Talk:Alton Towers/Archive 1

fireworks
The firworks section stated that the courts refused permission for alton towers to have any fireworks displays, this is not true it just limited them to three shows of 20 minutes a year.

2 water rides?
It says in the box on the right that there are 2 water rides, however I would suggest that there are 3: the log flume, the river rapids and the ripsaw (which squirts the riders as they tumble around and people do come off it pretty drenched)... anyone disagree? 16th Nov 2006


 * I disagree. I think that in order to be a water ride, the ride vehicle needs to run on water (as in the case of the Flume and the rapids). You could argue that you come off Nemesis drenched if it was heavily raining, yet that isn't a water ride. Although Ripsaw does feature water, so do many 4D cinemas, but due to the water being only an added feature, they are not water rides. Chocology 12:02, 12 January 2007 (UTC)


 * There are three water rides. Riverbank Eye-Spy, The Flume and Congo River Rapids. One Night In Hackney 21:39, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I always Think of ripsaw as a water ride but chocology is right- curttrfc


 * If you consider a ride a water ride if it runs on water, does that not include Charlie and the Chocolate Factory as well? 86.27.131.220 18:54, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

the towers / scary history
before i visited disney world last year, alton towers had been the greatest theme park i had ever visited, when i was peritcullarly intrested in it i saw a program about it's history and the surrounding area post-year 2000 it contained information on the new atraction being built within the towers HEX, it gave the impression that the story line involved with the ride was actually true and that there is a massive tree somewhere entirely chained up. i was wonderring if anyone has any information on this as it interrests me greatly? the ride is such an unique feature of the park.
 * There is a tree that the legend is based on but its location isn't publicised to protect it from visitors. --Fozi999 12:14, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
 * i have kind of answered my own question here after posting went on a long forum search for an answer bbc page on the subject thanks to whoever edited this page im still getting the hang of wiki. --Jamie-planetx

Rita - Queen of Speed
"Rita - Queen of Speed claims to reach 100 kilometres per hour within a few seconds of launch" - whoever wrote this... is there any particular reason why it doesn't just reach 100kph? If it's an Alton Towers statistic I would assume it's true.

Also, has there really not been any talk on this article yet? Weird... --BigBlueFish 20:45, 3 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I think the reason it's been written like that is because the launch speed and acceleration differs between every launch and 100kph is not reached each time. I'm not sure whether 100kph is a theoretical maximum or whether the launch inaccuracy allows it to exceed this speed.  However, I don't think this is really relevant to this article and a simple statement of "it reaches 100kph in about 2.5 seconds" would probably be better. --Fozi999 11:50, 4 October 2005 (UTC)


 * At first I assumed that it would be the same each time, on the basis that it just goes round the same track with the same forces on it, but I guess different riders give the train different masses. As you say though, it's not really relevant. --BigBlueFish 15:37, 4 October 2005 (UTC)


 * The launch speed is very accurate - the computer controlling the winch that pulls the train along can adjust the speed whilst the ride is in-mid launch. So, if the computer realises halfway down the launch track that the train is not on target to hit 100km/h, it speeds up the winch slightly. You can see a photo of the computer in action here. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.210.54.112 (talk • contribs) 02:44, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Expanded History
In my last year at school we studied alton towers in Business studies and we had to write up a history, the one i did was quite detailed so i'll add it to the article. I'll put it here first so that people can make changes to it before i add, some bits are of course written in a way not to educate but tell, as coursework and articles are different. I believe that the bulk of the info is very useful. -- Ch ild zy talkcontribs 20:29, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

