Talk:Alodia

Some Confusion
The sentence, "His rule was initially dated to 999–1015; but, based on paleographical grounds, it is now dated more broadly, to the 9th or 10th centuries." Leads me to suspect that, throughout, you are doing what way too many people do: down-shifting your century counts. I.e., calling the 900s the ninth century, when it is the tenth century; and calling the 1000s the tenth century, when it should rightly be called the 11th century. Either that or the paleography shifted everything a century back in time. The article is extensive, and you HAVE done a lot of research. (Now if only someone could do the same for the other two (2) Christian kingdoms of Medieval Nubia. But this confusion of centuries Must be cleaned up. Or straightened out. For every historical piece in the 'pedia.     But thank you for what you have done.

Getting this entry going for "Good article"-status
I have now spent over a half year working on this entry, putting a lot of time in researching, reading and writing. I think now it has reached a status where it can get nominated as a "Good article". This is why I initiated a "Peer review", and I would like to ask people to check my entry to see if it is ripe to be honoured with that status. Thank you very much, LeGabrie (talk) 15:25, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

Clarification needed
In the section Foreign trade we have this sentence: "The contacts with the The extend of the trading relations with Christian Ethiopia are uncertain." Can anyone clear up what is intended? Perhaps can explain? Jodosma (talk) 18:06, 3 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Brainfart from my side. Now corrected by deleting "The contacts with the". LeGabrie (talk) 18:28, 3 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Looks OK but don't you mean extent instead of extend? Jodosma (talk) 18:31, 3 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Jup, that's what I meant. Feel free to let me know if you spot further grammar mistakes or if you have content questions!LeGabrie (talk) 19:03, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

Aρογα, Aroua
Why is Aρογα transliterated Aroua? Should the Greek be Aρουα? I tried to find these terms through Google and came up with nothing. What is the source for the Greek? Several sources I check describe "Alodia" as the Greek name, as opposed to Arabic Alwa. Srnec (talk) 14:26, 4 April 2019 (UTC)


 * Was Greek lettering used as a fudge because Nubian is not widely supported? Perhaps somebody experienced with FAs should look at this, since we can't use Greek and call it Greek when we are representing Nubian, but I'm not sure Old Nubian should be in the lead if enough devices can't render it properly. Srnec (talk) 14:05, 5 April 2019 (UTC)


 * "Alodia" appears in the records of John of Ephesus, but "Aroua" appears in native Nubian sources (one document from Qasr Ibrim and a graffito from Faras) written in Greek, that's why I chose "Aroua". How the kingdom was called in Nubian is still not certain, though it was probably similar to "Aroua" or "Alwa". LeGabrie (talk) 12:33, 8 April 2019 (UTC)


 * That's not how I read it. I see Aroua as one of the "Old Nubian elements" noted by Lajtar in the vocabulary of the inscription. Pierce makes this explicit by calling it "Gk/ON" in his list of Nubian-language toponyms. (It is like España in the sentence, "I am from España". It does not become the English name of the country by being used in an English sentence.) In any case, Aρογα is clearly wrong. ⲁⲣⲟⲩⲁ corresponds to Aρουα. Srnec (talk) 16:53, 8 April 2019 (UTC)


 * "I see Aroua as one of the "Old Nubian elements" noted by Lajtar in the vocabulary of the inscription." That's speculation of yours tho. "Makouria", the other toponym mentioned in the text, is clearly Greek, not Nubian, since the Nubian name for Makuria was Dotawo. Furthermore, a few months ago I was in contact with Mr. Lajtar and he told me that the native name of Alodia is still not precisely known. If you still find a source that explicitly suggests an endonym you are of course free to add it. LeGabrie (talk) 17:47, 10 April 2019 (UTC)


 * Well, in LeGabrie's defense, it could also be all-caps, which is still Greek. You're right that's not the same as γ, of course. — Llywelyn II   03:36, 25 April 2019 (UTC)


 * I fixed the formatting of the Greek and Arabic. Alodia is obviously a transcription of the actual Greek name Ἀλοδία, which I found several cites for; I included one from a Byzantist who presumably knows whereof she speaks. There are also citations for Ἀλουα (not Ἀρουα) on the internet but they're less trustworthy to the point where it's not worth mentioning until a better cite is found.


 * If there are Nubian inscriptions featuring the name Aroua in Nubian or Coptic, that's great and should be included but A) those languages aren't Greek, B) those languages don't use Greek script, C) if it is medieval Greek you should include the word's aspiration and accent marks, and D) you'll need citations in the text. It's probably better if all of the name material were gathered into a single #Name section just under the lead. In any case, "Aroua" in some graffiti wouldn't be a reason to ignore "Alodia" in the sources; the article should include both. — Llywelyn II   02:58, 25 April 2019 (UTC)


 * Also,, 1st, thanks for all the work and love put into this page. 2nd, try to use the proper ʾ or ʿ mark for Arabic transcriptions since a simple ' could be either one of them. You can find them in the Arabic menu at the bottom of the edit page. 3rd, is there a reason the page didn't mention the alternate name forms found on the German, French, &c. versions of this article? If it was just to keep the lead clean, I'd say it's another reason to think about adding a #Name section. — Llywelyn II   03:30, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
 * The term "Alodia" actually doesn't appear in a single source, but is made up by modern scholars out of the ethnonym "Alodeans" as it appears in John of Ephesus report of their Christianization. I quote a private conversation I've once had with Prof. Adam Lajtar: "I would suggest to abandon the name Alodia as suspect. In many cases it is just a creation of modern scholars made out of the ethnonyms "Alodeans/Alwades"" (2018). I suggest we stick to "Aroua", as is this the certain name of the kingdom in Nubian Greek, attested in a graffito from Faras and a letter from Qasr Ibrim.
 * Names like "Alodien" in German or "Alodie" in French are just indigenizations of "Alodia". The attested historical names remain Alwa (Arabic sources and a Greek papyrus from the sixth century, see Pierce 1995), Aroua and John of Ephesus "Alodeans". LeGabrie (talk) 13:13, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Edit: I just rechecked John of Ephesus and apparently, in one passage the state is explicitly referred to as "Alodia": "The narrative of Longinus entering the Alodian country and how he converted them with gladness and baptized them." Don't know if the translation is 100% faithful or if in the Greek original it's "in the country of the Alodeans" but ayway, the Nubian-Greek name has priority. LeGabrie (talk) 18:26, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

Great article and good work
Thank you everyone for making this article featured on the main page. It is important as it brings up some of our most forgotten historical tragedies. Dagana4 (talk) 16:38, 25 April 2019 (UTC)