elevation from the fall line. Now the region expierences milder winters comparable to that of central MS but however it was extremly rare to find any alligators until well south of Macon. From the years of 1997 to 2005, 6 alligator sightings were reported in and around the Metro Atlanta area. What had happened in those year the area saw avg winter temps. running 5 to 10 degrees above normal. Memphis is just to cold to sustain alligators, have you forgot how common small bodies of water freeze over from dec.- early march in the Memphis area. Snow and temps. that hover below 20 will kill an alligator. Living in Memphis that happened every year, a string of mild winters will allow alligators to move further and further north. Think back to the fire ants issue. They had been living in areas from Southern Virginia to the Dallas area way before they got to memphis. I'll have to find that project and post a link to it, but in the mean time correct it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.18.147.67 (talk • contribs) 17:54, 16 August 2007
 * To me, the current language in the article does indicate that alligators in Memphis are strange as opposed to normal, and there are references included. A published scientific article reference would be better, and feel free to edit the article yourself, using the reference and altering the language in the article, but I'm not going to edit that section for you.  Enuja 18:29, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Eyes
At the beginning of the article, it says the eyes of adult alligators glow red, while those of the young glow green. However, in the section on differences between alligators and crocodiles, its says crocs have green eyes while alligators have brown. Contradiction?

Also, the second paragraph in the reproduction section makes no sense. If older alligators kill the babies as stated earlier, why would there be more babies if the hunting of alligators has been outlawed? Mapjc 14:27, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Feel free to remove all contributions, and leave (or add) facts cited to reliable sources. I keep meaning to go through and edit the article, but I keep not getting to it.  As your listing of contradictions shows, it needs some serious help.  Enuja 02:20, 29 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm doubting that alligators' eyes glow - I expect, as with many animal species, they shine or reflect light. But I really doubt they actually glow.  Under normal light, they may have green or brown eyes, but if you've ever seen an animal at night, their eyes normally reflect - usually silverish - but they could look reddish due to the blood in the eye, and may appear to glow.  It's not an independent light source - they don't shine without a light source.  I don't know about alligators - I've never seen one at night, and I'm not suggesting any non-wiki type independent research. gnomelock 02:52, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Have Alligators really brown eyes and Crocodiles green eyes?

Speed
There has been some recent editing activity about the top speed of alligators. I said I'd find a reference for their top land speed, but I'm not having a lot of luck, and I even found a website that said "we know of no one who has measured the land speed of alligators." This wikipedia article recently said that their top speed was 30 mph, and it cited as a reference an everglades national park webpage. That website has numerous errors. The NPS site says the top speed of alligators is "30 miles per hour (38 kph)" but 30 mph = 48kph. It also says "Alligators feed most often when temperatures are between 73-90°F (20-23°C). " but, of course, 90F is 32C. The NPS page (and this article, until recently) said that an alligator's fastest gait is the "high walk" but peer reviewed literature (Stephen M. Reilly and Jason A. Elias  1998. Locomotion in Alligator mississippiensis: kinematic effects of speed and posture and their relevance to the sprawling-to-erect paradigm.  The Journal of Experimental Biology 201, 2559–2574) says that alligator's fastest gait is the gallop. I can't find anyone measureing a top galloping speed for alligators, but Crocodylus johnstoni has been clocked at 17mph, and, while I haven't read that paper (it is in the peer reviewed literature) that was a top speed. I don't think it passes wikipedia's reliable source guideline, but the crocodilian biology database has an excellent page on just this issue. . Any ideas on how we should address alligator speed? Personally, I'd just leave it out, but, especially as it appears that there is a lot of false information around about alligator speed, it probably makes sense to put something in. Enuja (talk) 05:22, 1 September 2007 (UTC) Gators may have green yellow or blood red eyes when they are shinned at night it all depends on the animal —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.33.73.228 (talk) 15:45, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