History of Alton Towers

The history of Alton towers dates back to the 8th century when the towers were first built. The fortress was owned by Ceolred, king of the Mercian empire. Then in the 1100’s the land and fortress were given to Bertram de Verdun, a crusader who received the land for his fighting. Eventually, the estate was owned by the French Talbot family. The first Earl of Shrewsbury, John Talbot, fought alongside Henry V for much of his life, and the family were always close to the hearts of the rulers of the country. The fortress now became a house and was called Alveton Lodge and was the summer residence of the Talbot's. Now Charles (the 15th Earl) inherited the house and began to take more interest in the house and began to expand. He also wanted to further develop the gardens. Work began in 1800, and continued until 1852. One of his biggest wishes was to develop the dry valley into one of the finest gardens in Britain, and he did. Over 5,000 conifers and 8,000 other trees were planted in the grounds and many lakes and pools, dug by hand, were made from water diverted from the spring at Ramsor. In 1811 the name of the site changed again, into Alton abbey, even though there were no characteristics present to give it an abbey status.

In 1827, Charles died and his nephew John inherited the land. He also shared his vision for the estate, and took over his work. A monument was erected to Charles in the gardens, with the words 'He Made the Desert Smile'. Then in 1837, the Shrewsbury's main residence in Heythrop burned to the ground and everything that was recovered, was moved to newly renamed (again) Alton Towers. The towers were now extremely valuable. They had great works of art including paintings by artists like Raphael and Van Dyck. Further work was done on the house when Augustus Welby Northmore Pugin, began working for the Earl. Much of the house as it is seen today is the work of Pugin. He also continued the development of the garden.

The towers were now in serious trouble. It was 1852 and Earl John had just died; now the house was thrown into legal disputes with many of the family all fielding their own army of lawyers. In the end Henry Chetwynd Talbot, won the battle for the house, but in the process had built up an extremely large bill. He began selling many of the objects in the house to pay for these bills. Yet again in 1860 Earl Henry ran in to money troubles. This time he needed money to repair some parts of the house, this time he used a better strategy, he opened the house and gardens to the public. He organised fetes, illuminations and firework displays, as well as exhibitions of instruments of torture, and balloon festivals. In the early 1900's, he developed the Talbot motor car, which would soon become the first motor car to travel 100 miles in one hour. It was a great day out and this was the start of its turn into a theme park. Four years prior to the attractions the earl and his wife split and the earl strangely moved out leaving his wife in the towers and agreed to pay her an allowance, this he never did. The decline of the towers had begun…………

It was in 1918, that much of the Shrewsbury properties were sold, and ultimately, in 1924, the Alton Towers estate itself was sold to a group of local businessmen. Once again, an auction was held, and all the contents of the house were sold to the highest bidder. The park was kept open and some rooms were changed into cafes or restaurants and many shops were opened. Then in the Second World War the estate was requisitioned by the army to be used as an army training facility and during this time no repairs were carried, this just furthered the decline. It wasn't until 1951, that the Towers were returned to the Alton Towers Company, and due to the post-war shortage of metals such as copper and lead, the whole interior of the house was removed for sale. Then finally everything was abandoned with the exception of the Chapel, that housed a model railway, and the Armoury, that became a gift shop. Then the rise of Alton towers was about to begin.

In the 1970’s the towers were bought and the new owners began to build some attractions and restored parts of the house, and reinforced the floors and ceilings to allow public access. Then, in 1980, with John Broome in charge, things began to turn around for Alton Towers. He decided to turn the 500 acre site into a leisure park for the family. The park already had a few attractions, but he knew they needed something more. On land to the east of the Towers, he constructed the U.K.'s first double corkscrew roller coaster. Visitors came from every where and eventually the park was bought by Tussauds. This was one of the best things that happened to the park as now they had a wealthy company backing them and had almost unlimited funds. Then Tussauds was bought by the Charterhouse group in 1998. Ever since it was bought at least one new ride has been built every year. Then in 1996 a hotel was built as the experience had become so big that one day was not enough to see everything. Now the towers are still standing and are well maintained by the Tussauds group, who are still the registered owners.

