Talk:Alliteration/Archive 1

RE: 'Deliberate?' and 'Alliteration vs Repetition'
Don't confuse alliteration with consonance.

When the same consonant is repeated in the middle words that are strung together, it is called consonance. So, in the example

"...stylistic device, or literary technique, in which successive words (more strictly, stressed syllables) begin with the same consonant sound or letter."

the only real alliteration is with the words stylistic, successive, strictly, stressed, syllables, same and sound. All of the other highlighted 's' sounds are consonance.

When this happens with vowels, it is called assonance.

Also, I had always thought that alliteration was the term for vowels and consonants. It is quite possible that I am wrong.

Trinabeenabear 13:03, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Deliberate?
Was the alliteration in the first line of the article intentional?

"...stylistic device, or literary technique, in which successive words (more strictly, stressed syllables) begin with the same consonant sound or letter."


 * No, this is "consonance" (see note below) 71.169.154.5 16:54, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Ubuntu
versions of the Linux distro Ubuntu are all given alliterative names - Dapper Drake, Hoary Hedgehog, Breezy Badger. There didn't seem to be a good place to put this, and it didn't seem worthy of a section on its own. Jeremymiles 20:28, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Don't forget Feisty Fawn (= —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.185.19.196 (talk) 08:13, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Future Alliteration
Does this section need to be here at all? It looks rather biased and not journalistic at all. I'm going to remove the section, finding no proper way to change the wording to make it necessary for inclusion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by KitsuneCybe (talk • contribs) 06:40, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Consonance
This article looked more like consonance than alliteration. I changed it (anonymously) to talk more about leading letters, but I am not a linguist... Simonmckenzie 02:06, 10 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Also it really should indicate that the primary usage of alliteration

is to refer to leading consonant sounds. The inclusion of leading vowel sounds is a broadening of the concept. Note that in Old English verse, all initial vowel sounds are treated as equivalent, as in: "All Idahoans Eat Oats". It's not that the vowel sounds repeat - it's that the consonants are all missing. (Which perhaps fits in line with the "initial glottal stop" theory mentioned in the article. --Jenright (talk) 00:39, 28 February 2008 (UTC)


 * The problem is that the pages for consonance, assonance, and alliteration have conflicting information. This page says that assonance and consonance are types of alliteration, but the "Literary Consonance" page says that alliteration is a type of consonance and contrasts assonance with consonance. As far as I know, the consonance page is more accurate.
 * Consonance refers to the repetition of a consonant sound, but the repetition can occur anywhere in the words of a phrase--or even within one word. Alliteration is type of consonance in which the repetition occurs specifically at the beginning of the words.
 * Consonance is contrasted with assonance, the repetition of vowel sounds, though they commonly co-occur.
 * All of these stylistic devices rely on the sounds, not the letters. That's why "king crab" and "giant jaguar" have consonance (and more specifically alliteration), as does "flat rate," but "cheap crab" and "giant glasses" do not.
 * Consonance very often co-occurs with assonance. Phrases containing words with more similarities in sound jump to mind more easily because the words rhyme better--contrast "I baked a quick cake" with "The clever lion's wiles fooled the girl." Both contain consonance (all the k's and l's), but only the first has assonance (bake and cake). Assonance, too, depends on the vowel sounds, not the letters. The verse from Poe's The Raven that's quoted on the "Literary Consonance" page, "And the silken sad uncertain rustling of each purple curtain," has assonance with the ur- sound (not just the letters, since er- sounds the same as ur- here), as well as consonance (silken, sad, uncertain, and rustling) and even alliteration (silken and sad).


 * It would alleviate much of the confusion about the relations between the terms if someone edited all of them so that they agree with each other.

--Andrea, 19 Feb 2010

Ford cars
I read somewhere (on Wikipedia?) that Ford were changing their model names so that they all began with F. Ford Focus, Five Hundred, Fiesta, etc.

But I don't know how true it is. Jeremymiles 20:28, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

== this is true any way .