"Southwest Oklahoma. . . "?——"American Alligators are found in the subtropical southeast US: all of Florida and Louisiana; the southern parts of Georgia, Alabama and Mississipi; coastal South and North Carolina; Southeastern Texas and in extreme southwest Oklahoma and Arkansas." Uh, no. They are in southeastern Oklahoma, conceivably, where the rivers run on down into Louisiana, but never in southwestern Oklahoma. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Landrumkelly (talk • contribs) 05:08, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

While alligators are often confused with crocodiles, they belong to two quite separate taxonomic families, and are as distinct from one another as humans are from gorillas.
???????????? Noahwoo (talk) 19:35, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Per discussion on Talk:Crocodile, it is proposed to split the differences between A & C section of into a separate article which can be linked from both articles. I'll do it if enough people agree. Mfield (talk) 21:22, 23 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Their a bit more distinct than we are from gorillas. The croc-alligator divergence is about as deep as the human-whale split! Mark t young (talk) 21:29, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Etymology and Shakespeare
Mention first written use of 'alligator' was by Shakespeare? http://www.bartleby.com/61/22/A0212200.html among other sources some that even claim Shakespeare invented the anglicized version. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.127.29.206 (talk) 02:53, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Far too many images
This article now contains far too many images, a lot of which are unencyclopedic and duplicate each other. Also the formatting has been destroyed by people adding them in inappropriate places. I'm gonna go through it and rationalize them. The rest can be/are linked via the wikimedia commons link. Mfield (talk) 21:52, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

What does alligator meat taste like?
Responding to the recent spate of edits, especially by Bob98133. What is a good source for the taste of alligator meat, then? Does this "fact" even need to be in the article?If the exotic meat-seller is a not a source for the taste of alligator meat, why do we still have a list of foods alligator meat is used in (the currently unsourced statement in the article came from the same .pdf)? - Enuja (talk) 02:09, 19 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Should probably see if Ernest A. Liner, author of The Culinary Herpetologist(!) has ever written anything on the subject of the taste ;-p Mfield (talk) 06:13, 19 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I thought originally that the exotic meat seller would be a good source because they would be most in contact with the meat itself and with those who consume it, but the "Culinary Herpetologist" book sounds more promising. The problem, as I was informed because of my other edits, exists in the fact that comparing tastes can only ever be considered an opinion. Undoubtedly I have heard many people say alligator meat tastes like chicken -- I have heard it, I have experienced it. "That I have heard it" is the fact. Its taste is subjective. At least, that's my current understanding. So, the exotic meat seller would have an interest in selling its product, and ordinary sources might be too subjective. I hope we can figure something out, though, because there are many people who are curious what alligator would taste like who will never find out for themselves. There's more at WP:NPOV, if someone will offer another interpretation. Owlgorithm (talk) 18:45, 19 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't know if it's POV or not, but isn't describing how food tastes always a bit subjective? If we're to delete anything not absolutely objective, any ref to taste must be removed from every article on anything edible. I invite anybody with a spare lifetime to begin.  TREKphiler   hit me ♠  18:50, 19 July 2008 (UTC) NEVER AGAIN?!!!!


 * Like chicken, everything tastes like chicken except beef, pork, fish, and chicken. -sorry, someone had to say that.

More is appreciated
This is little in length of what I'd expect of a Wikipedia article of a well known animal. Also, there should also be a section added that talks about the threat humans pose to alligators.--Archeopteryx (talk) 03:00, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Remove albino section and photo?
I don't believe that either of these benefit the article. The albino article makes it clear that reptiles can be albinos. The cited reference, which is pretty shaky (make sure to vote if you think it's good) states that they do not survive in the wild. The photograph, which was not described as taken in captivity, obviously was. Neither this information nor the photograph are representative of the topic. I suggest they both be removed. If this information is of any value, it should be placed in the albino article. Bob98133 (talk) 03:17, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Against. IMO the image and the info add value to the article and link to albinism. IMO many Wikipedia readers, who visit alligator article have never heard about albinism. The image and the info provide link to albinism article. I believe Wikipedia readers will benefit from learning something new while visiting alligator article. I've never tried to hide that the image was taken in captivity. As a matter of fact I provided this info on Bob98133 own talk page four days ago. Mbz1 (talk) 21:57, 31 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Against. A picture has a visceral impact description doesn't. (Same rationales here, where representative pix got taken down as "unnecessary" by Philistines...)  TREKphiler   hit me ♠