The park has also greatly expanded the hotels, there are now two hotels. The oldest hotel is a themed one that has many different rooms including a chocolate room and a bubble room. The newest hotel is a indoor waster park as well called splash landings and is also situated near the site. There are as yet no plans to further extend the parks hotels.
 * If you have information to contribute then feel free to add it to the article. However, make sure that is written in a style appropriate for an encyclopedia (see WP:MoS) and remember that what you write needs to be referenced.  When referencing use the citation templates so that all the references are in the same format. --Fozi999 22:59, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

History of the Gardens
The final paragraph of this section, about garden gnomes makes absolutly no sense whatsoever. Plenty of people are ready to delete any alterations I make straight away but none seem able to make sense of the paragraph so it still makes naff-all sense. Instead of winging at me for 'vandalism', correct the paragraph or delete it. (I do not want to delete as I'm sure it makes perfect sense to somebody out there, although they may not be from this planet.) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.37.130.141 (talk • contribs).

I've removed the gnome paragraph because the wording "in punishment for which" was, sadly, unencylopedic. It was also an unsourced claim at odds with (also unsourced) claims in the gnome article, and I couldn't find any support for the Alton Towers claim through the, admittedly limited, wonder of google.-- Siobhan Hansa  14:49, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Air
Air was NOT the first flying coaster. In fact, it was not even the first flyer to be built in the UK. While it was the first of Bolliger & Mabillard's flying coasters, Vekoma already had their flying dutchman style coasters at that time.

Some would consider Skytrak the first flyer to be built in the UK (and the world, for that matter). However, it was not nearly as free as most flyers in that, rather than having your back to the car and strapped in, riders were lying on their stomachs on the car. In addition, it was closed within its first year. Few, therefore, would call it the "first flying coaster". Nearly every website I've seen claims that Vekoma invented the flyer with "Stealth" at Paramount's Great America.

Alton Towers never claimed that AIR was the first ever flying coaster, just that it was a "New Generation Flying Coaster" which is certainly true due to the loading mechanism and smoothness of it. GameOn1988 04:25, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Islam Day
I updated the controversy section when I noticed that the Spectator Article used as a source for press criticism didn't actually say anything about the Islam day being politically correct. Liddle didn't use the term Political correct, he gave a semi-reasoned opinion piece criticizing the idea that one group of people would need a day when others wouldn't be there in order to enjoy the facility. I don't think I captured it that well (and I'm not sure it was such a great piece of journalism in the first place...) but I tried to better reflect the actual content. If there are press pieces critizing Islam day as being politically correct, we could revert and cite those sources instead. -- Siobhan Hansa  13:34, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Gardens
The history of the gardens is unsourced at present. According to Amazon there is a book from 1953: Alton Towers, Staffordshire: The rose gardens of England ISBN 1902368061 that seems to be out of print at the moment. I;m in the US and doubt I'll find it in a library here. Could someone else look for it and see if we can develop this section? Seems like the sort of info that it would be great to make available in an encyclopedia on the internet. -- Siobhan Hansa 23:00, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

External links about noise issues in "See also" section
These: - 	Stephen & Suzanne Roper sue Alton Towers over noise levels - 	Ropers sucessfully sue over Theme Park noise levels but may have scored an own goal as the ruling also affects the Churchill China factory in Tunstall High Street, of which Mr Roper is chairman. Were in the see also section. which seemed inappropriate. I suspect there's been quite a lot of tension between local residents and the park. These could be the start of a section on how Alton Towers gets on in the local community. At the moment though it's a couple of links about one local court case and seems a bit trivial to include. -- Siobhan Hansa 19:55, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Third Water Ride
There are three water rides at Alton Towers that run entirely on water, and are in operable without set water. They are The Flume, The Conga Rapids and the Jet Boats (on the lake; they're in even the picture). You can go on the ride, it is a mechanical and lots of people go on them - what objections could be had because it sounds like water ride to me.

