Talk:American Hockey League/Archive 1

RE: the logo pic
What is the official logo for the league these days? Is it the old skater silhouette or the newer swirly thing? I see the new logo marketed much more on the ice and on merchandise, but old logo is featured predominatly on the league website. ccwaters 00:25, January 20, 2005 (UTC)

STJ Flames -> Omaha
Omaha is indeed the old STJ Flames franchise. It was owned and held dormant by Calgary, until they sold it to the Ak-Sar-Ben Knights Organization earlier this year. REF: http://www.theahl.com/AHL/News/2005/03/28/974618.html ccwaters 20:59, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

Broome or Binghamton Dusters?
Discussion relocated to Talk:Binghamton Dusters where it is more relevant. ccwaters 21:42, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Wrong winners of Calder Cup 2000-2001 season.
http://www.caldercup.com/AHLPlayoffGames01/may28_snb_wbs.html.

Saint John, N.B. won in 2000-2001, not Saint John's Newfoundland. Saint John Flames (no longer in existence).


 * Fixed...thanks ccwaters 20:30, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Road Runners or Roadrunners
Just for references: Its Toronto Roadrunners ( http://www.theahl.com/AHLNews0302/11_tor.html ) and Edmonton Road Runners ( http://www.canoe.ca/AHL/News/2004/08/19/591322.html ). Thanks uvaduck! ccwaters 14:58, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Top professional hockey league outside the NHL?
The article calls the AHL the top professional hockey league outside the National Hockey League (NHL). This is a very questionable statement, and many would argue that this title should go to the Russian Hockey Super League or the Swedish Elitserien. I suggest the following rephrasing:

The American Hockey League (AHL) is regarded as the top professional hockey league in North America outside the National Hockey League (NHL).

Why did you delete Worcester from the main page?
There is even a press article: http://www.telegram.com/apps/pbcs.dl...601010593/1009. Put it back!


 * A broken link, that is. That aside, as CC's said a couple times already, Wikipedia is not a rumor page.  When the AHL (or the Sharks) make a formal announcement, then an update is needful.  Until then, it remains scuttlebutt, and there's no rush.  Ravenswing 20:15, 9 January 2006 (UTC)


 * The official announcement should be sometime today. Until then, its speculatory. A press release similar to this would be nice: http://www.theahl.com/AHL/News/2005/10/20/1270959.html ccwaters 20:28, 9 January 2006 (UTC)


 * How original. its the Worcester Sharks... http://www.sjsharks.com/news/news.asp?story_id=2034 / http://www.worcesterhockey.com/ ccwaters 21:22, 9 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Sad to see an honored name like the Barons disappear again, but if the locals didn't support the team ... and in any event, Worcester was seriously screwed last year. Ravenswing 21:29, 9 January 2006 (UTC)


 * At least the "IceCats" won't be resurrected. Here's the AHL announcement: http://www.theahl.com/AHL/News/2006/01/09/1386129.html ccwaters 21:46, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

AHL HoF
Just a note: the AHL Hall of Fame is up and running and looks like a good resource for records and such. ccwaters 14:56, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Visors
Anyone think the mandatory visor announcement is worth mentioning. The AHL has been a testing ground for NHL changes in recent years. Also: I created an article for Jordan Smith. ccwaters 00:02, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Not really. The main article is quite text-light, and the visor deal is a relative blip on the historical radar.  It would be notable, I think, in an article about sports injuries and protective equipment in general, if one exists.  Ravenswing 06:52, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

CCWaters
who made you master of all things hockey? i am trying to cut down on red links first, then will go back and fill in franchise shift histories, making new entries where necessary. stop following me around on wikipedia reverting everything. WillC 16:46, 13 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Reverting everything? I'm not following you. I watch hockey articles, not you. ccwaters 16:48, 13 August 2006 (UTC)


 * you just reverted sensible edits i made....those red links have been there for months...i'm doing something about them....look at the standards on all other wiki sports franchise lists....they are merged just as i am doing. WillC 16:52, 13 August 2006 (UTC)


 * If I make the missing articles for them, will you put them back? ccwaters 16:56, 13 August 2006 (UTC)


