Talk:America's Next Top Model season 12

Celia
Even though it is not really a challenge (or it might just have been cut), Celia did win a prize (the key and sharing her bed), that's why I colored her as a challenge winner, even if it seems she was picked at random.--Whadaheck (talk) 18:32, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * But it wasn't a challenge the way the shows define it. She just happened to be standing there with her hand out.  ...  disco spinster   talk  19:14, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree with discospinster on this one. celia didn't win the key she was just given the key. It doesn't count. -Misty Willows (talk) 19:24, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 32.173.168.129 (talk) 07:23, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

But in the recap episode, it showed that she actually did win this game that they played where they tried to find different sights in NYC. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.6.209.4 (talk) 23:20, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Fo, Natalie, London, Tahlia
Fo is shown nervous throughout especially in front of judge/photographer Nigel Barker. Natalie's photos from her last photoshoot has been discarded ? Did London really gain weight ? Did Tahlia showed the desire to quit ?

Guest Judge
Judging Panel, For the first time in all the history of America's Next Top Model, they did not have a guest judge, on the first week.... In past Cycles they have only the original judges and no guest judge in the finale, exeption of Jay Manuel in Cycle 7, But I think they should put that in the first week because, this had never happened before, does that mean that the guest judge is out and only Paolina, Nigel,  J, and Tyra will chose who is eliminated????

International destination
Does São Paulo, Brazil will add to the article? ApprenticeFan (talk) 02:57, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * If you can find a legitimate source, then yes. If not, then no.  Wikipedia doesn't necessarily need to be the first one to report things, but it does have to report them accurately. SKS2K6 (talk) 03:24, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * No. it is from http://honestlyantm12.wordpress.com/, Even though is not considered as a reliable source. ApprenticeFan (talk) 07:03, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Tagline
The tagline for this cycle "Get In The Fold" will add in the article? ApprenticeFan (talk) 03:05, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Again, same response as above: if you can find a legitimate source, then yes. If not, then no.  Wikipedia doesn't necessarily need to be the first one to report things, but it does have to report them accurately. SKS2K6 (talk) 03:24, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Same as above. No. it is from it is from http://honestlyantm12.wordpress.com/, Even though is not considered as a reliable source. Which the promo is included in that link. ApprenticeFan (talk) 07:03, 29 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Answer to both: it's your call. Honestly, I would hold off on the international destination until it's legitimately confirmed, though.  The tagline...whatever. SKS2K6 (talk) 15:24, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Last names...
I'm not removing or tagging sources because I want to be annoying, but sources have to follow Wikipedia guidlines on sourcing. Blogs are not sources. Fansites aren't sources. Also, because of the nature of this information (biographical), it should follow Wikipedia's policy on biographies, which means the material has to be verifiable and consists of no original research. So unless an article clearly states that "Jane Doe is a consistant on the 12th cycle of America's Next Top Model", it is not a good source. For example, this link looks to be good because it says that Aminat is part of ANTM and lists her last name, but says that the last name is from a Google search and could be her. So it's not a good source in the end. This link just shows a girl who plays volleyball with that name. She possibly is the same girl (perhaps probably), but it says nothing about her on Top Model. She could have gotten married. She could have changed her last name for whatever reason. So this could be wrong. Hence, it's original research. I know it's somewhat trivial, but if people are insisting that we insert last names, we have to take precautions. I know that Wikipedia has gotten last names wrong in the past. Again, Wikipedia doesn't have to be the first to get the information, but it has to get the information right. SKS2K6 (talk) 23:09, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I think that you are being ridiculously overscrupulous. The ban on original research is to protect articles from false information, not to require explicite documentation, from a narrow list of approved sources, on every detail.   Half of what is wrtten in wikipedia is original research and unsourced, it is usually only called into question, if there is reasonable doubt about it's accuracy.  The weight of the source needs to be proportional to the level of questionability of a statement, and for the purpose of establishing the names of the contestants, the sources you deleted were resonable to establish  the names of the contestants.


 * Allison Harvard has been an Icon on the internet got over 5 years, millons of people know who she is and she had over 100,000 freinds on her myspace page. when she became a contestant she had to take down all of her sites so they werent available as a reference. but the blog that was referened pre dated the shows announcement and had her name and her photo on it. The reference for Celia Ammerman  was not a blog, but a web magazine, it certanly esablishes her identity.  London Levi had a page on Model Mayhem that was deleted, but the credit given to her for the photo of her should be sufficient.  before you go removing references and deleting names why don't you do a little research.