I object as you have not signed this post and should have contributed to the earlier discussion.--Lucy-marie 20:18, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I object to your comment as it is incivil and borderline trolling. Please see WP:CIVIL and WP:TROLL.  One Night In Hackney 20:22, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


 * i have had serious issues with you befroe i object to your attacks on me. How the hell am i meant to know who signed that comment? Cant you just you just leran to live with the fact that i make edits to pages aswell and contribute a diffrent viewpoint to you? Also i have made no attacks on anybody as i do not know who signed the comment.--Lucy-marie 13:47, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Controversy
There are some issues with this section.
 * Nudists day. As far as I am aware, there has never been a nudists day at Alton Towers. The world record attempt was carried out prior to the normal opening hours of the park. The park was subsiquently opened to the public when the record was completed
 * Neither the nude record attempt nor the Gay days are controvertial. A controversy requires that there is despute over the suitablility of an event of this type at Alton Towers. Without a citation of this controversy, I would suggest that these items are moved to a different section. Maybe a Trivia section is required as these events are not core to the Alton Towers business.
 * I would suggest that the content about the noise abatement, Ropers and the fireworks display is moved to the controversy section as it seems to logicaly fit under this heading.

I will await coments before making any changes Munta 13:57, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

I also think there is a significant issue with this section, regarding the Islam day. Contrary to the opinion of certain elements of the tabloid press and their readership, Alton Towers is a privately owned theme park who are free to hire out the park to any group they choose regardless of their religion. Had they chosen to hire out the entire theme park to say a group composed entirely of dentists who chose to exclude all other members of the public, it is safe to say the adverse publicity created would be practically nil. One Night In Hackney 11:13, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes - I would agree with that comment. It is certainly true that there was some media histeria over this event and it is important that both views get an airing. Do you know of any sources for the alternate view. Munta 12:08, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm definitely aware of a rebuttal made by the organisers of the day in question, I'll try and track it down. One Night In Hackney 12:13, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I've found this and this  that support the accusation that only a fuss was made over the Muslim day —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Munta (talk • contribs) 12:24, 7 February 2007 (UTC).


 * There's a Sun article about it as well. That's actually slightly more balanced than you would expect, as it does explain the position of the organisers and includes a quote from Alton Towers stating any group can hire the park.  Surprisingly The Guardian kept quiet about all this, although they do have a source for the cancellation we can use.  There was also a previous controversy about Muslims at Alton Towers, but I'm not sure about including it. One Night In Hackney 12:42, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

ASBO
A couple of years ago i think ALton towers was given an ASBO due to breeching noise orders and sustained compliants of noise pollution, light pollution and litter pollution in the local village. It can be veiwed here ,, .--Lucy-marie 20:32, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

How can this beincorporated into the article?--Lucy-marie 11:18, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Alton Towers have never been given an ASBO, they lost a court case and a Noise Abatement Order was issued against the company. --Tiger20001

Needs an over-haul
There are a few glaring omissions and some language that I don't like the look of. I'm also questioning the neutrality of a couple of bits. Going through it now. I worked there for a number of years. camelworks 18:26, 22 February 2007 (UTC)


 * "It was rumoured that Runaway Mine train would receive a retheme for 2007, which may have included a karaoke style theme with speakers and microphones for riders to sing along. In early December the park management announced that this re-theme would not take place." Took this out because a rumour that has since been disproved or is correct but isn't going to happen doesn't belong in an encyclopaedia in my opinion. Facts! camelworks 18:33, 22 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Okay I've done enough for one evening. Still a lot of work to I think, I noticed quite a bit of info is repeated. I'll have a crack at re-organising and finishing up what I started. Please let me know what you think of the relatively minor changes so far. camelworks 20:16, 22 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Finished. Please leave any comments on the changes made. Removed a lot of redundant and repeated information, and moved a lot of things around into different order, so please read whole article before complaining. Changed a lot of the wording too. Thanks! camelworks 19:39, 2 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Looks great. One small point though. I still think that the "nudist day" should be removed and the reference is only to the nude record. I have never seen any evidence that they held a "nude day" - in fact, there wouldn't be enough nudists in the country to make a nude day profitable - and where would they hold their change for the stalls ;) Munta 01:23, 3 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree, I left it in because I wasn't sure. I remember the nude world record, it happened after the park closed one evening, there wasn't anyone about during the day with the public.camelworks 09:56, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Seperate ride articles
There are a number of ride articles linked, which are all very short. Whilst I don't think the minute ride details in these articles belong in Alton Towers may I suggest that
 * Nemesis (roller coaster)
 * Oblivion (roller coaster)
 * Corkscrew (Alton Towers)
 * Air (roller coaster)
 * Rita - Queen of Speed
 * Runaway Mine Train (Alton Towers)
 * Congo River Rapids
 * Beastie (roller coaster)
 * Spinball Whizzer

