Talk:Alpha Phi Omega/2009

Information as of January 30th
373 Active 052 ActiveInactive 016 ActiveInterest Group 014 ActivePetitioning Group 016 Closed School 285 Inactive

(This is from http://www.apo.org/show/How_to_Start_a_Chapter/Chapter_List), ActiveInactive is what comes up for an extension effort prior to Interest Group.)


 * Thanks for letting me know. I'll have to fix that. Those forms shouldn't be pulling up anything for Prospect Groups. In the meantime, this page is working properly. Dr. Cash (talk) 15:45, 30 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I should have kept my mouth shut, I like the extra data I can get that way. :)Naraht (talk) 16:42, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

14 Petitioning Group: Alabama State University (R IV, S 69) California State University, Fullerton (R X, S 2) Colorado School of Mines (R VIII, S 30) Defiance College (R V, S 56) Elizabeth City State University (R III, S 80) Ivy Tech Community College (R VI, S 31) Montclair State University (R I, S 99) St. Anselm College (R I, S 94) Tarrant County College SE (R VII, S 41) Tulane University (R VII, S 45) University of Illinois at Springfield (R VI, S 47) University of the District of Columbia (R III, S 85) Wayland Baptist University (R VII, S 40) Winona State University (R IX, S 23)

16 Interest Group: Brookhaven College (R VII, S 41) DeSales University (R II, S 91) Harold Washington College (R VI, S 51) Midwestern State University (R VII, S 41) North Western Michigan College (R VI, S 53) Park University (R VIII, S 35) Park University, DSCC campus(?) (R V, S 59) Parkland College (R VI, S 50) Penn State Beaver (R V, S 65) Pennsylvania State University Altoona College (R II, S 90) Richard Stockton College of New Jersey (R I, S 99) University of California at Santa Cruz (R X, S 4) University of Nevada, Las Vegas (R X, S 2) University of Pittsburgh at Johnstown (R V, S 66) University of Texas at Tyler (R VII, S 41) Western Connecticut State University (R I, S 96)

Naraht (talk) 14:36, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Information as of April 15th, 2009

 * 367 Active
 * 020 Interest Group
 * 013 Petitioning Group
 * 016 Closed School
 * 343 Inactive

(This is from http://www.apo.org/show/How_to_Start_a_Chapter/Chapter_List)

Petitioning Groups


 * Alabama State University (R IV, S 69)
 * Brookhaven College (R VII, S 41)
 * California State University, Fullerton (R X, S 2)
 * Colorado School of Mines (R VIII, S 30)
 * Ivy Tech Community College (Indianapolis) (R VI, S 31)
 * Park University (R V, S 59)
 * St. Anselm College (R I, S 94)
 * Tarrant County College (SE Campus) (R VII, S 41)
 * Tulane University (R VII, S 45)
 * University of Illinois at Springfield (R VI, S 47)
 * University of the District of Columbia (R III, S 85)
 * Wayland Baptist University (R VII, S 40)
 * Winona State University (R IX, S 23)

Interest Groups


 * Alabama A&M University (R IV, S 69)
 * DeSales University (R II, 91)
 * Harold Washington College (R VI, S 51)
 * Midwestern State University (R VII, S 41)
 * New England College (R I, S94)
 * North Western Michigan College (R VI, S53)
 * Northwestern University (R VI, S 51)
 * Park University (R VIII, S 35)
 * Parkland College (R VI, S 50)
 * Penn State Beaver (R V, S65)
 * Pennsylvania State University Altoona College (R II, S90)
 * Regent University (R III, S83)
 * Richard Stockton College of New Jersey (R I, S 99)
 * University of California at Santa Cruz (R X, S 4)
 * University of Nevada, Las Vegas (R X, S 2)
 * University of Pittsburgh at Johnstown (R V, S 66)
 * University of Puerto Rico at Bayamon (R IV, S 98)
 * University of Texas at Tyler (R VII, S 41)
 * University of Texas-El Paso (R VII, S 40)
 * Western Connecticut State University (R I, S 96)

Naraht (talk) 16:05, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

external links in text
I notice that lots of external links have sprung up in the article text itself. Mostly, these are links to lists of chapters and things of that nature, although there are a few other external links as well, such as links to buildings the national office was located in and such. Unfortunately, including direct external links in the text of articles is NOT in agreement with Wikipedia's manual of style and external links guidelines. It's acceptable to put a link to something in the text if it's used in a inline reference citation, but plain external links need to be moved to the "external links" section at the end of the article.

I also take issue with the multiple second- and third-level headers used in the 'organization' section. This makes it very difficult to determine which headers are the main ones (2nd level) and which ones are the minor (3rd level) headers. It is very poor form and looks bad, especially when you overuse these lower level headings by putting very little text in the section underneath it.

The article will never pass GA or FA review with this issues. Dr. Cash (talk) 14:05, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Most of those movements into the text are my fault. They fall into two categories, as you said. The ones for the buildings and the ones for the Philippine chapters. For the buildings, do you think any of them could be their won article? For the Columbia Bank, perhaps a comment of destroyed, with the link as a reference there.


