Talk:Ambient house

ELectronic dance?
How are the terms "dance" and "ambient" at all compatible? Mr. Cat 18:40, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

They aren't. I guess these editors are just actors. Brian Wilson 16:50, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

How the hell can someone say there's no beats then include Juno Reactor (which I'd probably consider trance)? For that matter, many of The Orb's tunes have strong beats. This article needs major work, unfortunately I'm not expert enough to do so. 68.225.88.31 16:10, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

The Orb have always been considered ambient house pioneers, they do have strong beats, but that is fine since this is ambient house. Just check their allmusic.com entry to verify their ambient house status Res0nat0r 01:57, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
 * A great number of Juno Reactor tracks are not in any way ambient. Do you have some track suggestions for me to listen to?  I'm trying to interpret "ambient house" in such a way that it doesn't sound like an oxymoron.  - BalthCat 03:27, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I would agree, I don't think that Juno Reactor should be on this list. As for listening suggestions I would check out "Earth (Gaia)" and "Supernova at the End of the Universe" from Adventures Beyond the Ultraworld, and the entire 76:14 album from Global Communication. Res0nat0r 17:57, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

What is the difference between ambient house and ambient techno, if any? Anyway some entries here should be delisted, such as Sueno latino: they were an italian act that produced only one (eponimous) hit, I remember when we danced at its rhythm here in Europe, a very interesting production based on some Ashra music (mainly sequencing "riffs"), anyway there were no ambience sounds and no trance atmospheres.--Doktor Who 22:30, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I personally would say that Aphex's Selected Ambient Works and Polygon Window are ambient techno. I'm probably wrong. --kingboyk 16:41, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

RDJ
Corrected omission of Aphex Twin - although some have a tendency to ascribe godlike powers of invention to this individual, it seems an unfair omission of 2 major works which directly relate to the efforts of messrs Cauty, Patterson et al. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.133.192.196 (talk) 00:17, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Selected Ambient Works is a terrific album, but as its article states, it's ambient techno, not ambient house. I'm happy to be proven wrong with references (more than one). --kingboyk (talk) 00:14, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

New stuff I've done

 * I added in a bunch of stuff, mainly regarding The Orb. I'll fill in the Grove music citation as well as look into adding stuff about other artists later tonight.  Wickethewok 21:37, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Chill Out
"Out of the same sessions, came Cauty's KLF album Chill Out."

I've tagged this with fact, which doesn't mean I dispute it, rather that a lot of the early KLF/Orb history is rumour and innuendo, and to get the facts and chronology sorted out I'd like to see a citation.

First of all, we don't say which sessions exactly. Do we perhaps mean "scene" or "activity" rather than sessions? (But see quote from the Chill Out article below, which puts the point across in an easier to understand way albeit without citation).

AFAIK, Chill Out was recorded live by Cauty & Drummond at Trancentral, possibly using some tapes Cauty shared with or got from The Orb. That's the party line anyway. Drummond: "'Chill Out' was a live album that took two days to put together from bits and pieces. It was like jamming with bits from LPs and stuff we had lying around. We'd run around having to put an album on here, a cassette on there, and then press something else to get a flow."

Chill Out (KLF album) says: "Essentially Chill Out is a "best of" of many hours of collaborative ambient DJ jam sessions that also involved Alex Paterson of The Orb." However, this isn't cited.

It's quite possible that some of Paterson's tapes were used, or even that Alex was there, but we need to get this straightened out and sourced.

I am aware by the way of the supposed Orb remix of Chill Out (and have it), but I don't know the first thing about the origins or veracity of this piece. (Sounds like Orb, but where it's from only a reliable source can say). --kingboyk 13:58, 6 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Ah, I misinterpreted a phrase in the Ambient Century book. I believe it is referring to the Trancentral sessions as the one where Chill Out came from, not the Peel sessions.  I have fixed this in the article.  Wickethewok 15:01, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
 * So that book claims that Paterson was involved with the recording of Chill Out but got no credit? (which may well be true for all I know!) Anyway, if that's what it claims, we have to respect NPOV and put something of a disclaimer on it, perhaps referencing that Record Collector piece (have a read of that, besides being a good read - and pretty much the article that got me into the band :) - I may have missed something).** --kingboyk 16:21, 6 October 2006 (UTC) **By which I mean, Cauty and Drummond claim it as entirely their work, unless I've missed something; if a book says otherwise we should report that it's controversial. If the book doesn't say that you need to redit, cos the current impression is that Alex worked on Chill Out and got ripped off :)
 * I don't know if the book meant to imply Paterson was "ripped off". Here is what the book has written verbatim:

