Talk:Alvis Saracen

Dates and figures, please?
This article is very short on dates, particularly, when was each type introduced?Also, lead (and infobox) does not suggest for how long they were in service. How many of each type built?

Any idea how many have been preserved? ...in working order?

EdJogg (talk) 23:36, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

G20 Protest Vehicle (01 Apr 2009)
Found some pics on the BBC News site, which is incorrectly calling it a "tank": EdJogg (talk) 14:53, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Side view
 * Surrounded by police
 * The BBC is reasonable in calling it "a tank", given that's how the spacehighjackers have consistently referred to it. For once it's not simple journalistic ignorance. Andy Dingley (talk) 15:33, 1 April 2009 (UTC)


 * No, ignorance on my part...fair cop! Hadn't followed that link before.
 * It's worth mentioning the discrepancy in due course (assuming the section remains here). Thanks for pointing it out.
 * Nevertheless, I reckon they've done a good job with it -- looks very smart.
 * EdJogg (talk) 16:18, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The BBC seem to have switched to calling it an "armoured car" now. Haven't had a chance to check the Daily Wail yet, but that ought to be suitably outraged. Andy Dingley (talk) 16:28, 1 April 2009 (UTC)


 * The story has been syndicated (search for ' "armoured car" G20' will retrieve numerous identical hits), but there are few details. The Saracen (reg 523XUG) was bought from eBay for £5000 (in 2007?) (see First use of Saracen by Spacehijackers - Timeout London (Sept 19-25, 2007)) and other pages on the Spacejackers site describe how they've since used it as a publicity vehicle, not without a few mechanical problems. (NB Some of the pages include interior views and close-ups.)
 * EdJogg (talk) 16:17, 2 April 2009 (UTC) (no affiliation to protest group - merely interested in the "tank"!)


 * The 'tank' description was why the Saracen was used in NI during The Troubles rather than the then-current FV432. The Saracen was obsolete at the time but the Government thought that using the FV432 would have all the news media referring to 'tanks on the streets', etc., so the Army were only allowed to use wheeled-vehicles such as the Saracen and the Humber Pig.


 * It seems that nowadays the media can't tell the difference anyway. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.40.251.230 (talk) 20:41, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

And now up for sale Gordo (talk) 19:03, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Hull
"At times they even appeared on the streets of Hull, a less-hostile atmosphere for driver training in a city of similar appearance to Belfast." - Utter garbage. The Army driver training school is at Leconfield, near Hull, that's why you can see them in Hull. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.159.216.97 (talk) 09:01, 5 March 2011 (UTC)


 * The facts are not incompatible, but might be better worded, something like: "As the Army driver training school (Defence School of Transport) is at Leconfield, the nearby city of Hull was used to provide an urban training environment similar to Belfast." -- EdJogg (talk) 10:12, 5 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Although the proximity of Beverley was certainly part of it, Hull (and specifically Anlaby) in the early '80s was a location for CQB training. Lots of slums in the process of clearance, a similar appearance to Belfast, and no-one too upset if the odd wall was demolished. The good burghers of Beverley would get a bit stroppy if you broke bits off the Minster. Andy Dingley (talk) 11:27, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Armour Upgrades
The Mk 5 and 6 vehicles had their armour upgraded prior to the start of the troubles, and in fact, all of the Mk 6 vehicles present in NI were diverted from a middle eastern order that the British government cancelled. They were originally painted in sand/tan and had to be repainted for use in NI by the receiving units.

The Saracens were used, rather than their tracked replacement, the FV432, as they were seen as a less aggressive vehicle due to having wheels. This was also the reason that the Pig was pressed into service - the British government didn't want reports of tanks in the streets, although it turns out that most reporters can't tell the difference anyway.

Service records indicate that my Mk 5 Saracen (82 BA 88) was still in service in Hong Kong until at least 1992.

Saracens in Hong Kong were all replaced by Saxons in 1988. One was retained and is on a plinth outside the Police Tactical Unit, Fanling ijs-2016   — Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.78.31.177 (talk) 04:50, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

Due to their very long service lives (up to 40 years or so), and varied fields of operation, there is also a huge number of EMERs (modifications), which may or may not be fitted to certain vehicles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.45.98.15 (talk) 12:19, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

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