 * Articles on individual buildings are acceptable in some cases, particularly for historical buildings. However, articles on personal (non-historic) residences are not considered notable, and will probably end up at WP:AfD. Dr. Cash (talk) 19:17, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Hmm. Maybe the Mainmark. I'll take a look. In the mean time I should get rid of the non-internal links in the section (I'll add one to National Register of Historic Places listings in Missouri, Counties J-K for the Mainmark. I'm not sure for the others. Naraht (talk) 03:22, 30 May 2009 (UTC)


 * For the chapters, I was looking at most of the other Fraternity articles. Most of them have chapter lists, and while putting that into this article won't work (even longer than the famous alumni), for most it *is* a first level header. The way that we've set things up, information on APO-USA chapters would be inside of the five level organization structure. I'd like to put it as a first level header, but if that is done it runs into the entire problem of the fact that there should be a separate article for APO-Phil. Do you think we should have the APO-USA chapter list as its own page? What about APO-Phil?Naraht (talk) 15:04, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I was thinking it might be nice to create separate list articles of lists of APO-USA and APO-PHIL chapters. While a wikipedia-based list of APO-USA chapters seems redundant, since it's readily available to all at www.apo.org, a listing of APO-PHIL chapters is not readily available at that website, and a separate list in Wikipedia would make this information more readily accessible. It might be good to also include in these lists, dates of chartering (and rechartering, where applicable). Dr. Cash (talk) 19:17, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Actually, I think that a list of USA articles could be in a more accessible and easier to read format that the one at apo.org. If you guys decide to do it, drop me a note.  If it's in the next few weeks, I can devote some time to working on it.  I probably can't help you much with the Filipino one.  I think that's all you, Randy.  =)  Henrymrx (t&middot;c) 21:10, 29 May 2009 (UTC)


 * For APO-Phil, I think everything except whether they are currently active is at the one I just added at for http://nujsimon.liondrive.com/CHAPTERS%20AND%20ALUMNI%20ASSOCIATION.xls. Hmm. download the file as xls, output as csv, loop through the file using perl to add data on any extra lines to the parent field above, transform each date into a dts template and wikilink the schools and the locations and output with |- before each line and | before each field. Shouldn't be too bad.


 * For APO-USA, OTOH, I think we have everything except their chartering dates. I used to have access to a DB at nationals which had that in relatively accessible form, but let me see what I can get from USA-Nationals by asking nicely. I can at least create one for USA with the chapter, school and status relatively easily by writing some shell code to shift around what's on the apo-usa site into a table...Naraht (talk) 04:03, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

APO Philippines Chapters page.
Please take a look at Alpha Phi Omega (Philippines) Chapters and Alumni Associations and let me know what you think for a first try. It's from the http://nujsimon.liondrive.com/CHAPTERS%20AND%20ALUMNI%20ASSOCIATION.xls spreadsheet. It was transformed using perl, so any mispellings are in the original. My tweeks still need to be done...Naraht (talk) 17:55, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Working on it. Hope you don't mind.  =)  Henrymrx (t&middot;c) 19:12, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * That's quite alright. I did clash with you on some of my edits, but that will treat me to do it while waiting for things at work to compile. I'm going to wait until we get the major issues out before I add on the Alumni Associations.Naraht (talk) 20:21, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Alpha Phi Omega (Philippines) Chapters and Alumni Associations is complete to this point. As far as I know, I've brought it up to date with the Torch and Trefoil from the 25th NBC including all of the proper current regions. Next stop APO-USA.Naraht (talk) 15:07, 15 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Are we sure we want to put alumni associations in the chapter listings? I know, at least for the APO-USA organization, alumni associations are very fluid and they seem to come and go at the whim of whoever's running it at the time. Though supposedly, APO-RP has a bit more of an alumni focus? Dr. Cash (talk) 21:51, 22 June 2009 (UTC)