"The year 1990 began with the release of The KLF's Ambient manifesto, Chill Out. Coming direct from the same Trancentral sessions that had produced 'Loving You', Chill Out featured no credit to Paterson and soon after its release Jimmy Cauty split from The Orb. Work in progress ended up as the Cauty solo project Space (KLF 1990) and Paterson carried on with the help of Youth." - pg. 408 from "THE ORB AND AMBIENT HOUSE" section of the text

I'll edit the article to quote the source directly on the "featured no credit to Paterson" line. Thoughts? Wickethewok 16:41, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I think that's vague... it maybe also got Chill Out mixed up with Space (otherwise it's weird that he says "Paterson got no credit for Chill Out" but doesn't say "Paterson got no credit for Space". (And, also, if this is true why doesn't he say "Drummond got no credit for Loving You?). (Although he does say "Work in progress ended up as...Space".) Hmm.


 * We have to go with the published sources, of course, but the published sources have always indicated to me that Chill Out was a KLF album, and Space was an Orb album from which Jimmy did or did not remove Alex's contributions. I've never seen in any published source until now a claim that Alex was involved in Chill Out, although I've seen such claims on the (not reliable in this sense) KLF mailing list. Leave it with me and I'll think about it/perhaps tweak/perhaps add a qualifying note. --kingboyk 16:47, 6 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Hey I was just browsing through some Orb material and found this in this book:

"After appearing uncredited on the KLF's Chill Out, Paterson collaborated with Jimmy Cauty on 'A Huge Ever Growing Brain.' - Reynolds, pg 191"

Wickethewok 20:52, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Bah! 2 sources = you win ;) I'll add those to Chill Out some time too then. Good research! --kingboyk 20:55, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Discussion continued at Talk:List_of_The_KLF%27s_creative_associates. --kingboyk (talk) 21:58, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

Audio clips

 * I'm adding in a clip of AHEGPB, as its a major work in this field. Also, I added in a clip of some work I did as another example of ambient house.  Wickethewok 07:14, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

FFWD
The collaborative album featuring Fripp, Fehlmann, Weston and Dr paterson is not Ambient house, it is "pure" ambient, so it should be not listed here. --Doktor Who 02:27, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm inclined to agree, not much "house" much more ambient. Wickethewok 02:58, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, there is no beat, so, it is pure ambient music featuring interesting and sometimes beautyful avantgarde experiments; anw, since early 1990s, both Ambient Techno and Ambient House were regarded also as a Music scene, so this article refers both to the music genre and the music scene; also I read on "Q" magazine that many bands/DJs self addressed as belonging to the "ambient movement" . So FFWD could be left here. --Doktor Who 03:11, 12:10, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
 * As it is now, the article deals with the ambient house as a genre, that is in my opinion a non-sense according to musicology methods, it does not currently refer to the house and techno "ambient" scene, so I deleted the link.Doktor Who 10:26, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Art of Noise
No mention of this group.. One of its conemporaries is Cabaret Voltaire - often considered to have 'developed' the house sound parallelling what happened in NY/Chicago etc. The Art of Noises' Ambient Collection (1990) I consider to be Ambient house. Any comments on this? Cheers -- maxrspct  ping me  16:18, 23 October 2007 (UTC) I decided against it... The 'Ambient Collection' is closer to Ambient dub, along with The Orb. another example ->
 * I don't really know much about the group, but if you have a reliable source calling them ambient house, I say go for it. Wickethewok 04:01, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