 * if there are articles for them, they can get their own. please fix your reverts for now, noting the additional changes i made after. WillC 16:58, 13 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, the Springfield Kings -> Worcester IceCats is wrong. If you feel the need to temporarily redirect the other 3(?) for a day or 2 then go ahead. ccwaters 17:02, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, CC is right. The standard in WikiHockey is for notable franchises to have their own articles, not to redirect to wherever the franchise currently is located. If you have a burning urge to do something about red links, create the requisite articles for them. There is no need to violate WP:CIVIL because an editor follows the standard this WikiProject has set. Ravenswing 06:49, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
 * On a related note, I created a redirect at Springfield Kings to go to the Indians. I figured that was the best way to handle that temporary renaming. A seperate article may be confusng in that situation. ccwaters 11:26, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

2006-07 AHL season
Are there any articles for season-by-season recounts of the AHL, such List of AHL seasons? The 2006 Calder Cup bracket should be preserved the 2005-06 AHL season article. Flibirigit 20:54, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Founding date
I am changing the founding date to 1940. Since this is when the league was actually known as the American Hockey League. The rest is prehistory. Flibirigit 10:03, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Errr ... while I'm all for talking, I'm afraid I'm going to revert that at once. The AHL itself dates its founding from 1936, just was celebrating its 70th anniversary, and seems to be under the impression that it played four seasons before the fall of 1940.  The AHL itself is considerably more verifiably an authority on its incorporation dates than any of our own POVs.  Ravenswing 15:26, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm fine with that. Just as long as it stays that way. I will make the necessary changes to he AHL season articles. Flibirigit 15:49, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Cleveland info coming soon
Cleveland team will most likely be Avalanche affiliated: http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_4801378 ccwaters 14:05, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Buffalo Bisons disbanding Date conflict
According to this article the Buffalo Bisons disbanded on December 6, 1936. But according to another article the snowstorm was on March 17, 1936.

Please respond at Talk:Buffalo Bisons (1928-36)

Thanks Flibirigit 14:58, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Pioneering rules/innovations
I think we need a paragraph or section mentioning that the AHL innovates rules changes, such as the shootout. I think there was something about flashing goalposts too? Flibirigit 12:31, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Overtime Loss
In the 1986-87 standings it shows the AHL counting overtime losses, and not tie games. In the 1987-88 standings it shows the AHL counting overtime losses and tie games. Then, in the 1988-89 standings it shows only tie games being counted. The overtime does not appear again until the 1995-96 season.

Can anyone elaborate on the timeline for rules changes with respect to overtime losses etc in the AHL? Flibirigit 18:24, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * According to the AHL FAQs, the shootout was "re-introduced" in 2004-05. Is it possible the shootout was used in 1986-87?  It seems it must have been, as that would be the only way to have zero ties.  I will keep my eyes opened for more information. Skudrafan1 18:43, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
 * OK, here we go: according to the AHL Record Book, the records for most shootouts played and most shootout losses were set by the Binghamton Whalers and New Haven Nighthawks, respectively, in 1986-87. Skudrafan1 18:45, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I seriously don't remember witnessing any shut outs and I went to plenty B-Whale games that season. Granted, I was only 9 then. I thought shutouts were an IHL novelty back then? Ccwaters 01:59, December 16, 2006 (UTC)


 * Nope, the AHL had tried them out for a year, but the traditionalists screeched their heads off. The first time I saw a shootout was in 1991, and even in the empty arena (this was the lone Albany Choppers game I ever attended) you could feel the electricity.  Ravenswing 21:40, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * So let me break this down by year:
 * 1) 1986-87 season - The AHL determines all tie games by shootouts, and awards the loser an overtime loss.
 * 2) 1987-88 season - The AHL does not have a shootout.. but counts ties and overtime losses in the standings.
 * 3) 1988-89 season to 1994-95 season - There are no shootouts or overtime losses
 * 4) 1995-96 season - The AHL resumes awarding points for overtime losses.
 * 5) 2004-05 season - The AHL resumes the shootout, and introduces the shootout loss points in the standings.