 * No, it's called alliteration. the term is not specific to vowels or consonants.  "Aunt Anne ain't an alcoholic" is considered alliteration.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.31.67.211 (talk) 16:39, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * False. Alliteration is only consonant sounds.  If you're repeating vowel sounds, whether they're at the beginning, middle, or end of a word, it's called assonance.  Check any dictionary of grammar or rhetoric.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.46.164.128 (talk) 03:16, 4 March 2008 (UTC)


 * In the book containing Tolkien's translation of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, Pearl, and Sir Orfeo, an appendix in the back explains the verse used in the poems. Tolkien specifically describes how alliteration can be used with vowels. Del duð ling 21:34, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Names
A sequence of names surely isn't an example of alliteration, is it? All the "Aethel"s are only alliterative when listed, not simply because the generations shared similar names, surely... ntnon (talk) 18:06, 18 July 2008 (UTC)


 * The point is, as is indirectly indicated in the article, these weren't simply "similar names" - i.e., they were indeed "listed" - check the ref, for example. Anglo-Saxons, as you might expect, held the kin base in high esteem. King lists, most of them claiming descent from the gods, were the norm. Perhaps try to imagine how those king lists would be used - perhaps a ritual declamation when a new king was acclaimed, that sort of thing; and people would frequently have been reminded of the authority of the ruling dynasty, so, alliteration served a purpose. If you want to expand that item in the article on the basis of the ref, or of course other refs, however, by all means go ahead. Hope that helps. (I've since added some further refs to the article, which make it clearer that these names were actually used alliteratively) Nortonius (talk) 18:15, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Alphabetical Alliteration
Alliteration sometimes refers to the first letter of the word, not the sound. Is there a more correct term for that? --zzo38(✉) 04:52, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

suspect example
"Talula Does the Hula From Hawaii" - the T never repeats so how is it an example? It's more of a rhyme than anything. Huw Powell (talk) 01:07, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Exactly. This is an incorrect example - it rhymes but alas, that's not the point of this article. Perhaps something more like "Liz Lemon" from 30 Rock or "Charlotte (Chuck) Charles" from Pushing Daisies would be more appropriate? Do we need permission to delete this or can we just do this? 210.1.221.237 (talk) 11:03, 30 September 2008 (UTC) Lucy

The effect of alliteration
I'd really like to see more about the effect of alliteration, both historically and aesthetically. While poetry isn't my forte, the usage of alliteration beyond poetry (i.e., in advertisement) implies that it has a significant impact. Any thoughts? &mdash;/M endaliv /2¢/Δ's/ 22:04, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

"you smell"
Removed the comment: "You smell" from the end of the Old English Names category. It was simply tacked on the end, completely out of context. Random vandalism on the Alliteration page is a little surprising to me. 66.177.91.158 (talk) 10:55, 29 June 2009 (UTC) Maybe this is a good one or maybe not

The term "word-initial."
The term "word-initial" just simply makes no sense. I find it extremely noisome when people writing articles in Wikipedia use terminology which is specific to their field but no one else has ever heard of. The purpose of these ariticles is not to impress the readers with your eruditeness, it is to educate; and that, you have failed to do by arrogantly using this term with the obvious purpose of showing off. Re-write relativity and then we'll talk. Until then, try to be intelligent by communicating effectively. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.127.200.152 (talk) 02:40, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

--173.188.166.65 (talk) 18:07, 27 September 2009 (UTC)No one{| class="wikitable"

What is so complicated about the term "word-initial"? An initial is simply the first letter of a word, so a word-initial vowel is a vowel at the beginning of a word, which is perfect sense. This argument and tone of this comment is nothing more than a flame against the author of the article by a person too lazy to think things through before making hypocritical accusations of arrogance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.244.81.98 (talk) 19:15, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Guys, Peter Piper Picked A Peck Of Pickled Peppers is a tounge twister. The sounds arn't Alliteration, they're put there to trip someone up, not for affect. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.46.194.54 (talk) 19:44, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

yoooooooooooooooooooooooo —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.252.136.85 (talk) 02:17, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

An initial is simply the first letter of a word, so an initial vowel is a vowel at the beginning of a word. Why get complicated?