 * Against - User Mbz1 has done nothing by add quality to many wikipedia articles. Albino alligators may not be the most notable subject on the matter, but having a small 2-3 sentence passage in a relatively short article is not a problem. --Travis Thurston +  21:32, 1 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Eh - It is actually a notable phenomenon, due to the fuss zoos have made and the rarity of such animals, but not terribly important. If this were print, I'd say drop it are irrelevant, but since it costs nothing for WP to add content, there's no major problem.  However, it seems poorly integrated into the article as a whole. Mokele (talk) 22:09, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Crocogator
Is it possible to cross a crocodile and alligator and get a crocogator hybrid —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jack turnip (talk • contribs) 12:46, 29 October 2008 (UTC)


 * As far as I know, it is not possible. While reptiles seem to have an easier time hybridizing with distant relatives (even cross-genus), the separation between the two groups is so old that I doubt any hybrids would be viable. Mokele (talk) 22:11, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Link for number of teeth
This page http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/natsci/herpetology/brittoncrocs/csp_amis.htm says 74-80 teeth. I haven't seen anything for where in that range is typical. --Dan Wylie-Sears 2 (talk) 22:45, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Top speed unknown, probably 10-15 mph, not 27
Has great protein possibly may be able to treat cancer and other illnesses I took out the statement that they can go up to 27mph. I couldn't find a satisfactory estimate to replace it with. Here's what I did find:

"We know of no one who has measured the ground speed of alligators." http://myfwc.com/GATORS/faq.htm

"On land, Alligators are not capable of running faster than a slow human, top speed is probably between 10 and 15 miles per hour." http://www.enature.com/expert/expert_show_question.asp?questionID=14232

"The MAXIMUM top speed of an alligator, you ready for this? After extensive research.... it was determined to be between 10 and 11 miles per hour, for up to 8 yards." http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/2221/gator.html

The last one is specific enough, but it's from a source specializing in snakes not gators, and I didn't see any details of the extensive research. --Dan Wylie-Sears 2 (talk) 23:23, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

How many alligators are there?
Under the general heading it states that there are about 1,000,000 wild alligators on earth. In the next paragraph it says that there are approximatly a million alligators each in Florida and Louisiana. Now you could assume that they each have more than half a million living in captivity, but that is quite far fetched. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.148.69.174 (talk) 03:00, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Vision

At night
 * with the pupils fully dilated, sharpness of vision comparable to an owl's
 * like cats, alligators have thin layer of special reflecting tissue behind each retina called tapetum lucidum (bright carpet) which acts like a mirror to concentrate all available light during darkest of nights (a definite advantage for a night-active meat-eater)
 * also causes coal-red eyeshine at night when caught in the flashlight beam

Peripheral


 * bulging eyes on top of head provide 25 degrees of binocular vision to judge distance and attack with accuracy

Protection
 * can pull soft eye orbits down into skulls, letting them pop back up when coast is clear
 * before eyes closed, nictitating membranes close front to back, then eyelids close top to bottom

Eye rotation


 * like a compass needle pointing perpetually north, oval-shaped pupils remain vertical to horizon, even when head tilted
 * adaptation for enhanced, undisrupted vision possible by compass-like movement of eyeballs (but it only works when somewhat horizontal. Flip a gator on its back and visual system and equilibrium disturbed- eyes unable to focus and gator motionless as though experiencing extreme vertigo) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tina0111 (talk • contribs) 06:11, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

VISION
At night


 * with the pupils fully dilated, sharpness of vision comparable to an owl's
 * like cats, alligators have thin layer of special reflecting tissue behind each retina called tapetum lucidum (bright carpet) which acts like a mirror to concentrate all available light during darkest of nights (a definite advantage for a night-active meat-eater)
 * also causes coal-red eyeshine at night when caught in the flashlight beam