Is this correct? Flibirigit 21:55, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes. Ravenswing 05:27, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Affiliation agreements
I starting thinking about this when Norfolk official were quoted saying they had 6 NHL teams contacting them about potential affiliations for next year: I think we should list affiliation terms on the team pages. The start of my findings: ccwaters 14:41, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Binghamton-OTT = 2012 (just got renewed yesterday)
 * Portland-ANA = 2010
 * Hershey-WAS = 2009
 * Syracuse-CLM = 2010
 * Manitoba-VAN = 2009
 * NHL teams without agreements: Carolina, Florida, Edmonton
 * Affiliations are already listed on the team articles. As for "details" about the terms, I haven't seen many at all. Future agreements are not listed as not referenced. Flibirigit 16:22, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 * When I say "terms" I mean the longevity of the agreement (when does it expire). I can give references for at least those 5 I listed above plus Norfolk (obviously expiring this year), Albany (Carolina was a 1 year deal, with Hurricanes option to reup which hasn't happened yet) and then about half of the AHL clubs are owned by the NHL club/parent company. Basically I was proposing something like NHL Affiliation: Ottawa Senators (through 2012) and  NHL Affiliation: Philadelphia Flyers (direct ownership) ccwaters 16:53, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm compiling this here: User:Ccwaters/ahl affil. Add if you like. ccwaters 21:55, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I think this is something good to add to the introduction of the team. I think its too much to add to the infoboxes though. Flibirigit 01:07, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

2007-08 Division Alignment Announced
I kept the 2006-07 alignment on the page because i didn't know if it was ok to replace it. I found out the alignment yesterday in an email i got from the ahl. So, i filled in the table with the info i got from the page below. Here's the AHL page documenting the alignment. Mrsteak613 14:01, 31 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, keep the 2006-07 list: the Calder Cup hasn't even started yet. I think both lists is overkill. I amended it. ccwaters 15:10, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Awards for executives
According to this article, the Ken McKenzie Award is given out to the "to an AHL team executive who most successfully promotes his or her own club." Is anyone else aware of other awards for executives, or has complete lists of recipients? Flibirigit 19:20, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The AHL has now added five awards for executives to its trophy case. I will now add them here. Flibirigit 17:47, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Two Admirals?
What a coincidence. This would certainly cause confusion if Milwaukee's Admirals took on Norfolk's Admirals. 64.215.225.207 21:12, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Which has happened several times since Milwaukee joined the league, as part of the IHL merger.   Ravenswing  04:30, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Announced teams
I added the Texas Stars to the list of teams, listed them as announced for 2009 or 2010, and provided a reference (http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/stories/local/02/21/0221cedarpark.html). Why was this deleted? --Mgreen09 (talk) 18:06, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Is the name going to be "Texas Stars", if so, please provide a reference. This was just announced and there are a lot of questions yet to be answered, please don't rush it: you're not going to get a prize for reporting it first. ccwaters (talk) 18:09, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Good point, that article didn't mention that specifically. This one does: (http://www.keyetv.com/content/news/topnews/story.aspx?content_id=a29b2e94-a5ce-48bb-ae58-fd426a73351e) I'd like to reinsert. Would users prefer adding to historic list with parenthetical note that team begins play in 2009 or 2010, or creating a new "Announced Teams" section?--Mgreen09 (talk) 18:20, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd add a "Future Teams" section directly under the "Dormant teams". Coincidently I think the old Road Runners will be the future Stars. ccwaters (talk) 19:04, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Will do, agree on the approach. I agree with you on the Road Runners, but will wait until we know for sure on that.--Mgreen09 (talk) 20:30, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

It appears the Iowa Stars will become the Texas Stars team. (http://www.insidehockey.com/columns/1393) But the AHL is staying in Iowa, according to the article, so I wonder if the dormant Road Runners will become the new Iowa team. S. Ellis (talk) 02:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)


 * The Iowa team is staying put according to sources cities in their article, but they will get a new identity along with a new affiliation. I'm removing the rumored "Iowa Thunder" from Future Teams for two reasons:
 * 
 * It's speculation and rumor; and
 * Even if true, a team changing names doesn't constitute a "future team".
 * 
 * SixFourThree (talk) 14:33, 6 May 2008 (UTC)SixFourThree


 * I removed it from the timeline too... ccwaters (talk) 14:46, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

2009/2010 Teams
Hi all, after the current season, i'll offer to fix all the teams and the divisional alignments for next season with all the sources, etc. Warriorshockey1 (talk) 00:16, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The change of ownership of the Phantoms' franchise occurred on April 27, 2009, when it was approved by the AHL Board of Governors at their meeting in Chicago, and the Philadelphia Phantoms ceased to exist as an member of the league under that name on that date. While the relocated team has not yet played a game in Glens Fall, NY, under its new name of Adirondack Phantoms, the club is now conducting business there, is selling seasons tickets (reportedly 1,700 already sold), and have an active affiliation agreement with the Philadelphia Flyers as their NHL parent club. The Philadelphia Phantoms, on the other hand, have ceased ongoing operations and now no longer exist under that name as a member club of the AHL.