Dexter Novels by Jeff Lindsay
An addition to the list of pop culture references are the Dexter books by Jeff Lindsay, who often employs alliteration in his writing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.71.146.235 (talk) 09:36, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Important bit
Isn't there a modern rock band whose song titles are all alliterative? I forget what it is, but could it be notable?  2D Backfire Master  ballroom blitz 13:50, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Spam
For the record, the recent edit by 71.62.181.132 was not good faith, but was in fact spam. Compare edits 211048636 of 16:46, 8 May 2008, by Doriethurston, and 218602708 of 12:09, 11 June 2008, by me. Nortonius (talk) 09:56, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Further to the above, I've just reverted further self-promotion by editor calling themselves "Doriethurston", added in Jan and Feb of this year: if you check their contributions, you'll see that, at the time of writing, every single one has been to the Alliteration article, for the same purpose. Nortonius (talk) 19:39, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Ditto. Nortonius (talk) 19:34, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

"raDADAADADADA!!!"
i changed headline "raDADDADADA!!!" to EXAMPLES because the phrase "Radadadad" is unnecessary, or spam. if that phrase was intended for a purpose, then i apologize. 71.59.51.233 (talk) 23:55, 15 December 2010 (UTC) first discussion post

Gangster Rap Alliteration
Letter P - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQYy-iMkdE8 (NSFW lyrics) 216.27.141.84 (talk) 19:41, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Coca Cola section
A "psychology - memory and recognition" section should be developed, with a "brand name" subsection. There is lots at Google scholar on this. PPdd (talk) 22:27, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Alliterative
There is a redirection to Alliteration from Alliterative. May I therefore suggest that this page covers not only grammatical alliteration, but alliterative architecture, design, etc.

I agree with this suggestion, as I was redirected here from "alliterative" by way of the article about Dub. I realize the reference ('Often these tracks are used for "toasters" rapping heavily rhymed and alliterative lyrics.') could have led me to the right answer, but I feel like there's more to "alliterative" than I learned here. And now I'm curious what alliterative design (for example) might be ... however, since dictionary.com explains the origin of "alliteration" having to do specifically with littera (letter) and only gives meanings of both the noun and the adjective involving its use in words - I don't know that this section is necessary ... although it would be useful. Seeinstaz (talk) 17:10, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Reading further, I'm sure the editor meant "consonance" (strictly speaking). Seeinstaz (talk) 17:25, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Does anyone know how to add an example with sound?
Does anyone know how to add an example with sound? PPdd (talk) 22:19, 9 April 2011 (UTC) troll face — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.73.23.162 (talk) 16:37, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Tolkien did not write Sir Gawain and the Green Knight
Generally, I find Wikipedia's articles to be of good quality. However, this one looks as if someone with very little knowledge of the subject decided to get involved. For a start, Tolkien is one of many who have translated Sir Gawain and the Green Knight into modern English; he did not write the late-14th century, Middle English poem. Alliteration was used much more frequently in Old and Middle English than in modern English, and had much greater importance. Read the original poem to see what I mean. Could someone who is well-versed in Old/Middle English poetry get involved? 219.134.131.226 (talk) Bruce Barrett — Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.134.131.226 (talk) 08:39, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

Popular culture section
I think this article is in halfway decent shape, but the popular culture is a notable exception. It is pretty sparse, but I know it has a history of just having stuff dumped into it. I think there are a lot of good examples that could be legitimately used. There are all sorts of examples in hip-hop, such as "Alphabet Aerobics" by Blackalicious, which recently got some buzz on Jimmy Fallon. And, the use of alliterative character names is quite pervasive throughout Marvel Comics (Peter Parker, Reed Richards, Matt Murdock, Stephen Strange, Bruce Banner, etc.). What are some opinions about how that section ought to be laid out? KConWiki (talk) 01:57, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

Woody Woodpecker
After the list of common examples, someone has written: Occasionally parents and authors use alliteration in the naming of their children and characters, and followed it with Woody Woodpecker.