 * Of course the 3 revert rule (which you violated) prevents me from reverting your deletions, but hopefully someone eldse will come along and fix it -Misty Willows (talk) 01:12, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I apologize if you feel that I violated WP:3RR; I tried my best to avoid doing so. I have removed blogs as sources, which clearly violates WP:SOURCES.  And I have personally checked many of these sources, and it clearly is original research.  None of them say that the contestant ("Full Name") is a contestant on Top Model, nor do any of them even hint at it.  There is one that does, and as I mentioned previously, even that source says that it's her possible last name.  There has to be guess work in all of them.  You have to look at the picture given out by CW.  Then you have to go hunting around for a website that has a picture of her too, somehow.  Then you have to put two and two together.  If, as you say, this Allison Harvard is an icon, and therefore obviously notable, then a reliable source should have stated that by now.  Also, I looked at the Celia Ammerman article, and I couldn't find a mention of her anywhere.  But of course, I'm human; I may have overlooked it.
 * Again, I do apologize if you feel that I'm going over the top in any way. I just feel that there's no need for this rush to get the last names in as soon as possible, when they're not even that notable anyway.  Is it really that important to have all the last names in?  It's not like we're gonna be creating Wikipedia articles for most of them.  Also, even the redirects were called into question not too long ago.
 * Since I obviously don't want to be a hassle, I will leave that section is, but I will say that I truly believe that OR header belongs there. Since people are so antsy to put last names in, let them do so; I guess it's too minor for me to keep looking after it.  But as I said before, Wikipedia articles on previous Top Model cycles have been wrong before, and I think that's the clear reason why I'm against it, cuz what's the point of putting in all this information when it could be wrong anyway?  But again, I do apologize if you feel that I have been disruptive. SKS2K6 (talk) 02:23, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
 * One more thing: I have reverted the article to before my last edit. I hope that this should suffice. SKS2K6 (talk) 02:31, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I hope you didn't take my comments too personally, it wasn't my intention to attack you, and I do appreciate your diligence to improve the quality of Wikipedia. I agree that the OR header should remain on the section, until there are solid references for all the names, and I realize there has been a major problem with fake names in the past. but so far I have 100% confidence in the referenced names. Regarding Celia Ammerman, the caption for the picture states "Celia Ammerman and Sissy Clemens", so if you look, again you should see it.   -- Misty Willows (talk) 06:42, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Get in the Fold
What does the promotional catch-phrase mean? It means trying to fold the paper? Fold means Sheep Field, Paper Fold, A group of people with whom you feel you belong or who share the same ideas or beliefs, or all above?? 118.68.61.5 (talk) 05:39, 31 January 2009 (UTC).

Creepy-chan
Allison Harvard has been an internet icon for a while now. Pictures of her (I'm assuming taken by herself) in which she looks kind of like a zombie have been circulating through 4chan for years now, so much so that she's been given the nick-name "Creepy-chan" on the website and various other forums. Here's an example of one of the images: http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y204/C-strife/creepychankp9.jpg (you can find more by simply typing "creepy-chan" in google images). I was just wondering if her internet-celebrity status is enough to be mentioned on the article. Pierce123ok (talk) 09:41, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Teyona Stewart????
I don't believe that the Teyona Stewart in the reference is the same person as Teyona on ANTM. Does anyone have any evidence that this is the same Teyona? -Misty Willows (talk) 07:51, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
 * well i still don't believe the person in the original reference was the same Teyona, but courierpostonline.com states that Teyona's last name actually is stewart. I hope this is a fortunate coincidence, and not a case of the article writer getting the name from here.  -Misty Willows (talk)  04:43, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I found an article where Teyon stated that her last name is Anderson. Most of the previous sources, either got Stewart from here, or made the same mistake, that the person who added the original reference made. It's a sad day when newspapers use Wikipedia as a source.     -Misty Willows (talk) 23:23, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Date
I'm confused. Originally the premier date was supposed to be February 25. Now, surfing the web I'm starting to see March 9, and even March 4. Everywhere i look its different. Can someone please clarify? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.254.153.163 (talk) 14:01, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
 * The season premiere was previously scheduled to air Feb 25, but the network changed the schedule, and it is now airing March 4  -Misty Willows (talk) 20:08, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Call-out Order
Is that call-out order spoiled somewhere? The first episode hasn't even finished airing yet.--Cg41386 (talk) 02:18, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
 * call out order tables are subject to frequent Vandalism. Don't take it at face value until it survives a bunch of edits. -Misty Willows (talk) 08:58, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