 * I have been working in professional hockey (NHL, AHL, NAHL) in Philadelphia, Hershey, and Portland, Maine, for more than forty years and was intimately involved with the Phantoms for their entire 13 seasons in Philadelphia. An AHL club begins to exist as an ongoing entity when it is granted a franchise (or acquires and transfers one) as a member club of the league which always occurs before the team that it operates (in this case the Adirondack Phantoms) plays its first game under that name. It is not necessary to wait until new divisional alignments have been determined and the 2009-2010 schedule has been announced, however, to add the club to the AHL timeline listing. (Centpacrr (talk) 21:42, 12 May 2009 (UTC))


 * So then should we wait until the divisional alignments are released too add and change teams in the team table? Warriorshockey1 (talk) 14:52, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Lowell Devils to Albany
It has been confirmed for the 2010-2011 season and this what was said in Hockey News that the Lowell Devils will be relocating to Albany. Ccwaters deleted my previous contribution and I don't understand why when it has been confirmed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tom991 (talk • contribs) 20:53, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Do you have a link to an article? I looked and I didn't see anything ccwaters (talk) 21:13, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I think i found the article hes talking about but it's only speculation http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/33255-Around-The-AHL-Rats-drowning-in-the-box.html Warriorshockey1 (talk) 22:26, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Realignment
Please keep the list of teams as is. Assuming the league is going to have 30 teams in 2010-11, there will be a realignment decided at the summer meeting. The Conference/Division rosters should be announced in early July. See last year: ccwaters (talk) 13:28, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Error on map
The colors Yellow and Red are reversed in the legend. This should be fixed.--201.6.193.1 (talk) 03:56, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Placement of the NY teams is off as well. I haven't looked at others yet. ccwaters (talk) 12:53, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I created a new map via maps.google. It is a bit tacky but at least it's accurate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Baxter17 (talk • contribs) 17:25, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Map removal
What was the team map a derivative of? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.200.179.58 (talk) 07:05, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
 * It had a trademarked AHL logo in it. ccwaters (talk) 13:59, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Removal of 'dubious' text
I removed the 'second only in age and prestige to the Stanley Cup' text. There are several problems with the statement. One is 'who says'? That is -- it is unsupported. Secondly, there are older hockey trophies than the Calder that are still contested, e.g. Allan Cup and Memorial Cup. There might be college trophies, too. And for the 'prestige' aspect, that would need to be cited specifically. Prestige might be the wrong word, too. ʘ alaney2k  ʘ ( talk ) 15:46, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I endorse your revision. Good catch. TerminalPreppie (talk) 15:49, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Even as a longtime AHL partisan, I can't claim that the Calder Cup is superior in prestige to the Memorial Cup.  Ravenswing  17:01, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I think what could be said, is that the Calder is second to the Stanley Cup in the hierarchy and second-oldest of professional championships still being contested in North America. (Probably a better way to say that mouthful) How would you determine second in the hierarchy? &#x0298; alaney2k  &#x0298; ( talk ) 17:27, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

How can a team be an owner?
"The first of these was the decision of the NHL's Philadelphia Flyers to return to the league as a team owner" What? This makes no sense. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.242.55.66 (talk) 18:56, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Well its simple the NHL team owns a team in the AHL. -DJSasso (talk) 13:30, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, to be precise, the ownership group of the Flyers also owns the AHL team. The Calgary Flames, for instance, do not own the Calgary Hitmen, Roughnecks or Stampeders.  The Calgary Flames Limited Partnership does. Resolute 13:46, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Well technically it depends on how the business situation is set up. The Flames for example could own their farm team instead of the ownership group directly owning it. In fact I would think this is how they would be set up, though I have not looked into it. Whereas the Stampeders and Roughnecks are owned directly by the group. -DJSasso (talk) 16:02, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