However, Donald Duck, Mickey Mouse, Minnie Mouse, and Super Sonic were included in the large list. Is there any reason for this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.0.241.241 (talk) 07:20, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

Penelope Pitstop
Mention her, from Speed Racer cartoon show. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.201.31.246 (talk) 15:34, 15 March 2006 (UTC)


 * [HeyGeo] ... actually Penelope Pitstop was a character in the 1969 Wacky Racers cartoon, produced by Hanna-Barbera and a staple of kids Saturday Morning TV in the early 70's. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.213.45.250 (talk) 00:18, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Saddened at overall thrust and quality of article
As a lover of poetry, and one reasonably well-versed in its history and theory, I have to say this article is approaching awful, given the state of the art/knowledge. High school texts generally are better exampled and sourced. Can this be pulled, part and parcel, and a new one worthy of the subject and Wikipedia be put in its place? Asked in earnest, without intent to offend.

I should add, that the better part of the foregoing misses forest for the trees. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.193.8.74 (talk) 01:50, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Apt alliteration's artful aid
Err... maybe my accent is too far from RP but in just don't get this:

"Apt alliteration's artful aid" (despite the unique pronunciation of the "a" in each word)

The first three words all seem to start with a short vowel a sound to me? As in apple/anger/axe/antimony/allotment. If the point is to stress the fact that the vowel sound need NOT be the same, it is just the glottal stop that is alliterative, then surely a better example would use different letters? e.g. "You insist at every opportunity" - which doesn't seem very alliterative to me! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.244.153.18 (talk) 11:32, 19 January 2009 (UTC)


 * This entire paragraph is dubious, as is the quote "Apt alliteration's artful aid", although it is likely that non-purists would disagree; however, in the strictest English definition of alliteration ("alliteration." Encyclopædia Britannica. 2009. Encyclopædia Britannica Online. 04 Nov. 2009 .), that being a repetition of initial consonant sounds, the quoted phrase is only alliterative in the first two words. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.244.81.98 (talk) 19:06, 4 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Jeez. Look at /ˈæpt  əˌlɪtəˈreɪʃənz ˈɑ:tfʊl ˈeɪd/.  There are no repeated initials.  — Chameleon 06:07, 5 September 2011 (UTC)


 * That's the point. The whole thing's about bad poetry, and this line's about poetasters who think that's alliteration. --Thnidu (talk) 15:46, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

Alliteration with S's
What is the alliteration with S's called? 222.153.12.224 (talk) 02:43, 2 March 2015 (UTC)


 * No special name. Maybe you're thinking of "sibilance", which refers to the sort of hissing effect you get with the "s" and "sh" sounds (which are called sibilants), but that's more general than the use of those sounds for alliteration. --Thnidu (talk) 15:51, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

Examples
Please only add truly notable examples that have references supporting them being notable alliterations, not just that they exist. This is not the place to list every alliterative phrases and names you've ever heard. Toddst1 (talk) 20:56, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

like trailer trash? :> — Preceding unsigned comment added by BobPage47 (talk • contribs) 06:53, 25 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, that's pretty clearly a trivial, non-notable example. --Thnidu (talk) 15:52, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

Pop culture
This section mentioned the monolouge in "V for Vendetta" twice. I removed the latter instance. 129.16.197.121 (talk) 15:46, 25 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Now it's removed altogether...
 * I hate it when people rush in with these hasty replies. DBaK (talk) 19:57, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

"peck"
Should "a peck of pickled peppers be changed to "a pack of pickled peppers"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.91.1.31 (talk) 14:26, 10 April 2005 (UTC)


 * No, see peck. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Countmippipopolous (talk • contribs) 06:47, 12 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Yes this IS ok maybe not or maybe it is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.188.166.65 (talk) 18:04, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Most poems could be read and you don't understand them. "peck" instead of "pack" probably has underlay meaning that could be read in many different ways. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.15.83.81 (talk) 14:52, 5 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Do you smell the Hooba? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.59.42.26 (talk) 17:54, 5 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Peck is the correct word from the original Peter Piper poem being quoted, a peck being a unit of volume. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.244.81.98 (talk) 18:49, 4 November 2009 (UTC)