Talk:Almighty (Oh My Goddess!)

Elemental Affinity
Perhaps I just need to reread things, but I do not recall there ever being any suggestion that The Almighty had any elemental affinity, let alone it being lightning: I assume this has just been a misinterpretation of the Zot!. I also believe it is a bit of a stretch to say he can be associated with Zeus simply based on the Zot!: it is best to keep hard facts to these pages, and put speculation on fansites (hence why I am removing it). Elric of Grans 23:02, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I think it is safe to assume the creator of everything can control all elements although this would need cannon refferance. He does prefer/like lighting element (Seeing it in the OVA and TV serries, definately manga too). He prefers to not interfere with events which is also clear. -- Cool CatTalk 05:54, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Saying that he has a tendancy towards using lightning is not wrong, per se, but the Zot! is normally (in anime/computer game terms) not considered elemental. It is also purely speculative that he uses all elements: it would not make sense that he does not, but we do not know it.  I think this area would probably be better labeled as Speculative than his dimension (which I would have thought pretty clear-cut: we KNOW he is in The Heavens). Elric of Grans 22:17, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
 * All I am saying the All Mighty could be an 11th dimention being or who knows. Its not clear if its 10 or beyond or something completely new, it was never specified but yes he sticks around in heaven but even goddess are not allowed to see him directly. -- Cool CatTalk 19:15, 21 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Goddesses have seen him quite a few times, he is more close to the fates than people normaly imgaine. For example, Belldandy saw him face to face on her assignment. It is just that he seldom call upon them.  Even Heaven might not be 10th dimensional, At least in the manga, the only thing that is claimed to be 10th is the belt and the things Skuld made for Lord of terror to destroy the world. I don't really remember is there a claim in the movie, but it seems like only things related to the Human World is 10th. In the manga, the Goddesses actually said that they are from a dimension a lot higher than the human 3rd dimension world. MythSearcher 01:20, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
 * No like lind she was speaking to the statue like thing. Now Urd did hold his hand (although we are not certain that is infact the allmighty or not). Whenever we see the all mighty we do not see him directly... Never the less I do not think its pure fantasy to think The Allmighy is at a higer dimention that rest of the gods and goddesses as well as others. -- Cool CatTalk 13:30, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Gender
I need cited sources to accept the 'male' gender. Sorry. -- Cool CatTalk 02:42, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
 * If it is not male, she is on sterroids: that voice is too deep and masculine to be a woman. I have serious doubts they would make such a simple error in the making of the movie and TV series.  The vague appearance is always masculine too.  In the context of the series, `kami' is always used to for a male divinity, and `megami' for the females: why would they call the highest Goddess Kami-sama in this situation?  I would imagine that, if we looked, we would find he uses a male pronoun when speaking of himself (if there is ever a case of that happening).  I think it is pretty clear-cut as a male. Elric of Grans 03:35, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I realise all of this but again nothing expicit hence speculation. -- Cool CatTalk 04:19, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Almighty could be sexless as in the Movie (when addressing Peorth) and TV (when addressing Lind) he looks like a stone statue. Almighty seems to come in various shapes and could appear in a girls form. -- Cool CatTalk 04:27, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I understand the use of gender in words has little meaning to English speakers, but I would consider that explicit. Just as I would not call a man an actress or a waitress, in Japanese you do not use masculine words to describe a woman --- the pronoun is not explicit enough, however, as they are all relative (feminite males often use watashi in manga; tomboys typically use boku).  I will just reiterate that the use of kami is uncommon in this series, only being used for The Almighty, Celestin, and when speculating about the origin of Welsper (Belldandy thought he might be a God at first).  Anyhoo, I will dive the manga over the break and see if I can come up with anything concrete: if there is nothing, then I believe Unknown would be the best for this field. Elric of Grans 05:40, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Ok with me. Its just that kami-sama is a wierd entitiy by all means he/she/it does not fit to any of the norms. Kosuke Fujishima intentionaly established little regarding him hence why we know nothing aside from being the creator. We do not even have a single manga image of him. -- Cool CatTalk 05:52, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Quite true, but by making The Almighty a completely mysterious entity, it adds flavour. I doubt he will ever reveal too much, as it would ruin the mystery. Elric of Grans 22:17, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
 * The less I know the happier I am :) -- Cool CatTalk 13:31, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Okay... I found what I was looking for. In Field Of Goddess, two of the entries that make comments about Kamisama refer to the character as a "him" via context. The mook is the official "end-all-be-all" manual for the movie, so at least in that setting, Kamisama is male. In my earlier post (I've rewritten it with this one), I mentioned that the Japanese Kanji usage is very distinct in marking the character as male (and this has been stated in other topics around here as well it seems). The 神 is an “archaic” one, and as such, is not gender neutral.

