Talk:American Cancer Society/Archive 1

The
The revert I just performed was because the information added was copyvio. DJ Clayworth 05:34, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I reverted some minor changes which might (charitably) have been someone with poor English attempting to improve the grammar. --Brianyoumans 06:53, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Is it Ok for me to create a Look Good Feel Better page?
--Cathy1107 19:58, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

sources people!
this page is lacking citations. I would use the tag that says so but i dont remember how to use it.

Mike 13:31, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

criticisms section
69.15.77.51 has removed the criticism section twice. the criticisms section is well documented, and i don't feel it unfair. if they feel it is biased, they're encouraged to edit it accordingly (e.g. adding ACS's response to the criticisms), rather than deleting it in total. --Kneague 01:23, 26 February 2007 (UTC)


 * As it was the only section that was clearly not a copyvio (that I could determine at least), I restored the criticism section after my revert (discussed in another section below). I just wanted to note that my revert/restoration is unrelated to whatever is going on with regards to the criticism section. – Zawersh 01:19, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Copyvio
The contents of this article have been replaced by the contents of http://www.cancer.org/docroot/AA/content/AA_1_2_ACS_Fact_Sheet.asp three times now. I just reverted one, the two previous reverts were done on May 5, 2005 and April 6, 2005.

Unfortunately, a lot of edits have been made since the article was last replaced by copyrighted text in December 2006. I apologize to any editors whose work may have been chopped out. I was following the guidelines given at WP:CP that says "For blatant copyright infringements: If there is a clean revision in the page history, revert to it.". – Zawersh 01:01, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Work on criticism section
Hi, I edited the criticism section today. Criticism sections are possibly the most important sections to be properly cited. This particular criticism section was rife with uncited opinion and original research. It's just not acceptable on Wikipedia to make claims like these. If someone adds anything to a criticism section, please ensure that the citation is a notable person or research organization who has studied the matter and that the cite backs the sentence it is used to cite. Links which show statistics alone are NOT support for a criticism section; they are merely statistics and should merely be listed or stated as such.--Jeff 19:41, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Mea culpa. I will try to cite my addition, but am not sure it is possible. Just now I tried to look up the federal excise tax on imported cigarettes but that information was served by Akamai {example). -[[User:Susanlesch|Susanlesch] (talk) 08:56, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Well Charity Navigator had two pages that could be used to cite some of the existing text. Done. That is about all I can do at the moment. -Susanlesch (talk) 09:16, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
 * One more thing. I did receive a list orally from 1-800-QUIT-NOW just now (thank you and apologies for any transcription errors here). American Cancer Society operates the state quitline in Delaware, Florida, Kansas, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Michigan, Nebraska, New Jersey, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Texas, Vermont, Washington, D.C., and Wyoming as of today. But from Apple Mac OS I am unable to access the North American Quitline Consortium map at this time. Thus the statement is unciteable from my operating system. But I do remember a few years ago this list was different and I could access complete information about each U.S. state line at that site. So maybe it will reappear later on. Also unciteable, but the same situation I encountered many years ago, the person answering the phone may not be able to assist the caller immediately (because of training issues perhaps, and lack of credentials in the area of counselling and medicine). The caller is referred to an intake process. For a quitline that is closed nights (typical hours I encountered matched those given to me today, though I don't remember Sunday being available at one point—Monday through Thursday 6:00AM to 11:00PM, Friday 6:00AM to 8:00PM, Saturday and Sunday 8:00AM to 6:00PM). Hopeless. I guess the society system could be streamlined to cost much less and deliver better service but after so many years I personally am out of time and do not plan to argue with them again. But on topic, this is all unciteable today. -Susanlesch (talk) 15:12, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Although I can't cite everything I can copy here the source I did add to the article: -Susanlesch (talk) 15:16, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Boy I can remember when replying to oneself on the Internet was considered bad manners. Anyhoo, I tried to click the Map again now in Firefox—nothing happened—and give up for now. Sorry but in my opinion a Gertrude Stein quote is too good for these folks today. -Susanlesch (talk) 00:39, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh it does work, wonderful. As usual 10 out of 11 computer errors are user errors. -Susanlesch (talk) 00:43, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

More errors in Criticism
In full discloser, I am employed by the American Cancer Society (ACS). However, I am posting these revisions on my own behalf, maintaining NPOV, and not as an agent of the ACS. No one asked me to make these revisions.

I’m removing the following section:


 * Smoking cessation help centers funded by the states of the United States through taxes paid  by consumers of tobacco (sometimes 500% of the cost of the product), sometimes operated by the American Cancer Society, are closed at night and none can provide immediate assistance to callers.

The National Cancer Information Center (NCIC) located in Austin, Texas is open 24 hours a day 7 days a week with counseling services from 7:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. in most covered states (Florida starts at 6:00 a.m. or 8:00 a.m. depending on the day of the week). The only exception is Thanksgiving Day and Christmas Day. This can be verified at The North American Quitline Consortium. Some states use other vendors for Quitline services that do not offer 24 hour service (Including Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Georgia, Tennessee, Utah, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia, Wisconsin, etc.).

I find no justification for the claim that the NCIC is “closed at night and none can provide immediate assistance to callers.”

I'm sure there is valid criticism out there but this is not it. Matthew R. Lee Matthew R. Lee (talk) 02:21, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Fund allocation and more
I replaced the text of this section and removed the following statement:


 * “It [ACS] spends 8% of its income on administration, $760,000 of which goes to the CEO.”

The June 2007 | article used as a reference says CEO John F. Seffrin has a $966,735 compensation package. The Better Business Bureaureports $1,101,119 for 2006, and Charity Navigator Rating says $534,619 for 2005. Who is right and where did the $760,000 figure come from? I’m removing this line.

If someone feels a reference to the CEOs compensation should be included (it's public record) find a better way to express the numbers.

I also added information on the sword symbol and added wiki links. for all the cultural impact the ACS has had on the United States, this page is weak. It needs a lot of work including sections on history, organization, and PSAs. More needs to be in this article.

There are more errors to correct, but for now I'll stop. Matthew R. Lee (talk) 03:10, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I personally think that CEO compensation is highly relevant to this article...it says a lot about the values behind the organization, how it is run, how they use money. If there are conflicting figures from different sources, then I think we should include all figures, or if there are very many of them, include a range of max to min, and a statement that different sources provide different info.  One problem with the ACS that has come up in the past is a lack of transparency, and even documents issued by the organization that had conflicting financial figures--see the Arizona Chapter controversy for an extreme example.  Cazort (talk) 15:36, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Harm reduction
How about criticisms of the ACS from a harm reduction perspective? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.114.76.58 (talk) 02:45, 3 November 2009 (UTC)