Talk:Alpine skiing combined

Two-run-format at Kitzbühel
I did correct the article, because the Hahnenkamm-Combined was always a "Two-run-format" (in general, downhill on Saturday, Slalom on Sunday). And in the present, there is an exception to all the other "Super-Combined"-Races: It is scheduled to be held on Friday, and the Super-G-Race is a separated race; the first 30 of the race will gain World Cup Points according to the regulations (100 points for the winner, 80 for the second a.s.o.) - in addition with the (one-run) Slalom (held as a "night event") it is the "Hahnenkamm-Super-Combined"; therefore a racer could gain 200 points on one day if he would be victorious as well in the Super-G and having the best clocked time after the slalom (he mustn't win the slalom). - In regard to the first Alpine Combined Events I would like to point out that racers (male and female) were as well good slalom as downhill racers. Jean-Claude Killy could win the downhill and slalom in 1967 Hahnenkamm-Races, but at that time Alpine Combined was no part of World Cup. If a racer could achieve such a performance he was a Zero-Point-Winner in the Combined (because in the point-calculation for the Combined first place was zero points, and according to the margins and other factors, the further points to be given was to calculate). As a consequence, that Alpine Combined was ignored by World Cup Officials, in those years the racers (at first, the male racers) did more and more concentrate on speed disciplines or technical disciplines. When Alpine Combined was established until 1974/75, it was a little too late for "re-animation". Several Alpine Combined Events (also at Hahnenkamm - I would like to prefer the term "Event" because the Combined was a paper race) were finished with five competitors, and there were racers in such a classement which you could find at the last page in a list of result in a slalom race or downhill race. That Ingemar Stenmark did compete in a Hahnenkamm-Downhill Race in 1981, you can find in the talk about him. But that Combined in 1981 (like another Combined Events) was a "combined race" with a Special Slalom which was held several days before in Germany (the "Orginal Hahnenkamm Combined 1981" was non World Cup Event). By saying that Pirmin Zurbriggen once was the only one racer who is to find in a list of result of the Alpine Combined Event at Lauberhorn on January 18th, 1987 (because no of the other downhill racers did compete in the Slalom - in other Events it could be that downhill racers didn't finish the slalom, but always a few racers were to find in the list of result; therefore Mr. Zurbriggen had all time to finish the race), I'll come to the end. 213.225.13.201 (talk) 20:50, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

Combined Events in the very past time
As stated in the talks about the Arlberg-Kandahar, Combined Events did receive high marks. - And there were Events named "Four-Event-Combined" or "Four-Run-Event" (only for male racers). There were a few racers (maybe 15 or 20?) who did compete in the Alpine Events (downhill, slalom) and in the Nordic Events (ski cross and jumping); by adding the points of the Alpine Events with the points of the Nordic Event, the result was given. In regard to the Alpine Combined the winner of a portion did gain 100 points; after the Second World War the method did change: The winner did gain zero points. But, in general, calculation of the Combined Result was done in the same way. 213.225.8.19 (talk) 15:27, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

Time Adding insteed Calculation of Points, Order of Start and Scheduling in the Winter Olympics and World Championships
Up from the season 1993/94, the clocked time of portion one (race one) and the clocked time of portion two (race two) is added (as well in the Alpine World Cup as in the Alpine Skiing Events at the Winter Olympics and to the World Championships).
 * In regard to the Alpine Skiing Events at the Winter Olympics and to the World Championships up from 1982, I would like to point out that the separated downhill race and the two-run slalom race was carried out likewise all other downhill races and slalom races at that time. There was a list of start for the downhill race and a list of start for the slalom race (dependent on the "World Cup Starting List", in short "WCSL"); the second leg of the slalom race was started according the results of the first leg ("Bibbo regulation" - please, see talk about Giant Slalom). Maybe, that list of start was a little different to the "WCSL" because there were (and are still) different permissions (therefore, you can see another racers in Winter Olympics and World Championships). - I don't know, but I would like to suppose, that since the late 1990ies, the second portion was dependent on the result of the first portion; likewise in the Giant Slalom and "Special Slalom" the second portion (in general, it was the slalom, i.e. the first leg of the slalom) did start with the thirtieth placed racer of the first portion till the first placed as the last one, but (I'm not sure) with continuing with the thirtyfirst placed until to the last placed racer. And the second leg of the slalom anew did start (by updating the list of result) with the last one of the first 30 placed a.s.o.
 * Scheduling: When the Alpine Combined did become a separated Event in the Winter Olympics and World Championships (since 1982), the scheduling was not well by determine the first portion several days before the second portion - when that second portion was to race most of the public did have forgotten the result of the first portion (and maybe, if an Event had to been postponed, the Alpine Combined was the "makeweight" - the other Events did be preferred to the Alpine Combined); such a manner did depreciate the Alpine Combined. 213.225.8.19 (talk) 16:18, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

World Cup
I would like to point out that I do cit. the German Wikipedia (and knowing by myself). Now and then, the Combined (as a "paper-race") was carried out with a downhill and giant slalom or Super-G and slalom and (a small number) with a Super-G and downhill. Questionability was holding of Alpine Combined at two ski resorts; partly due to postponing, partly due to scheduling - but always the public wasn't able to reenact. There was differences of a month between the first portion and the second portion. Like stated in another (above) section, in the early 1980ies, the Hahnenkamm-Combined was carried out with the slalom race in a ski resort of Bavaria followed by the downhill race in Kitzbühel.