Elric of Grans mentioned that the English Wikipedia should follow whatever Dark Horse outlines (in that particular case, it was the whole L/Rind thing). That said, IIRC, didn't Dark Horse have the Goddesses call Kamisama "Father" at one point (if this was because it was a "religious title" or real relation, who knows). I guess it goes without saying, the dubbed anime use "clearly" male voice actors (i.e. not ambiguous).

I suppose this saying fits most: "The most likely answer is the simplest." All evidence: from the voice acting, to the Kanji, to the implied pronouns, to the general appearance of what little we've seen of him - state Kamisama is male.


 * You all have probably either found out the answer for yourselves, or have given up on the editing war, but in Book 16 of the English adaptation, Mystery Child, Urd definitely calls the Almighty "Daddy" when talking with him on the phone--this does not seem to be the best way to refer to a religious icon. In Book 22, Hild's ultimate price for helping to fix Peorth's size problem is for Urd to call her "Mama Dear" (Okasama in the original, according to the translation notes.  This should establish that Urd's mother is Hild, and since AMG does not seem to have an alternate birthing process like those found in other series, it would make sense that there would need to be a father, ergo, the Almighty.  If this weren't enough proof, in Book 6, long before Hild was even mentioned, Belldandy mentions that she, Skuld, and Urd share a father and are half-sisters.  If the Almighty is Urd's father, and the trio shares a father, then he must be their father, too.--Fuen Fuboo 20:50, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

It has been stated that...
Where/which chapter on the manga is it stated that he is the father of the three goddesses? I am aware of fannon speculations, I am not aware of cannon statements. -- Cool CatTalk 02:45, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I am pretty sure it is canon --- I am sure I can vaguely remember the chapter too. I would need to reread the manga from chapter 1 to find it, however, as I have no recollection of where it appears.  I will reread it in the next week or so, and if I find otherwise I will remove the reference. Elric of Grans 03:30, 20 December 2005 (UTC)


 * And yes, first of all, he has always been called Kami instead of megami. Secondly, he is the father of 3 daughters (at least). Third, In the chapter where Hild appeared, it is stated that they where couples and gave birth to Urd. So, where on earth did anyone get the idea that He is not a male? If anyone claims he is not a male because he can be bisexual, than all the other characters' gender that have not been specifid should be changed to unknown, too.MythSearcher 04:05, 20 December 2005 (UTC)


 * He is the father of all living things too. I talked to several people folowing the manga they also agree this is fannon. While it may have logical basis its not cannon. No explicit statements establishing the family tree. -- Cool CatTalk 04:17, 20 December 2005 (UTC)


 * All we know (based on cannon) is that Urds mother is Hild and all 3 goddess share a common father which could be anyone in the gods family not necesaryly the All Mighty. -- Cool CatTalk 04:21, 20 December 2005 (UTC)