'Digital art' Label
Does anyone think that it's necessary on the call-out order chart to use coloring to denote that the first girl's photo becomes digital art in the house? It seems unnecessary and redundant given that then the whole top row (first call-out) will all be orange, thus being kind of pointless. If it seems worthy to note this privilege, then perhaps we can just add a footnote to the table indicating it. For now, I just deleted it. Thereisn0try (talk) 22:10, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
 * It's not really necessary. It can be noted somewhere in the general description of the show.  ...  disco spinster   talk  22:20, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Circular Reference
I removed Seacostonline.com as a reference, because the writer of the article stated in an email, that they got their info from here. -Misty Willows (talk) 11:59, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Episode 2 Challenge
Why is Celia listed as the challenge winner? She did get the key to the house, but it appears that Nigel gave it to her merely because she was standing in the center of the group of girls. I don't think that constitutes a challenge, much less a win. Jhg812 (talk) 16:05, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I've taken that out. It was not referred to as a challenge in the show, and the girls did not have to do anything to "win".  ...  disco spinster   talk  19:08, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * It's revealed in the recap episode that Paulina and Nigel had prepared a challenge regarding sightseeing on top of the Empire State Building, and Celia won that challenge. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.35.190.163 (talk) 01:56, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

teyonas makeover
it should say

long curly weave, later changed to beverly peele inspired weave —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.37.112.205 (talk) 21:18, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

cycle 12 remind
the recap is ep 8 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.37.112.205 (talk) 02:34, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Sutan & Christian
They are originally the staff of this show, so it's no use adding their names as the guests. OK? User:Es.ntp. 118.68.237.244 (talk) 12:48, 1 April 2009 (UTC).

Celia, part 2
According to the recap, Celia got the key to the house in episode 2 when she won a previously unaired New York sightseeing challenge. It's not a major one, but should it be considered as a challenge and added to the table? Jhg812 (talk) 01:39, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

2 Challenges
Just like in the final 6 episode of cycle 11 this cycle had 2 challenges: one where the girls split into teams to get the keys to the house and the other challenge. On the Cycle 11, Samantha won two challenges (and another person won each of the challenges as well) and had a different shade of blue on the call out order saying that she won two challenges. Tonight, Fo won both challenges (Natalie won another) so Fo should have the blue color and Natalie should have the color of winning the challenge and being eliminated in the same episode. Coinboybrian (talk) 01:20, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

callout average and other statistics
all ntm's should include this! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.96.153.203 (talk) 14:11, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Agency Signing
Big news. Jessica and natalie got signed to Ford Models. Again, Jessica and Natalie got signed to Ford Models. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.197.10.116 (talk) 10:53, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Allison Episode Titles?
...Why are most of the episode titles labeled as something to do with Allison Harvard? Someone vandalized the page again. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.184.89.188 (talk) 17:06, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Edit request from 98.247.31.29, 27 October 2010
On this page:

http://wapedia.mobi/en/America%27s_Next_Top_Model,_Cycle_12?p=2

Please replace the dead link in section 6. REFERENCES, #16 "Photo by Michael J Laudini Playboy Magazine October 2009 p. 141" with:

http://www.tuabella.com/category/modeling-related/london-levi/

I am the photographer and will be posting more of London on the linked page referenced.

Thanks, Michael Laudini

98.247.31.29 (talk) 00:30, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅ We don't edit Wapedia, but I'll make the change here, which should be mirrored on Wapedia automatically. I have one reservation: the image of the playboy page is missing the word "Playboy," the month and year, and the page number. --Lexein (talk) 23:38, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Add makeovers please
Jessica - Shoulder-length haircut and dyed red

Nijah - Black hair weave

Kortnie - Dyed deep red

Sandra - Hair shaved and bleached

Tahlia - Dyed honey blonde

London - Short crop, dyed platinum blonde, and bangs added

Natalie - No makeover

Fo - Pixie haircut

Celia - Short crop

Aminat - Curly hair extensions

Allison - Dyed yellow blonde

Teyona - Slicked-black jheri curl hair weave; later, curly black hair weave

--216.118.143.198 (talk) 00:42, 2 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately, we can't include these per WP:OR and WP:POV. Thanks! Plastikspork ―Œ (talk) 01:51, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Agree with the OR assessment, but if this info is in a reliable, independent non-blog, non-forum source, then it could possibly be added as brief prose (not a list), and without adjectives. --Lexein (talk) 10:46, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

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Removal of trivial sections
I have removed a substantive amount of content, which is either trivia and/or unsourced. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 02:12, 24 July 2023 (UTC)


 * I don’t really believe the information is trivial, information about how the season actually went is important to readers interested in this topic. Would you mind elaborating on why you find it to be trivial? @Sportsfan 1234 Umbrellathorn (talk) 14:32, 20 August 2023 (UTC)