Peripheral


 * bulging eyes on top of head provide 25 degrees of binocular vision to judge distance and attack with accuracy

Protection


 * can pull soft eye orbits down into skulls, letting them pop back up when coast is clear
 * before eyes closed, nictitating membranes close front to back, then eyelids close top to bottom

Eye rotation


 * like a compass needle pointing perpetually north, oval-shaped pupils remain vertical to horizon, even when head * adaptation for enhanced, undisrupted vision possible by compass-like movement of eyeballs (but it only works when somewhat horizontal. Flip a gator on its back and visual system and equilibrium disturbed- eyes unable to focus and gator motionless as though experiencing extreme vertigo) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tina0111 (talk • contribs) 06:15, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

I call BS on the alligators in the Dismal Swamp in VA
There is no reference for the alligators in the summer in VA Dismal Swamp, nor Missouri. Unless someone can supply a supporting reference, these claims should be trimmed. A VA prescense is intriguing since they have been noted in Mills Pond (Dismal Swamp in NC) and in the NC's Currituck Sound (the far northern extension of which would be VA's Back Bay. However, nonetheless for being intriguing, there are no confirmed reports of non-released gators in VA.  The Missouri speculation is WAY WACKED since even in Arkansa, they only occur in the far South.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.246.157.157 (talk) 06:36, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Locomotion
Details about locomotion seem to be missing here. In the crocodile article, they say they crawl but are capable of a "high walk." I thought alligators crawled as opposed to crocodiles. But just saw one today "high walk" which was a nasty surprise (he was coming after us while we were in a boat!). Student7 (talk) 01:24, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Technically, "crawling" is a meaningless term - it has no scientific definition and a myriad of contradictory and inconsistent vernacular definitions. As far as what they actually do, all extant crocodilians swim, slide along their bellies, and "high walk" (which involves sprawled but highly adducted forelimbs and fully erect hindlimbs). Some smaller species and juveniles can "gallop" (though it's actually a bound in technical terms). Their ancestors were fully-erect walking, galloping, fast-moving terrestrial predators that looked like a cross between a lizard and a whippet, and crocs have re-invaded purely terrestrial niches several times. Mokele (talk) 02:06, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Comparison to crocodile
There should be a section on the similarities and differences between what people call an alligator and a crocodile in Florida. Alligator is a specie where crocodile is just the synonym for crocodilian family, but still someone should describe what is meant by 'crocodile' in florida.


 * The article crocodile explains the differences. And crocodiles are the same everywhere, not just Florida. Student7 (talk) 19:49, 3 August 2010 (UTC)


 * If they're referring to an actual crocodile, then it's not just a synonym...It's the American Crocodile (Crocodylus acutus), a species, as opposed to crocodilians, or even crocodiles, in general, two increasingly specific groups, respectively. Florida has both American Alligators and American Crocodiles. If they're calling an Alligator a crocodile, they are in error. A crocodile is a specific subset of crocodilians, just as an alligator is a subset (two extant species of alligator, many extant species of crocodile). Regardless, I'm not sure regional slang is notable enough for this level of article. A general description of the alligator, its place in the general group of crocodilians, and potentially differences between alligators and crocodiles, should suffice. It doesn't need to delve down to the regional level. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.65.34.192 (talk) 20:49, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

