Talk:Amelia Bence

Towards GA

 * You're in a much better position than me, you at least understand film. I translated it and confirmed that there were sources. I know nothing about film (I don't even own a TV), or acting. I have very little access to books, as most things I can open you cannot and vice verse. Very little ever comes up when I google search under books for actors or film titles and rarely for anything I can open. But, here's what I can source on the awards:

Argentine Academy of Cinematography Arts and Sciences:
 * 1) 1943 Todo un hombre
 * 2) 1947 A sangre fría
 * 3) 1949 Danza del fuego

Association of Film Critics: SILVER CONDOR
 * 1) from her book pp 97-99  Lauracha 1948?
 * 2) from her book pp 338 Lifetime achievement award 1989

Writers Association award for Best Actress:
 * 1) from her book p 103 1947 A sangre fría (and the inaugural prize for the Hispanoamericano de Cinematografía in Madrid)
 * 2) from her book pp 111-113 1949 Danza del fuego

Argentina Film Academy:
 * 1) 1957 Alfonsina (and nominated at Berlin Film Fest)

US ACE: Association of Latin Entertainment Critics (ACE) award for Best Foreign Actress:
 * 1) from her book p 249 1972 La valija (The Suitcase) STAGE PERFORMANCE SusunW (talk) 01:05, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

So far (to late 30s) it really is an excellent account and does actually have some info on the nature of her roles and reviews. I've removed my above comments as in reading it I do see it does have what I thought was missing, but I'll still try to reinforce it with book sourcing for some films. I think we can do this.♦ Dr. Blofeld  10:06, 29 August 2015 (UTC) I love that new picture in the lede. Just tell me what you need me to try to find and I'll give it a shot. SusunW (talk) 14:12, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Can you convert the remaining references to sfn? All you have to do is add and move the book to sources cited in alpha order with a |ref=harv at the end of it.♦  Dr. Blofeld  14:14, 29 August 2015 (UTC) I can try. Never done that before, but it seems simple enough. SusunW (talk) 14:16, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

You can see what I've done so far here. It looks cleaner I think, if you could get into the habit of using it. For Bence use

♦ Dr. Blofeld  14:18, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Ridiculous! Completely and totally. More proof that Wiki has a preference for programmers over writers. Who expects a writer to do all this back and forth nonsense. I can't even remember what freaking page number the reference was supposed to be by the time I go to the bottom and back to the top. If this is the format they want, then they need to program that into a drop down form so that I can write and not jump all over the page. Truly, it is mind-boggling. I am doing it, but with each citation I become more and more frustrated with Wikipedia. Why is a programmer not working on this? It is total insanity to expect writers to do this. SusunW (talk) 14:36, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I am supposing that if there is a number it goes ahead of the alphabetized list. If this is not the case, then I need to know where to move it, but it should be programmed. I am ticked. Not just sort of. These are hours and hours of my life I will not get back doing mindless repetitiveness. My answer is no. I will not do this on a regular basis. If this is the preferred style, then it needs to become the focus of programmers to fix the citation drop downs. If they don't want to do that then it is not the preferred style. Something here stinks. You can pin a rose on it, but it won't smell better. SusunW (talk) 15:25, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I hope you can view what I'm saying here as a neutral party because I'm not trying to convince you to change this. If both of you are in agreement, I will change it to harv refs later tonight.  I didn't use this style of some time; after I learned how to do it, for me, it makes it much easier to write and cite what I'd written than scrambling to see if the text has the right ref with it.