 * BTW, if he is not male, isn't Celestin Unknown, too? And after all, I have never seen a cannon claim of gender for most of the characters beside the Goddess(which obviously claims their gender in their title) and Marller(Which Urd claims her gender to be female in the manga). If we follow the title pattern, then the Almighty should follow that, too, where Kami means a male deity and Megami means a female deity. MythSearcher 01:13, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Actualy Marrler claims she is a women on many occasions in the anime. Primarry reason why it is easy to speculate on anything regarding the allmighty is the fact that he is ment to be a mysterious figure. We never see him. And in the ova where we have a glance at him, he appears more like a woman than man. Since his cheek covers the entier screen one can't really tell... I think "Kami" is his name. Celestin has a name, Every Megami has a name, even Hild has a name. Only Kami lacks a name, I think this article should be moved to Kami-sama (Oh My Goddess!) or something like that.
 * The point is if the manga author didn't want a serious amount of mistery surround the All Mighty we would know more. While we can speculate about a lot of details about the All Mighty I do not believe we should. -- Cool CatTalk 13:50, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
 * -- Cool CatTalk 13:48, 23 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Though it is highly possible that he is known simply as Kami, in any English version Kami would surely be translated to `God'. There are some references early on that he may be Odin, but until that is explicitly noted it would be unwise to name him as such. Elric of Grans 19:52, 23 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Who but The Almighty would be capable of taking Urd away from Hild? And who but one of his daughters would be able to get away with "stealing" his horse, like Urd did? 68.47.234.131 08:04, 27 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I have gone through the Manga once and Colours. Notice only male deities uses the word Kami as a title, and also, the Kanji "神" can also pronunce as "Shin" that appears in other place are always pronuced as "Shin" instead of "Kami". The so call "mystery" is just a fannon, the series uses the word "Kami" as opposes to "Megami" to indicate the differences of "神" and "女神", if he is not female, then the gender is not unknown, but at least "Not female". MythSearcher 06:07, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Yup unknown works :) -- Cool CatTalk 12:17, 24 December 2005 (UTC)


 * No, it does not. Kami is explicitly just used for male deities (Or not female ones but never written down what gender except they are not female). Therefore, I can live with putting down male or not female, but not UnknownMythSearcher 13:41, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Thats fannon. I can accept speculated for his/her/its gender. What is the pronoun used for sexless dieties in japanese? an average person would interprete male from a not female thats something I want to evade. -- Cool CatTalk 13:53, 24 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Than putting down male or unisex should work best. BTW, there are manga images in the lord of terror chapter. Like in the other places, his face is not shown, but there are pictures of him. MythSearcher 14:24, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
 * You are starting to annoy me and thats generaly not a good thing. Fannon has no place on wikipedia. I am teeling you you cannot establish his sex based on the pronoun. Unknown is NPOV everything else is POV (fannon). -- Cool CatTalk 15:51, 24 December 2005 (UTC)


 * It is not Fannon: it is Japanese language. There seems to be agreement that Megami is used for Female, there is never any suggestion that there is any room for a geneder-neutral; Kami, if we ignore this character (where we could say it is currently disputed), is used only with two characters, and in both cases the character was male.  The likelihood that Kami could be used for a female character is likely nil, therefore the gender is not completly unknown.  For some kind of unisex, however, while one could argue linguistically that it might be possible, that is pure speculation without any good reference to support it.  Going only on what the manga tells us, the gender is male, unless stated otherwise in a future chapter.  Elric of Grans 19:30, 24 December 2005 (UTC)