There has not been much discussion here in 6 months or so. Upon reading the article, I have found some instances where flow is lacking, and grammar is questionable. Under the "Be bold" doctrine, I plan to make some widescale, but hopefully minor, edits to the page to improve its order and readability. I am an environmental professional who also volunteers as a naturalist in a setting in which the American Alligator is a prominent part of our work (www.brazosbend.org ))However, I am not a herpetologist by trade, so please correct me if I go astray. I don't intend to alter the factual content on the page, but rather, its readability as I said, but if I find some places that could use some addition, I will try to add whatever might improve the article (referenced, of course:)) Regards, Jbower47 (talk) 20:53, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Cleaning up the article
I was making some minor grammar/flow changes (nothing substantive, just to improve readability without deleting content). I noticed that a good deal of the latter part of the article seems specific to the American Alligator (diet, etc). Given the differences between the two species, should we maybe remove material here, and put it in the AA article if need be, and leave this as a simple description of the genus? It seems like the article is an american alligator article with a couple chinese alligator references (well handled in habitat, etc) thrown in at the start. Thoughts? Regards, Jbower47 (talk) 20:53, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Leucism
If you're going to talk about albinism, maybe you should mention leucism. The photos of leucistic alligators are even more arresting, as they are a starker white, and they are (I believe) even rarer. Here's a link to some photos if you want them:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1146300/The-white-bite-Meet-blue-eyed-alligator-stands-like-sore-thumb.html

The article has some inaccurate quotes about these alligators getting eaten in the wild, but it has good photos.

Mikestipe (talk) 04:51, 7 December 2010 (UTC)Mikestipe

Edit request from 128.32.118.81, 4 March 2011
This page is terrible!!!! There are so many inaccuracies and some cited sources do not say anything similar to what they are cited as saying! Alligator, at the species, genus, or even the family level, are not 200 million years old, as crown group crocodylians are all not older than about 84 million years (as cited elsewhere on Wikipedia). I can't make these changes nor have the time, but please have someone actually knowledgeable on crocodylian evolution edit the pages discussing such topics, as this makes Wikipedia look like a terrible resource.

128.32.118.81 (talk) 00:07, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. You need to tell us exactly what changes should be made, and provide sources for those requested changes. While I concur that the article is missing a lot of needed citations, unfortunately, without providing us info, it's not really possible for us to make the change. Please keep in mind that Wikipedia is a volunteer project, and nothing can compel anyone to edit any given article. In any event, edit requests are for making specific requests of changes to be made, not for general concerns. If you do have time later, we certainly welcome your knowledge and would love to have you help provide us with improvements. Qwyrxian (talk) 07:43, 4 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Note that National Geographic says "species" is 150 million years old. http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/reptiles/american-alligator. Student7 (talk) 18:59, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

The statement made about a lack of any average lifespan may or may not be accurate, however, citation #5, which supports this, is a link to a prominent physicist. I doubt that it's accurate.

Grammatical disaster
"14 feet" should be "14-foot" when used as an adjective. Ryoung 122 21:02, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

Translation detail
Near the beginning of the article it is stated that "el lagarto", the etymological root of the word "alligator", is the Spanish word for lizard. While this is more or less accurate, it is technically incorrect; it is more precisely described as a Spanish phrase which literally translates into "the lizard". As a note of general interest I add that the word "lagarto" (as opposed to the nearly synonymous "lagartija") carries connotations of larger size when used to refer to a reptile; however, this information is likely unnecessary in the context of the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.146.177.88 (talk) 04:39, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 66.233.0.64, 6 September 2011
Second paragraph under albino states: "Albino alligators have a non-functional gene for melanin, which makes them albino. The is the common trait of all albino vertebrates."

The second sentence of this makes absolutely no sense and needs to be corrected.

66.233.0.64 (talk) 04:49, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
 * It makes sense to me. Its saying that the non-functional gene is a common thing among all albino vertebrates. --Jnorton7558 (talk) 12:05, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Alligators as "living fossils"
The current version of the article claims that alligators have changed little in 200 million years. It also classifies them as crocodilians and links to that article, which says that the order Crocodilia appeared 84 million years ago. I don't know this field, but that strikes me as a contradiction. Can someone who knows about it reconcile the two articles?Jbening (talk) 01:48, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 23 January 2012
Footnote 2 and the paragraph it refers to should be modified to reflect new information: see here: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=224135681003657&set=a.158216540928905.40713.100002216793024&type=1&ref=nf

NetMater (talk) 23:40, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
 * ❌, a facebook photo is not a reliable source--Jac 16888 Talk 23:45, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

What lurks beneath
Actually there was a documented case of a 5 foot alligator being pulled out of a sewer in 1931. After that the city made a campaign to          and sent teams down with shot guns. The sewers stay warm during the winter with plenty of potential food but there has not been any evidence of alligators in the sewers since then.