be merged into a new article with re-directs set up, i.e. Notable Rides at Alton Towers, and suitable links set up in the main article? Beastie especially does not seem worthy of its own article. Air also needs a decent cleanup, which I will have a crack at later either way people agree to my merge suggestion. camelworks 16:14, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Nuts to it actually, there's already a category for the rides.  camelworks (Mclowes) 17:50, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Current Projects
I am removing;
 * "The only project is the Spider-man 3 ride which is soon to be made into production and preview launches in October 2007 The ride is predicted to be open by november. This turn of events would encurage vistors to come in the winter as more promotional material for the winter events. The origonal plan was for the ride to be lauched for visitors of the park to use by may 4th - when the film was released. The offers announced were going to include a deal whereas if you bought a fast-track pass for the spider-man 3 ride, you would then get a free cinema ticket to see the film in cinemas with ODEON cinema. This deal would have to be canceled if the film would not be in cinemas for 28 days or more whilst the ride bieng open. Obiosly this deal has come to certain conclusions as thus the ride not being open or even built. The name of the ride is yet to be decided. There have many visitors of the park calling and asking about this new spider-man 3 ride for school projects. Thus ferther advertisement for the ride by word of mouth."

Due to its unsourced comments and is very poorly written. If someone can confirm the passge, please rewrite it. Sheeldz 22:36, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Flying Coaster
Air is indeed the first flying rollercoaster in the world. A Flying Dutchman is exaclty that, a flying dutchman flying rollercoaster, with Air being the first true to prone coaster. I don't know if you agree, but it is publiscised as such, and is generally regarded as being the first flying type coaster. Sheeldz 12:18, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Most haunted
Why is most haunted mentioned in the paranormal section, it is fairly widely known to have been falsified now? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.171.111.194 (talk) 14:52 18th July 2007

Courtyard Tavern (the park's only pub).
I was at Alton Towers today, and the Courtyard Tavern is definitely not the only pub at Alton Towers. There is a bar near Rita and a pub on Towers Street, and probably some others I didn't see. So, I'm going to alter the Merrie England sextion to reflect this. Hope there are no objections. --Stanleytheman 20:56, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
 * As the saying goes, Be bold ;) The Islander 20:59, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

I have been bold (ish) ! --Stanleytheman 21:13, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

New Development
The "New Development" section is appallingly written. No sources are cited - an important part of this sort of section - in fact it seems like mostly guesswork. Details are given in a vague way, and there is a strong over use of non-cited abbreviations. Not to mention the writer seems to have forgotten of the existence of the definite article. Somebody that knows more on the subject should re-write this section more clearly. Rant over. --Icecold.trashcan 02:31, 22 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Agreed - one over-keen Tussauds emplyee seems to have jumped on and written this piece for Alton Towers and Thorpe Park - I reverted it on Thorpe Park, so it might as well be reverted here too. The Islander 09:22, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

towers times
i added towers times to external links. it is a very good site about alton towers that i am surprised was not already there--Hugarh (talk) 14:01, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Towers Times is a Fansite, and as such should not be included in the external links.