Talk:Almira Skripchenko

poker
Somebody clean up her poker area. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.15.115.205 (talk) 04:01, 22 June 2009 (UTC)


 * ✅ Bubba73 (talk), 05:00, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Shogi
Hi,

One of the categories this article belongs to is Category:Shogi players, yet there is no mention of shogi at all in the article. So, I have added a "category unsourced" template per WP:CG. If Ms. Skripchenko is also notable as a shogi player, then that information should be added to the article and properly sourced. If, however, she is not, then the category should be removed. - Marchjuly (talk) 06:43, 5 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Almira have played at ISF1999 as representative from Moldova.Shogiru (talk) 07:28, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the information . Is simply the mention of her name as a participant in a shogi tournament, however, enough to establish her notability as a shogi player? Does the source given above satisfy WP:RS? If Ms. Skripchenko is notable as a shogi player, then there should be other sources (even possibly non-English ones) that can be properly cited and such information should be added to article. Otherwise, as it stands, there does not seem to be any real reason for the article to be listed under "Category shogi players". - Marchjuly (talk) 08:36, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
 * During ISF2011 she (with Kitao Madoka) has won (sorry for my broken English) the Moriuchi Toshiyuki, 18th Lifetime Meijin, at RB handicap.
 * @Shogiru:  No need to apologize for your English, I have no problem understanding you. For what it's worth, I have beaten a professional in a handicap shogi game as have many others, but I'm not sure if that's enough to establish notability as a shogi player. The main problem with categorizing her as a "shogi player" is that there's no mention of shogi at all in the article. If Ms. Skripchenko is notable as a shogi player, then that information is something that should be added to the article. The problem then is establishing that notability with reliable sources. I have been searching for sources in both Japanese and English and all I've been able to find have been blogs, etc. that says "she has played shogi", but nothing really establishing her notability as a "shogi player". I can't read the website you cited above, but I did see her picture and it's the same picture I've seen on those blogs so it's probably about the same event. Once again, I am not sure if that is enough to establish notability as a shogi player. This seems like a trivial characteristic or intersection to me. There are quite a few professional chess players who play shogi. Garry Kasparov has played shogi before as can be seen here, and here. The fact professional chess players such as Kasparov play (or have played shogi) can be verified, but that still doesn't mean they should be categorized as a "shogi player" on WIkipedia. They may "play shogi" as a hobby or even occasionally online or OTB, but shogi is not something that really makes them notable. WP:CG says that categorizations should be verifiable, maintain a neutral point of view and be a defining characteristic of the subject of the article. I'm not sure if shogi is something that really defines Ms. Skripchenko, any more than it defines Kasparov, or other chess players who play or have played shogi such as Hikaru Nakamura, Joel Lautier, Jonathan Tisdall, Maxime Vachier-Lagrave, etc. - Marchjuly (talk) 01:48, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, seems you're right, and this categorization should be deleted. I just wasn't sure about level of notability, which is necessary for categorization (for non-japanese players ISF is the most top level tournament, and she is one of 32 representatives at the very 1st ISF. Sure, it's not enough for notability as a shogi player. Maybe, also for adding "shogi player" category...)Shogiru (talk) 12:22, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
 * BTW, it's only 2 (Almira & Kaufman) of those 32, about whom I see wiki article exists... About reliability of source, author of this article Reiger Grimbergen is the top Europe shogi player some 20 yrs before and also known for his one-of-the-best shogi sites in english...Shogiru (talk) 12:34, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

I think (but I'm not 100% sure) that it's OK to mention that Ms. Skripchenko plays shogi and played in the ISF in her article. She's obviously notable enough from chess and poker to have a Wikipedia article written about her, I just don't think that she's done enough in shogi to be categorized as a "shogi player". I couldn't find her name on any of the FESA rating lists going all the way back to 1994. I couldn't find a FESA player's profile page for her. I couldn't even find her name on any old shogi tournament crosstables going back to 1990. I cannot read the Russian link your cited, but if you think that website satisfies WP:RS then you can use it as a source and add the shogi stuff if you want. Sources do not have to be in English (See WP:NOENG). I am familiar with Reijer's site and with Reijer himself. Personally, I agree with you that Reijer's website is quite good and reliable, but other editors may not feel it satisfies WP:RS because of WP:UGC. Reijer just lists her as one of the participants in that ISF; there's no other mention of her at all in that report. Now, if you want to cite Reijer's page a source, then I think the only thing you can really use it for is to say Ms. Skripchenko played in that ISF on behalf of Moldova; I don't think you can use it as a source for any other shogi related info about her. Larry Kaufman's case, on the other hand, is quite different because he's fairly well established as a shogi player. He has written about shogi and is a well-known active player who has competed in many tournaments both within and outside of Japan. He is considered by many to be as close as an "expert" on handicapped shogi as you will find outside of Japan. In many ways, he may be more notable as a shogi player than he is as a chess player. It's quite possible that an article would have still been written about him even if he wasn't a chess grandmaster. Much more probably could (and should) be added to his article about his shogi playing. There's really no great rush to remove the category. I just added the template and posted here in the hope that people would want to discuss it. Since you originally added the category, you may remove it if you choose. I can see no harm, however, in waiting awhile to see if other wiki editors would like give their opinions. Perhaps somebody else will come along and say that the category should stay. If in a week or so things are still as is, then probably the category can be removed without any controversy. - Marchjuly (talk) 13:58, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
 * ✅.Shogiru (talk) 09:47, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

Citations, etc.
I' ve tried to add as many references as I could find for Skripchenko's personal life, chess playing and poker playing. Most of what I have found seem to satisfy both WP:RS and WP:BLPSOURCES. I say "seem" because I'm not sure about the poker related sites; They seem to be reliable third-party sources at least to me. I also tried to use as many of the existing sources as possible. However, since these appear to have been added a long time ago, they formating they used was pretty basic. In order add more detail to the new citations I added and prevent link rot I used citation templates. WP:CITEVAR does say that I "should defer to the style of the first major contributor" and "Adding citation templates to an article that already uses a consistent system without templates, or removing citation templates from an article that uses them consistently", but it also says "Imposing one style on an article with incompatible citation styles (e.g., some of the citations in footnotes and others as parenthetical references): an improvement because it makes the formatting consistent". I realize I created the inconsistency by adding templates, but I do honestly feel this is an improvement over the older style. There were three original citations, including one that was a "deadlink", and I added twelve more. If, however, others feel I went too far and feel it's best to go back to original style, then that is fine with me. It's not as easy to do, but the same information can be added to the old style as well.

I also tried to clean up various wikilinks per MOS:LINK2SECT, WP:SPECIFICLINK and WP:LINKCLARITY wherever I felt would be an improvement. Again if the consensus is to go back to original wikilink style then that is fine with me.

Please discuss if you have any questions or comments. Thanks in advance. - Marchjuly (talk) 06:07, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

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