One thing to note is a recent trend in raising alligators is to keep them in complete darkness. They reach 5 feet in length in a years' time. Something that normally takes 4 to 5 years in the wild. No one knows why, nor do I know how anyone discovered this or what the research done was. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.71.221.193 (talk) 16:17, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Why is there no mention of alligators that roam about the sewers of places like New York City and occasionally get caught in people's pipes? -Alan 24.184.184.177 (talk) 14:07, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * There is not because such a description is obviously fictional.--Archeopteryx (talk) 03:01, 25 October 2008 (UTC)


 * The plain fact is that alligators cannot survive in darkness - they need ultraviolet light in order to produce Vitamin D, which they need in order to metabolize calcium. Even if kept in room lighting, without UV, crocodilians will become deformed and eventually die. Mokele (talk) 16:23, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

CHIKEN!! ΆΒῂἮᾯᾯῳΗζ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.217.66.140 (talk) 02:38, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 28 June 2013
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYCtln6fizY

41.130.149.115 (talk) 22:06, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: That video is about Crocadiles, not Alligators, and youtube links are discouraged due to copyright issues. RudolfRed (talk) 01:50, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 28 Oct 2013
I would suggest removing the link to http://seelouisiana.com/swamp.htm in the Alligator section since it's information is specific to Louisiana.

Bergeycm (talk) 04:29, 28 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: Sorry, but that is a commercial page and doesn't provide a reference to support any of the things stated in the article. Remember, Wikipedia is not a tourist site. Thanks. --Stfg (talk) 09:37, 28 October 2013 (UTC)


 * ✅. Don't understand last answer which says the same thing but has a different answer. The link was WP:SPAM as Bergeycm pointed out. It needed to be rm. Thanks. Student7 (talk) 16:13, 2 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Stupid of me -- I completely misread the request. My apologies to Bergeycm, and thanks to Student7 for fixing it. --Stfg (talk) 17:24, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 February 2014
Please change"The sex of the offspring is determined by the temperature"to"The sex of the offspring is determined by the temperature"I originally expected the link to talk about the sex of young alligators, not to talk about the process by which that's ascertained.

2001:18E8:2:28CA:F000:0:0:7A27 (talk) 15:23, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Good catch. Done. Chiswick Chap (talk) 15:44, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

Contradiction
Under "Description" it says: "A large adult American alligator's weight and length is 360 kg (790 lb) and 4.0 m (13.1 ft), but they can grow to 4.4 m (14 ft) long and weigh over 450 kg (990 lb).[2] The largest ever recorded, found in Louisiana, measured 5.84 m (19.2 ft)."

The last sentence contradicts the prior statement that they can grow "TO 4.4 m" which means no greater than 4.4 m.

Suggested rewording:

"An average [or 'a typical'] large adult American alligator weighs 360 kg (790 lb) to 450 kg (990 lb) and is 4.0 m (13.1 ft) to 4.4 m (14 ft) long. The largest ever recorded, found in Louisiana, measured 5.84 m (19.2 ft)." 75.7.185.14 (talk) 12:55, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 March 2014
no million year thing lot of people do NOT believe that

108.13.112.70 (talk) 21:51, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Nici  Vampire  Heart  22:17, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 May 2014
LoveDragon379 (talk) 17:44, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Correct attribution of name?
This section credits the genus Alligator to Daudin 1809, which is supported by the Paleobiology database. The ITIS taxonomy database gives credit to Cuvier 1807. I am inclined to believe the ITIS database is more accurate, but would be interested if anyone has any other sources confirming either as the correct attribution. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.229.220.37 (talk) 14:17, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