 * *Much* less fluid. The one pieces of information we don't have is what chapters/alumni associations are inactive (other than the closed schools), but from what I've seen, APO-RP AA's don't go under near as often. Each of the 11 Regions has am Alumni Director on the Board, where only the 7 Regions with chapters have a Director for the chapters... I'm leaning away from having APO-USA AA's on the APO-USA chapter list page.Naraht (talk) 01:51, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Name
It occurs to me that the article does not indicate the fraternity's correct name, which is Alpha Phi Omega National Service Fraternity. I'd like to add that, but something needs to indicate what the full name of APO in the Philippines is. And... I'm not sure what that is. It used to be Alpha Phi Omega National Fraternity and Sorority, Inc. At least, I think that's what it used to be. The website seems to have conflicting information. Thoughts? Henrymrx (t·c) 19:03, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * How is that the Fraternity's correct name? Article I of the APO-USA National Bylaws clearly state: The name of this Fraternity shall be ALPHA PHI OMEGA. And while the bylaws do refer to Alpha Phi Omega National Service Fraternity (In the duties of the International Relations Director and the purpose of the National Alumni Association), I don't consider that to override Article I. The Articles of Incorporation which override the bylaws, never use the term Alpha Phi Omega National Service Fraternity. The Standard Chapter Articles of Incorporation are inferior (in a legal sense) to the bylaws and thus, IMO, irrelevant. There is even a use of Alpha Phi Omega, National Service Fraternity (note the comma) in the establishment of the Risk Management policy.Naraht (talk) 19:47, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Well... Clearly, I don't know what I'm talking about. =) Henrymrx (t&middot;c) 20:19, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Sorry for the sharp tone in my response, I was dealing with a stressful person at work.Naraht (talk) 20:37, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * No need to apologize. I included a smiley, but it doesn't show up very well on these pages. Henrymrx (t&middot;c) 21:16, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Also, according to google "Alpha Phi Omega National Fraternity and Sorority" doesn't exist as a string on http://www.apo.org.ph/Naraht (talk) 19:47, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I knew that I wasn't sure about that one. Henrymrx (t&middot;c) 20:19, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I'd like to know as well. I'm fairly sure if it does include the word fraternity, it will include sorority.Naraht (talk) 20:37, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

A-Phi-Q
Who calls Alpha Phi Omega "A-Phi-Q"? It's in the very first sentence of the article, but I have never heard this used. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.185.239.160 (talk) 05:37, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It is a nickname mostly used by chapters at Historically black colleges and universities. Henrymrx (t&middot;c) 07:00, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I very much agree that it is mostly used at HBCUs. Does anyone have a reference for that? Also, does anyone have anything close to a guideline on APO vs. APhiO? I *think* APhiO is mostly a Region V thing, but I've heard mentions from Florida as well.Naraht (talk) 10:40, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Coat of Arms vs. Crest
The change was made earlier today of the description of the image from Crest to Coat of Arms and then reverted. After looking at the Wikipedia articles for Coat of Arms and Crest (heraldry) and the fact that the National Office is *totally* inconsistent (though the ritual, story behind the founding *and* the bylaws all use Coat of Arms), I've changed it to Coat of Arms.


 * Just for clarification, I reverted it because it was annon, no reason to change, and couldn't see it making any difference either way. Assuming the above info about use in rituals and bylaws and story is true (don't have any of that stuff here), I have no problem with the change.  Always heard it referred to as the crest, not Coat of Arms, including at regional and National meetings, but doesn't make it right or wrong. Maybe some way of listing it as both?  Don't know if that is possible.  Which will be les confusing to people should be the deciding factor. - IanCheesman (talk) 07:26, 11 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I understand. Well given that it only comes up if you hover over the image, I don't think it's that necessary to show both. If we have a section for the symbols of the fraternity then perhaps...Naraht (talk) 14:05, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Alpha Phi Omega (Philippines)
Well, it got created (by someone who doesn't appear to have much wikipedia experience). Let's work on getting it right.Naraht (talk) 13:47, 19 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I've moved the article to History of Alpha Phi Omega in the Philippines. I feel strongly that a separate article on the national organization is NOT appropriate, but can see the advantages of separating out the historical aspects, which is probably what the article is mostly going to consist of anyway. Dr. Cash (talk) 14:06, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Please see rationale for the move at Talk:History of Alpha Phi Omega in the Philippines. If anyone has a better idea for how to organize the Alpha Phi Omega pages on Wikipedia any better, it would be nice to hear it. Overall, none of the APO pages currently here would go so far as to pass a WP:FAC or WP:GAN review (probably not even C-class). Information seems to be mixed together in a generic hodgepodge of articles and sections with little order whatsoever, and little regard for Wikipedia's manual of style. Dr. Cash (talk) 14:59, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Future ideas for Alpha Phi Omega related articles.
Right now there are 13 articles in the Alpha Phi Omega category:
 * Alpha Phi Omega
 * Alpha Phi Omega (Philippines) Chapters and Alumni Associations
 * Alpha Phi Omega national conventions
 * Alpha Phi Omega chapters
 * Alpha Phi Omega chapters (chronological)
 * Alpha Phi Omega chapters (geographical)
 * Harold Roe Bartle
 * History of Alpha Phi Omega in the Philippines
 * Frank Reed Horton
 * List of Alpha Phi Omega members
 * Template:Alpha Phi Omega (Philippines) National Presidents
 * Template:Alpha Phi Omega (USA) National Presidents
 * U. P. Oblation

The Alpha Phi Omega chapters (chronological) and Alpha Phi Omega chapters (geographical) chapter lists are transcluded onto the Alpha Phi Omega chapters list.

I'd like to eventually see a good deal more of the Alpha Phi Omega of the Philippines information moved over with the History of Alpha Phi Omega in the Philippines and the article renamed.

I'm not sure any of the other APO National presidents can support their own articles, though.

I think that the Oblation run can probably be expanded into its own article given the number of occurances which have happened recently at campuses which aren't part of the University of the Philippines.

Other ideas?Naraht (talk) 13:36, 22 December 2009 (UTC)