 * As you know, Bentworth was recently changed to harv ref-it was the only way to try to straighten out the references for the article. After someone added an excess of non essential items to Red Skelton, it was the only way to straighten out what was done there.  I had intended to change the refs there to harv, but it became necessary to undo what had been done there.  I feel the hardest part of using harv ref is to convert everything to it in an article; when you become accustomed to using this style, I think you might be glad for the convenience when writing.  Not trying to talk you into anything but am just giving you my personal opinion of using the harv refs. :) We hope (talk) 15:44, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Aside from the automatic ref bunching it's cleaner to store the books alphabetically underneath and when you click the note it leads to the book and highlights it. If you've got a lot of sources rather than sifting back trying to find the original book source and what matches with what I think it actually makes editing easier. If it didn't I wouldn't do it!I also think it takes less time to draw up an sfn note than it does to create ref name tags and go through the article manually bunching them. I don't want to force you to do anything but long time I'm just trying to make things easier/cleaner for everybody!♦ Dr. Blofeld  15:57, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
 * It's not difficult to format as sfn|Bence|Etchelet|2011|pp=268-9 instead of ref "Bence & Etchelet (2011)", pp 268–269 ref now is it? How does that require extra hours of work? OK I'll sort it out here but in future if you could get into the habit of formatting like that it would make things a lot easier and cleaner when we come to promote and have the books neatly filed that's all! I know it seems really technical but it's really not, in fact it's easier than your system because you don't even need to add ref name tags to refs it'll bunch them automatically if it's the same page number. Believe me if it was more difficult I would not do it! I have coding on here in my preferences to maximise efficiency in editing. Don't worry about this now I'll do it, you'll feel happy writing!♦ Dr. Blofeld  15:48, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I will do it because I said I will. But I will not use this in the future. I do not collect a pile of books and review them before I write. I read sources as I go. I can either waste my time on inputting sources or I can produce content. And Dr. B, just because you prefer it, does not make it easier for me. I have memory issues (this is a very sensitive personal thing for me and I will not discuss it further) and this jumping up and down the page is completely distracting and frustrating for me. You want to do that, fine. I cannot and produce any reasonable content. If you want it to be the preferred style, get a programmer to make changes. If not, then don't expect its wide use. SusunW (talk) 16:07, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
 * If you have memory issues it's actually less to remember because you don't have to remember to ref name tag sources :-) It's not just me who prefers it, Rosiestep, Nvvchar and Ipigott all use it too, though Ipigott's initial reaction was similar to yours.♦ Dr. Blofeld  16:38, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
 * It is not stubbornness on my part. It is a limitation of what I am capable of. There is a difference. Your insistence does not make it so. SusunW (talk) 16:59, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Sfn isn't compulsory, some editors I respect don't like it. But the books at least look better neatly filed underneath rather than all among the notes either way.♦ Dr. Blofeld  17:03, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
 * it isn't a matter of liking it or not. It isn't a matter of "style". It is a matter of human limitations. Yes, it would be much easier to just be able to input the page numbers. In a perfect world, one would be able to input the book and then pull down a another template to insert a page number. That is not what we have. It requires multiple formatting styles, use of multiple templates, knowing where to obtain those templates, and if I am not mistaken, installing a separate program to tell you if you have any references pointing to books that aren't in the list (or at least someone wrote that on my talkpage). That is a lot to remember, and is rife with potential for errors. The technology is certainly capable of being programmed to do it. I am positive, that I am not the only person this effects. SusunW (talk) 17:42, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Well can you at least agree to place the books neatly underneath in future articles then, even if not using Sfn notes? It makes it look clearer and easier to follow but I suspect you'll disagree. ♦ Dr. Blofeld  17:57, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
 * For what it's worth... I LOVE sfn. It's the most orderly referencing style, it's the easiest to use because of this tool), and I somehow managed to download/install User:Ucucha/HarvErrors which does make Harv Errors blaringly red (easy to see). I don't like dealing with any other style for book refs, as everything else is clumsy in comparison. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I'm just talking out loud. Also, unless an article is a total reference mess, I LOVE doing reference cleanup. So if you're seeking an extra set of hands for this article or another to do a once over for refs, you can call on me. --Rosiestep (talk) 02:58, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

Overall article
I think the article is in very good shape now. I do think it is a little over reliant on her autobiography but given that's Argentina and we can't access many reviews online and there is a severe lack of biographical info in independent sources available for her I think it's fair enough. We've used a fair few other sources too. Over time I will try to see some more of her films which might put me in a better position to elaborate in places on some of her performances, but technically this looks decent IMO now for GA.♦ Dr. Blofeld  18:31, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Refs
From Cine-Mundial:


 * June 1944 pages 298-299
 * September 1944 page 453
 * October 1944 pages 508-509
 * December 1944 page 622
 * June 1943 page 256

We hope (talk) 15:06, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

From Motion Picture Herald:


 * 28 November 1942 page 46
 * 13 February 1943 page 59
 * 13 May 1943 page 46
 * 16 January 1943 page 28

We hope (talk) 15:13, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

From Variety:


 * 6 August 1947 page 12
 * 28 May 1941 page 18
 * 30 June 1948 page 16
 * 7 April 1948 page 62
 * 11 February 1948 page 26
 * 17 December 1947 page 17
 * October 1946 page 18
 * September 1946 page 18
 * 24 October 1945 page 21
 * 22 December 1943 page 55

We hope (talk) 15:26, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Cheers ♦ Dr. Blofeld  15:49, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

I did look at a few of the sources but they seems generally to only be a passing mention. What we really need is Argentine newspapers and magazines of the 1940s and 1950s!♦ Dr. Blofeld  18:26, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

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