Coypu vs. Nutria
I have changed all occurrences of Nutria in the article to Coypu. The main reason is that the WP article for the rodent is titled Coypu; there is a redirect from Nutria. In addition, Coypu is arguably more appropriate based on its generally wider use than Nutria. The issue of the most appropriate name of Myocastor coypus for WP has already been discussed at length at Talk:Coypu. Twistlethrop (talk) 20:00, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Edit request: Muja's years
Hello friends,

World's oldest known alligator Muja was brought here to the Belgrade Zoo on the 12th of september 1937 (http://www.beozoovrt.rs/muja-najstariji-aligator/), so he's been here for 78 years now (I just saw him two days ago btw, great fella). So the line "In 1937, a one-year-old specimen was brought to the Belgrade Zoo in Serbia from Germany. It is now 76 years old." should be edited to at least 78 years old, if not 79.

Greetings from Serbia, Milan. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.246.53.17 (talk) 12:26, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

Don't feed in winter
According to Did you know... for 12/16/2015, "alligators don't feed in winter." If correct, that seems worth mentioning here. ☺ Dick Kimball (talk) 14:17, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

Oldest Aligator
This page states that Muja is the oldest alligator at 80. This is wrong, the oldest aligator is named Saturn and is Located at the Moscow zoo at age 85. I would have fixed myself but someone protected it.

source source source (not english)

ReddOne (talk) 23:17, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

What is the color / skin pigment range
Yes, there may be pictures in the article, but it struck me very odd that there is nothing describing the color of alligators. I came here because it always bothers me when they are described as green. I have never seen a green alligator. I've been up close to many alligators both in zoos and in the wild growing up in Florida. None were green. Dhugot (talk) 21:17, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

See you later
I cant help but feel as though the expression "see you later, alligator" should be included on this wiki article it's significance culturally is undeniable and has had an impact on the linguist patterns of the majority of humans. period. Please include a funfacts section with this and others. it would provide many opportunities for advanced learning and encourage learning this is our hope. please.

Rather than "fun facts", an "In popular culture" section would be more appropriate. Many Wiki articles have such a section. Pciszek (talk) 01:36, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

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alligator population rebounds after hunting ceases
I am confused about the author's intent in the following:

" ...immediately following the outlawing of alligator hunting, populations rebounded quickly due to the suppressed number of adults preying upon juveniles, increasing survival among the young alligators..."

How is it possible for the survival rate of young alligators to improve if MORE adults exist to eat them ?

Aardfilm (talk) 23:53, 19 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Let's say 100 adult alligators eats 1000 juveniles (for example) out of 10,000 hatchlings. And 100 alligators is the entire adult population in a given area. Once humans stop hunting, there are still only 100 adults eating 1,000 juveniles but the hatchlings don't have to contend with human hunters who are much more voracious (and capture eggs, as well)! So instead of the other 9000 falling to humans, many of those 9,000 reach adulthood. So, for a relatively short time, the population expands enormously. This sort of rebound would be fairly typical for many reptiles and insects, I would think. Student7 (talk) 00:11, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

I see ... I had assumed that taking hatchlings or eggs would be illegal ... and only adult animals could be hunted. Aardfilm (talk) 13:43, 1 May 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't know about restrictions now on eggs, but alligators were considered more of a nuisance up until the time that they started being "protected" by the US government in 1967. Kind of like spiders. Not exactly cuddly creatures! :)  I think that hunting them is much more controlled now. But the point was, reptiles can reproduce rapidly. In the case of sea turtles, there are "other" problems, but initial reproduction is quite high. Student7 (talk) 19:03, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Let's go through this one more time (citation needed: apparent non sequitur)
The article says - without a citation to check: Predation by adults on young can account for a mortality rate of up to 50% in the first year. In the past, immediately following the outlawing of alligator hunting, populations rebounded quickly due to the suppressed number of adults preying upon juveniles, increasing survival among the young alligators.

Aardfilm asked:

How is it possible for the survival rate of young alligators to improve if MORE adults exist to eat them ?