Most wins of Alpine Combined (incl. "Super Combined): Female: Hanni Wenzel (eight), Annemarie Moser-Pröll (seven) and Erika Hess and Maria Höfl-Riesch (each one four). - Male: Phil Mahre, Pirmin Zurbriggen and Marc Girardelli (each one eleven times). 213.225.8.19 (talk) 17:27, 4 January 2017 (UTC)
 * In a Nation Summary, Switzerland is in lead (always ahead to Austria): Swiss female racers did win 27 times, Austrian 22 times; Swiss male racers did win 30 times, Austrian (likewise female racers) 22 times. 213.225.8.19 (talk) 17:35, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

Night race
In the FIS Alpine Skiing World Championships 1996, the Slalom of Alpine Combined was a "night race"; it was the first time in World Championships that a race was held in the late evening. But in the later years it became usually to carry out slaloms (as well "Special Slaloms" as "Combined ones") as a night race (and it was also done in the World Cup). Skiscout (talk) 17:11, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

Most wins in World Championships and Winter Olympics
I would like to point out that there are only those Winter Olympics do count when Olympic medals were awarded (in 1948 there was awarded as well Olympic as World Championships medals, therefore both medals are included (and the list of most successful racers and nations includes the Super-Combined too):

Female: Christl Cranz; Olympics: One gold; World Championships: 5 golds. Janica Kostelic: Olympics: Two gold; World Championships: 2 gold. Maria Höfl-Riesch: Olympics: Two gold; World Championships: One Gold. Marielle Goitschel: Championships: 3 gold.

Male: Kjetil André Aamodt: Olympics: One gold, one silver; World Championships: 3 gold, one silver, one bronze. Lasse Kjus: Olympics: One gold; World Championships: One gold, 3 silver. Ted Ligety: Olympics: One gold; World Championships: One gold. Marc Girardelli: World Championships: 3 gold, one bronze. Aksel Lund Svindal: World Championships: 2 gold, 1 silver. Emile Allais: 2 gold; Jean-Claude Killy 2 gold; Toni Sailer: 2 gold; Anton Seelos: 2 gold; Gustavo Thöni 2 gold. 213.225.8.19 (talk) 18:47, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

Nations: Female:

Olympics: Germany 4, Austria 3, Croatia 2.

World Championships: Germany 9, Switzerland 8, Austria 7, France 5, Sweden 3.

Male: Olympics: Austria 2, Norway 2, United States 2.

World Championships Austria 9, France 7, Norway 6, Switzerland 5, United States 4, Luxembourg 3.

World Junior Alpine Skiing Championships
In the World Junior Alpine Skiing Championships method of scoring with points (Three-Run-Combination) is remaining (cit. the German Wikipedia). 213.225.8.19 (talk) 18:56, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

Another notes in regard to the Super Combined (Order of Start)
Dear Sir, I would like to cit. the German Wikipedia (but also I do it know by myself): I would like to point out that, in general, the Downhill Race (ore maybe the Super-G) is the first portion of the Super Combined (it was on the first time when in the season 2015/16, due to bat weather condition, as well a male as a female Event in the World Cup did start with the Slalom Race). Maybe that several Slalom Races are carried out as a "Nigth race" (as well in the World Cup as Olympics or World Championships, and also Order of Start is guilty in that manner). Order of start is like in a Special Slalom (or Giant Slalom): The thirtieth will begin, the first of the race is to start as the 30th – and (in contrast to the Special Slalom with, in general, the „cut“) when the 30th racer had finished, the 31st-placed is the next, followed by the 32nd-placed until to the last placed racer. If one of those racers - who had finished in the first 30 places - did announce that he wouldn't start the second portion, the 31st-placed racer was allowed to move forwards (and to start as the first in the 2nd portion); it happened that a few number of racer were ambitious (at first such ones who were only specializing in the Downhill) because knowing to be chanceless in the Slalom. Some of them did only take advantage of having an additional training race. But there also were tactically finesses by Team Officials when taking back a not good ranked racer in order to help a good slalom racer to move forwards. It was on January 14th, 2007, when Mario Matt (only placed 34th) did move forwards because four racers (not all from Austria) did quit. Matt could take advantage and win the Super Combined Event (in the World Cup it was on the first and only time that such did happen). After that moment, regulations did change: Always, the last placed in the top thirty of the first portion had to begin the start, and after the best ranked racer of that top thirty did finish, racers behind the top thirty could continue. - In the male Super Combined at the World Championships 2015, Marcel Hirscher did finish as thirtyfirst – but he was allowed to start as the first in the slalom race. It was a „debatable edge case“, because Ondřej Bank who was ranked thirtieth, has been disqualified (missing the last gate in the downhill race). Likewise Mario Matt, Hirscher could achieve the win. Skiscout (talk) 11:52, 5 January 2017 (UTC)