"The resonant sounds of Ambient Dub merge New Age psychedelia with Dub Reggae elements and ideals. Artists like Higher Intelligence Agency, Woob and Original Rockers create a tranquil sense of timelessness through the use of low frequency echo and reverb, radiant synth pulses and earthy rhythms. A feminine-identified form, Ambient Dub attempts to carve out an aural womb for the headphone listener." -- maxrspct  ping me  21:27, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

"Other Ambient Genres"
What is the point of this section? This would seem to be more appropriate for the ambient music article, as these genres don't have to do directly with "ambient house". If they are in fact relevant, it should be discussed how they are relevant with prose. Opinions? Wickethewok 00:07, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Good, I agree with you and will zap the section now.
 * I put a "cleanup" tag on the history section simply because somebody has introduced an alternate (quite believable) early history; somebody with better knowledge (i.e. you Mr Wok) needs to verify the info and merge the 2 accounts (para 1, and our old stuff starting with Orb/KLF) into one... --kingboyk 00:00, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

KLF's Chill Out
We need a source which claims this album contains ambient house tracks. The article states that ambient house includes four-on-the-floor beat patterns. When I play this album I hear a bunch of ambient music with the exception of one track towards the end. Few of the major claims made about this genre are substantiated by reliable sources. I've never identified an ambient house track because of the inherent contradiction that fuses a beat-less genre with another marked by dance rhythms. That is probably why there is no ambient house style at discogs. - Shiftchange (talk) 23:57, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Agreed that this is/was a rather bad article, but I am adding a few references to it now. "Ambient house" is a recognised genre at AllMusic and is well covered in their Orb biography (https://www.allmusic.com/artist/mn0000891575/biography) and plenty of other sources but that one should get you sorted.
 * Any statement in this article which is unreferenced and which undermines the assertion that Chill Out is ambient house should be removed as it is well documented that Chill Out is an ambient house, and some one would say the definitive ambient house album. Sources available online include: https://www.allmusic.com/album/mw0000092678 https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/the-klf-chill-out/ https://web.archive.org/web/20160916120306/http://www.libraryofmu.net/display-resource.php?id=226 https://web.archive.org/web/20170622111126/http://www.stylusmagazine.com/articles/on_second_thought/the-klf-chill-out.htm http://trouserpress.com/entry.php?a=klf (I'll stop there or I could be pasting links in all day :)) Every one of these articles about or referencing Chill Out contains the phrase "ambient house".
 * I will attempt to attend to this with a copyedit now, but I suspect the article will still need additional citations when I am done as I have a shit-ton of articles to update and real world work to do. --kingboyk (talk) 00:11, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
 * "four-on-the-floor beats" was misquoted in the lead. It came from AllMusic and formed part of a section on the "more rigorous application of the term" in a wider article which lists the key protagonists as "the Orb, the KLF, Irresistible Force, Future Sound of London, and Orbital". Good catch, thank you. I am working on it. --kingboyk (talk) 00:20, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

✅ The best I can for now, with the sources and time I have available right now. I've copyedited what's there, cleared up the confusion about four-to-the-floor beats, and added citations about Chill Out being - according to the published sources - a key record in the ambient house canon.

The article should probably cover Irresistible Force more (good luck finding other sources saying FSOL or Orbital were ambient house, but if they exist that should be covered too). Covering future developments is debatable because as AllMusic explained, "ambient" quickly splintered into a multitude of subgenres (such as Aphex Twin's brilliant ambient techno) and ambient house got forgotten but, again, if reliable sources are there, go for it.

I would like to ask that if anyone comes up with more info from reliable sources about The Land of Oz, please also add to (and correct if necessary) the prose in Heaven (nightclub). --kingboyk (talk) 02:35, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

YMO influence on The Orb
In his wikipedia page literally says "Beginning as ambient and dub DJs in London, The Orb's early performances were inspired by electronic artists of the 1970s, most notably Brian Eno, Cluster, and Kraftwerk". Kraftwerk is ignored when he literally used a sample of one of his songs in his first album while none of YMO. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mirad1000 (talk • contribs) 02:47, 16 June 2022 (UTC)