And Student7 answered with a somewhat plausible response, while citing no authority and while acknowledging Aardfilm's hypothesis that with hunting outlawed, "MORE adults exist to eat them," that outlawed hunting eliminates the eggs and hatchlings taken by human hunters. The most obvious problem with this plausible explanation is that the article said that following the hunting restriction, "populations rebounded quickly due to the suppressed number of adults preying upon juveniles." Those are alligator adults, right? So riddle me this: How does it work that not hunting alligators — embryonic, juvenile and adult — somehow manages to suppress rather than increase the number of adults preying upon juveniles? The quoted passage is a complete non sequitur, the conclusion not following from the premise. What would redeem it's logic? It would make sense if it were to say:

Predation by adults on young can account for a mortality rate of up to 50% in the first year. In the past, immediately following the legalization of alligator hunting, populations rebounded quickly due to the suppressed number of adults preying upon juveniles, increasing survival among the young alligators.

The "immediately following" qualification would rule out long-term heavy hunting of alligators which presumably would reduce all alligator numbers, including juveniles. Perhaps my version would be correct or Student7's understanding is correct, or neither, but in any case the passage as it stands is highly dubious and requires a cited reference in order to remain as is. Marked as such. —Blanchette (talk) 22:04, 28 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Ok, I found some sources for the cannibalism rates, but they're inferred by toe-tags retained in larger gator stomachs. The older study found a rate of 50% by assuming the tags were retained about 1 year, but the newer one suggests a longer retention and thus a lower rate.  I cited both.


 * As for population recovery, that needs more expert attention. Most sources agree that cannibalism is density-dependent, and several suggest it could function as a way to stabilize population size distribution in favor of larger, reproductively active adults.  There's a simulation paper from the 70's which seems to show that the overall strategy allows them to bounce back more by having lots of babies "waiting in the wings" that can either grow up or get eaten, but someone with more expertise in this field needs to evaluate that.  I suspect there are some complex dynamics relating the hunting removing adults who are cannibalistic but are also the source of new eggs. HCA (talk) 22:46, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

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not enough alligator pictures
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.54.30.187 (talk) 14:44, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I added a pic from the to the gallery. Pick any others you think would improve and the article and add them or mention them here and I will add them. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 20:25, 2 February 2018 (UTC)

Incorrect Geologic Age
The Oligocene spans 34-23 million years BPE. 37 million years ago, as stated in the article, would be within the Eocene.

Cawmaster (talk) 00:13, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 January 2022
Type species is incorrect. It should be 'Alligator mississippiensis' not 'Crocodylus mississipiensis' 31.121.156.194 (talk) 13:51, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ Thanks! --Hemantha (talk) 14:55, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 19 January 2021 and 30 April 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): MichKayla S. Peer reviewers: Natedavino, Rca001.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 13:54, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Diet
Alligators accually eat crabs and they love them. 199.68.60.71 (talk) 02:02, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

Change “coypu” to “nutria”
In Louisiana and adjacent areas where alligators live, “coypu” are known exclusively as “nutria.” To reduce confusion and increase accuracy, I recommend changing it in the article. “Coypu” redirects to “nutria,” so the change would also be appropriate from a hierarchical sense. 71.8.106.72 (talk) 17:06, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

Outdated: "No average lifespan for an alligator has been measured"
Since the 2011 citation a long term study found "alligators [on the site] commonly live to 50 and can possibly live to >70 years of age."

Philip M. Wilkinson, Thomas R. Rainwater, Allan R. Woodward, Erin H. Leone, and Cameron Carter "Determinate Growth and Reproductive Lifespan in the American Alligator ( Alligator mississippiensis): Evidence from Long-term Recaptures," Copeia 104(4), 843-852, (14 November 2016). https://doi.org/10.1643/CH-16-430 Received: 17 March 2016; Accepted: 1 June 2016; Published: 14 November 2016

Suggest something like "Alligators are thought to commonly live around 50 years and may live beyond 70, though this longevity makes accurate studies difficult." Dogsonofawolf (talk) 19:55, 22 May 2022 (UTC)