AHL Hall of Fame
Should we add the 2012 and 2013 inductees of AHL Hall of Fame? Also, the list begin to be long, do you think it might be a good idea to put it on a separate page?--Sd-100 (talk) 18:40, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
 * It'd make a perfectly acceptable list, in any event.   Ravenswing   02:07, 19 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Sorry for the bump, but maybe we should reconsider the idea of a separate page for the AHL Hall of Fame? The ECHL Hall of Fame have its own entry and the French version of Wikipedia had its own entry for the AHL Hall of Fame as well. --Sd-100 (talk) 20:13, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Feel free!   Ravenswing   21:02, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

Division Alignment?
Has anyone heard if there will be any re-alignment with some of the team movements happening before the new 2013-14 season? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 153.2.247.32 (talk) 13:21, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
 * As of yet the league has not announced. So it is assumed they will remain the same. -DJSasso (talk) 13:29, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

San Antonio franchise
The pages for the San Antonio Rampage and the Adirondack Red Wings say that the Rampage purchased the dormant Adirondack franchise, however the timeline on this page shows these teams as two separate franchises. Which is correct? Dafoeberezin3494 (talk) 03:07, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

Moncton Alpines
Should the Moncton Alpines have their own article or not? Not sure if their history should be added to the Moncton Golden Flames, or a new article created. I created a redirect to Moncton Golden Flames under the title "Moncton Alpines (AHL)". Alaney2k (talk) 14:39, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
 * It was just a case of being renamed the Golden Flames. We don't give new articles for renames, only moves. Their history already exists in that page, its just in a pathetic state, only taking up a few sentences. -DJSasso (talk) 15:21, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
 * , agree per Djsasso above. Although a quick search seems to show exceptions to Cleveland Falcons and New Haven Senators for an unknown reason. Yosemiter (talk) 15:30, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
 * More often than not outliers like that are from the very early days and no one has gotten around to merging the pages. Minor leagues as you know don't get as much attention here. -DJSasso (talk) 15:32, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Yeah ... if we hived off a new article for every technical shift ... Heck, one of the big examples (if we made a split for technical franchise changes) would really piss off the Komets fans, because of course the original Fort Wayne franchise turned into the Albany Choppers.   Ravenswing   16:54, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Was not sure. It changed ownership and affiliation and therefore a whole new set of players and coaches, etc. Alaney2k (talk) 19:35, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Same franchise though. You can see the difference with the Moncton Hawks who started the year right after the Golden Flames folded. In their case they were a different franchise (using the old Boston Braves franchise) so they got a new page. -DJSasso (talk) 12:57, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

IceCaps split?
In the "AHL teams of the past and present" section, the two Bisons teams are listed separately, but the Wolf Pack and Moose only have one entry each (the former became Connecticut Whale for a while and the latter the St. John's IceCaps for a bit). This seems inconsistent, but it makes sense because the Wolf Pack and Moose are still the same franchises. The current IceCaps, on the other hand, are a different franchise (the relocated Bulldogs) from the original IceCaps (the relocated Moose). Should we have two entries for the IceCaps like we do the Bisons? Powers T 21:04, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
 * It was discussed at length Here. Take your interpretations of the discussion as you will. For what it is worth, the two Bisons teams appear to have been separate organizations and franchises (while also separated by some seasons), while the IceCaps, Moose, Hamilton Bulldogs (AHL), Maine Mariners, and WolfPack are the same organization. I believe we mostly just went with the single listing in that section because each of those organizations only have one article about them. Of course, under that assumption, the Springfield Indians -> Syracuse Warriors -> Springfield Indians -> Kings -> Indians is the actual outlier and should probably be discussed about joining into one complicated line for the Indians. Yosemiter (talk) 21:59, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
 * The Indians article already includes the history of the various shifts, and both "Springfield Kings" and "Syracuse Warriors" redirect to the Indians article.   Ravenswing   05:05, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I only mentioned it because it seems LtPowers is referring specifically to this section in the AHL article itself and not the IceCaps article, I think. I do not think we should split the Indians article at all, I was just pointing out that it is an outlier in that section because it is listed four times and it is the same team/organization/franchise/article, Yosemiter (talk) 11:39, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
 * You're correct. I understand the way the articles are handled has some inconsistencies, and there's no good way to do it. I guess the easiest way to handle this list is to create a one-to-one relationship to articles. Powers T 15:15, 12 July 2016 (UTC)