Talk:American Cocker Spaniel/Archive 1

famous cockers
Just removed this:


 * Ruby, Ch. Pett's Southwest Breeze was the first Cocker Spaniel in history to be awarded the American Kennel Club's Master Hunter title.

I can't see as how this is more famous than, say, the first cocker to be awarded any other org's master hunter (or equivalent) title, or the first cocker to be awarded an agility championship in any of several organizations, or the first to be awarded an obedience championship in any of several organizations, etc. It seems to me that this dog isn't likely to be recognized as "famous" outside the AKC hunt community other than that someone has done a good job of self-promotion and gotten the dog listed on all kinds of cocker sites... Elf | Talk 17:47, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Puppy photo
Removed this photo from main article because it really needs cropping at least and its pose isn't all that educational, although the coat is different from others currently posted. Elf | Talk 01:33, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Looks like that photo is back, I put a photo request on this talk page because I saw the puppy photo, than looked at the history and relised that there was a good photo there. So in short, my apologies for clogging up this page history. Oh yes, and I'm removing that photo (again). Pharaoh Hound 11:58, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree that the adult photo is a better representation of the breed for an infobox. Removed puppy again. --Bcsr4ever 22:45, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Removed again. Looks like User:Funkymint insists on using his or her own dog photo.--Counsel 02:52, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Photo is still there. This puppy photo shows a cavalier king charles spaniel, not an american cocker which is the breed this article is all about. august 28'th 2007

Awful picture
I have to say; OH MY GOD! What an awful picture to represent the beautiful dog breed Am. Cocker Spaniel. It's a shame!!!


 * Someone just needs to take a photo of one and upload it. I can't say that I disagree with you. Elf | Talk 01:54, 4 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Article now has some nice and licenced pictures, removing reqeust. -Dr Haggis - Talk 03:34, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Cocker Spaniels breathe fire!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.175.47.254 (talk) 14:58, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Lead picture
That is a beautiful dog. Unfortunately it looks like the circumstance from the picture that it just did agility in a muddy field and the mud in the ears and along the fur really don't make for a good lead photo. SchmuckyTheCat (talk)

..I totally agree. Perhaps something like:http://www.flickr.com/photos/erie/132860780/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bndude792 (talk • contribs) 00:08, 8 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Maybe he's got wet ear and skirt hair because he's been being a spaniel, not a show or lap dog. Maybe someone has been respecting his breed needs and has arranged for him to express them in a healthy way instead of seeking birdish objects to flush and retrieve in the wastebasket in the den.  These are the reasons that I like this photo better than the showdog photos many articles have, which don't always take into account the breed behavior and in the context that shaped the nature of the breed, which in this case imply getting dirty.  And he's pretty clean, not that dirty, anyway.  For example, the main photo of an Alaskan malamute would, yes, ideally show him in a perfect show-dog type pose to maximize morphological display, but he'd also be wearing a harness in the snow with a dogsled in the background.  So I like this picture.  Even if he is a bit dirty, he's happy because he's been being a cocker spaniel.  Chrisrus (talk) 18:19, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Breed standards
Breed standards are the blue prints of any breed and i believe that in every wiki page on a particular breed there should be a written breed standards. My reasoning is simple in that all your words and every one else's words are but opinions in reality. want to get to the real source, the real dog, then quote the standards of a breed.

now with a few breeds the standards have been changed so that the evolution of the dog and the looks of the breed have changed and are still changing in all breeds, especially when certain registries change the blue prints.

Here is an example. this is a standard for the coat on the true American Cocker Spaniel:

Coat On the head, short and fine; on the body, medium length, with enough undercoating to give protection. The ears, chest, abdomen and legs are well feathered, but not so excessively as to hide the Cocker Spaniel's true lines and movement or affect his appearance and function as a moderately coated sporting dog. The texture is most important. The coat is silky, flat or slightly wavy and of a texture which permits easy care. Excessive coat or curly or cottony textured coat shall be severely penalized. Use of electric clippers on the back coat is not desirable. Trimming to enhance the dog's true lines should be done to appear as natural as possible.

now, get out a pencil and paper and draw what those words say to you. The american Cocker spaniel that you see today is not the american cocker spaniel in the blue print you just read.

So, what is an american cocker spaniel? is it what akc puts up in their show rings? who the hekc is akc? what about ukc? they are more protective of the correctness of this particular breed as they adhere to the breed standards.

This needs to be talked about in the wiki pages ... the breed standards are the blue prints of each breed and like i said, even AKC has their opinions and their judges put up what they feel is a good example of the breed, but are they correct? i stand by the breed standards as that is the correct identification of any breed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shepalutes (talk • contribs) 16:07, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

Temperament
"Members of the breed were originally used as hunting dogs, but increased in popularity as a show dog. It was bred more and more in conformation with the breed standard, resulting in certain attributes, such as a long coat, which no longer make it an ideal working dog.[25]" -- 1) I'm not sure what any of this has to do with temperament. 2) The standard says, "The ears, chest, abdomen and legs are well feathered, but not so excessively as to hide the Cocker Spaniel's true lines and movement or affect his appearance and function as a moderately coated sporting dog. "... "Excessive coat or curly or cottony textured coat shall be severely penalized"; show breeders opted to breed for full coats. The coat does not have to do with temperament or its ability to be an ideal working dog(you can trim a coat). The statement that it is "no longer an ideal working dog" is an opinion statement and unless there have been studies, should not be listed as fact.

"The breed ranks 20th in Stanley Coren's The Intelligence of Dogs, a rating that indicates good "Working or Obedience Intelligence", or trainability.[27] IQ tests run on a variety of breeds in the 1950s and 1960s showed that the American Cocker performed the best when tested on its ability to show restraint and delayed response to a trigger, a trait which was put down to the breed's bred-in ability when hunting to freeze upon finding a bird before flushing it out on command. However, they proved to be the worst breed tested when it came to manipulating objects with their paws, for instance uncovering a dish of food or pulling on a string.[28]" -- Again this is not temperament, this is intelligence and physical abilities.

Suggestion: Add a section just on "colors and markings". Note the year sable was removed from acceptable colors/markings in the AKC, why it was removed, the debate on whether it is a marking or color, and that outside of the U.S.A., sable is still showable. Note that merles are not a standard color and why(the merle gene can be hidden in certain colors, thus increasing the likelihood of a merle-to-merle breeding, causing 1/4 to die and the associated health issues-blindness and deafness caused by the lack of necessary pigment)Lzjns (talk) 21:01, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

Photo Caption
"American Cocker Spaniel (adult) with Fawn / Golden coat." -- "Fawn" is not a color listed on AKC's website. Suggest change to "Buff/Golden"
 * , Hi, hope you get a notification, because I have mentioned you or either you are watching this article page now. I agree with your comment here. I have changed the caption to just 'golden' colour because that is what the person who loaded the image stated was the colour. On Wikimedia Commons (if you click on the image it will take you to a file description page, they do not have this dog in any colour category). So I have just changed it to golden. If you see buff in the dog and that is an accepted colour, feel free to add it. Personally, I have just added this image to the category of unidentified dog colours on Commons: . Thanks and happy editing,  Fylbecatulous talk 22:49, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 07:33, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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