 * It is just that you fantasize on how mysterious he can be and ignore the title of him as Kami instead of Megami where all other terms regarding any other deities that have no known gender is Shin instead. Also, he does not really reside in Yggdrasil, in the manga at least. The picture I just put up, the panel before that one have a peek at the palace of him and it is definitely NOT Yggdrasil. And all of the things you put down is quite fannon, too. His age has never been stated as eternal, his rank has never been stated as ruler of heaven(though he sure has a lot of power, it might just be no one of higher authority came out, yet.) He never showed any ability to use any other elements and no one actually said he can! You are the one that state all of those things and try to fantasy he is something you think he is, not me. MythSearcher 16:45, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
 * OK this is how it is going to happen, a infobox is not the place to speculate do that on your own website. You are now serriously irritating me not just annoying which is a very very bad thing for you. -- Cool CatTalk 16:55, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
 * He is said to be the creator hence he should be as old as the creation (universe), I will not allow a sex asigned to this character as I do not have a picture of him as the manga author did not provide one intentionaly. According to the OVA all goddes ultimately have to follow the orders of Kami-sama. -- Cool CatTalk 16:58, 24 December 2005 (UTC)


 * And then you use your imgaination and such to think his age is eternal? No one has ever said that the creator of all should be or can have eternal life. Well, of course it is easy to say that the Goddesses have eternal life so he should, but that is also speculated, not officially said. Secondly, All Goddesses have to follow his orders does not mean that his rank is ruler of heaven. It can only mean that he has a higher rank than the Goddesses. The rank box should only have the official ranks in it. I can tell you why you are irritated, it is because I showed you how you do not know any of those and thought of it as a fact but refuses to admit it. It is always irritating when people points out you are wrong. BTW, the manga picture was also used in the setting books as his picture, so it should be one of the official picture of him.(or simply because it is one of the only pictures that showed his whole body and is more than just a pure shadow in the manga.) --MythSearcher 17:20, 24 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I believe stating he is eternal is a fair conclusion: we know that all the Goddesses are eternal, and it would likely be a fair conclusion that Gods in the same position (we never meet any in the manga, but there are references, so it is possible) would also be eternal. Though this entitiy could very well follow different rules to the others, I believe it would be pointless to consider alternative possibilities without so much as a suggestion he is different in this aspect.
 * I am not so sure about the word eternal, however. That would suggest true immortality, but we know that they can die: they just do not seem to die of old age. Given they do age, just simply do not die of it, I do not believe we have a word for this, but if we do, we should change to it! Elric of Grans 19:30, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Okay, I hate edit wars
If you can list out any of those claims you just made, fine. However, I really doubt you can find any. Here is a list of what you have to prove by any cannon source: --MythSearcher 16:58, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
 * 1) His age
 * 2) His rank
 * 3) The dimension of Yggdrasil
 * 4) How and when he uses any other elements and shows his ability to be able to use all
 * And please tell me why did you delete the manga picture!

BTW, where did you get the information about him being the creator of the world, anyway? MythSearcher 17:21, 24 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Ok... lets see... -- Cool CatTalk 17:31, 24 December 2005 (UTC)


 * There I vandalised the article. Happier? -- Cool CatTalk 17:33, 24 December 2005 (UTC)


 * No, because the problem is still not solved, and you have improved the article, not vandalized it.(or vandalized it before and changed it back to more appropriate, your choice of how to think of it yourself, it is not my business.) Either we need to get more solid facts or we need to have more information for people to speculate for themselves. I'd say we still need to find either solid proof of those facts never exsisted or those facts themselves. MythSearcher 17:43, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
 * How about this? I really think he/she/it is ethernal. As creating the universe, he should be as old as the creation. :P -- Cool CatTalk 21:22, 26 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Well, if he is the creator, he should be as old as the creation, but there is no proof that the creation itself is eternally old. In other Goddesses cases, I found Unknown on their age field in Colours, not Eternal.  I think the best description is Not affected by human time not Eternal. What do you think about that? MythSearcher 04:27, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Doable, how about "Appears 21" for belldandy for example? -- Cool CatTalk 11:24, 28 December 2005 (UTC)


 * That will create another problem, since it is subjected to personal view of age, there is no base on how old they look. In one panel/scene they might look young and another will look old. I'd say just leave it unknown since the official data says unknown. MythSearcher 15:03, 28 December 2005 (UTC)