Talk:American Idol/Archive 1

WikiIdol
We are trying to find out who is the favorite idol. can you please post you votes on my talk page? Pkazz' Lets go wick 23:52, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Removed rant
Removed lengthy rant unrelated to the actual article - Wikipedia is not a message board. - Rdash | Talk 16:40, Mar 27, 2004 (UTC)

Too early?
Isn't it a bit early to be adding information on season five? --68.221.173.115, Jan 1, 2005 (UTC)


 * Not now. ;-) Actually, it looks like the information added was already released to the public before the show started airing.  &mdash; Frecklefoot | Talk 16:21, Jan 19, 2005 (UTC)

New judge
Does anyone know who the new judge is? I missed the first 15 minutes of the debut show last night where I assume they introduced him. The official AI website doesn't mention him at all. Also, will he be with the show the entire season or just for the auditions? Regardless, if anyone know anything about him, he should be mentioned in the article. &mdash; Frecklefoot | Talk 16:21, Jan 19, 2005 (UTC)

The dark side
The material added on negative selection of ridiculous contestants is derived from a New York Times editorial criticising the show for sadism, http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/23/opinion/23sun2.html?ex=1107488248. A few examples are from watching the show. Fred Bauder 14:35, Jan 23, 2005 (UTC)

Jumped the gun
The "Once in Hollywood" section describes the procedure introduced this season as if it were present in all seasons. This needs to be noted as the procedure for season 4, with a description of the previous semifinal sequence (which was drastically different) mentioned. Also, if I understand correctly, these aren't the finals per se, as that is reserved for when the performers start playing on the big stage, instead of the small studio. Should the table be modified to only include the final 12, since that's the cutoff point used for the other seasons? Mo0 [ talk ] 03:42, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Information False
There is false information in this listing. The two eliminations/week is only for the semifinals. Additionally, male/females only compete separately in the semifinals. --68.196.67.33


 * Then correct it. Be bold! :-)   &mdash; Frecklefoot | Talk 15:41, Mar 17, 2005 (UTC)

Perform after elimination
Why is it they make the contestants perform right after eliminating them? Have you ever tried to sing right after having your heart ripped out? This has always bothered me... ?  &mdash; Frecklefoot | Talk 15:41, Mar 17, 2005 (UTC)

Lost count
should something be mentioned about how today, on March 23, due to human error, they lost all of yesterday's or whenever's votes and had to redo it all? I don't think it's ever happened before to them so it might be something interesting to add to the article. I don't ever watch the show ever really so I don't know what might be considered important enough to add to the main article. --12.227.128.254


 * I think yes. Actually as I watched the show last night, I thought this event should be added to the article.  First, and hopefully last, time this has ever happened.  Interesting information. :-)


 * BTW, sign your posts. You can do this with 3 or 4 tildes (  or ~ ).  The latter is preferred since it also adds a time stamp.   &mdash; Frecklefoot | Talk 16:06, Mar 24, 2005 (UTC)

Disqualified Contestants
Shouldn't something here be added about the habit of the producers for eliminating/disqualifying contestants for various reasons? EX: the first season a young man was elminated due to an outstanding warrant for his arrest, and I believe it was the second season when fan-favourite Frenchie Davis was diqualified for performing on pornographic websites. Ironically she has gone on to greater success than MANY of the other contestants. Pacian 09:28, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * Sure, feel free to add it. Just be NPOV about it. :-)  &mdash; Frecklefoot | Talk 15:22, Apr 6, 2005 (UTC)

Table
Is it just me, or does the "American Idol Finalists (with dates of elimination)" table bother anyone else? I think the information in it is great, but it's placement leaves a lot to be desired. To find the contestents for the current season, one must scroll way up. This is unnecessary&mdash;the lists should be adjacent to the seasons they pertain to. Unless anyone objects, I'm going to split up the table and make them part of the seasons they pertain to. Any comments? &mdash; Frecklefoot | Talk 19:21, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)


 * As far as I'm concerned, that makes far more sense than the current layout. What about including song lists? Is that simply redundant information, since it's available on Idolonfox? I think it would be nice to have that information collected in this article. Hermione1980 00:49, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

As long as they can be added without making the article look cluttered, I'd say go for it. It'd be good to have the information here since we don't know how long Fox will keep that info up. I'll go ahead with the table splits soon. &mdash; Frecklefoot | Talk 14:30, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC)


 * Here is what I've come up with for the song list, for season four. Any comments? Hermione1980 22:06, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Now that I see them, I can't see how they can be added to the main article without cluttering it. I think it'd be great as a seperate linked article (e.g. American Idol Season Four songs or some such thing). How are you organizing the singers? By their first names? I think it'd be even more useful if you organized them by the order they performed, though this isn't a huge deal. Nice job, they look good! &mdash; Frecklefoot | Talk 18:11, Apr 21, 2005 (UTC)


 * I have the order they sang in for the finals, I think, so I can modify the table to reflect that. I don't have the performance order for the other seasons, though, so someone would have to leave that information on my talk page. I would be happy to do something similar for the other seasons, if I can get the information.


 * One thought: instead of just putting the song list in a separate article, should each season get its own page? That would maybe avoid the problem of taking the song list "out of context". I don't know if that's a problem in this case or not. Hermione1980 21:42, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Making articles for each season might make sense. I don't know, this article is getting pretty long. I say "yes," but let's wait for others to chime in. &mdash; Frecklefoot | Talk 14:13, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)


 * The table i introduced seemed to clean up the page, there was scattered information throughout the article which was I believe 3Kb over the recommended page limit before the table. ZlatkoT 22:58, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

vfd of idol contestant article
Editors of this article might want to register their opinion regarding Votes for deletion/A.J. Gil. Gamaliel 01:25, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

And while you're at it, you could also look at Votes for deletion/EJay Day. Hermione1980 21:52, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

And Votes for deletion/Kimberly Caldwell. Gamaliel 02:36, 7 May 2005 (UTC)


 * EJay Day and Kimberly Caldwell got expanded very well after facing possible deletion, but A.J. Gil has remained a stub. Does he have any fans around to expand his entry? *Dan* 03:06, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

Correct me if I'm wrong...
...but wasn't the 13,000 vote difference between Clay and Ruben a mistake by the person who wrote the card for Ryan Seacrest? As I remember the events, he later stated that there was a mistake and that the difference between them was a mere 1300 votes. This is part of the reason for the heavy controversy of the issue, as it falls well within the margin for error.

Individual season articles?
The recent vfd discussions have gotten me thinking. Perhaps we should take a cue from The Apprentice articles and have breakout articles for each season. The articles for the lesser known contestants could be folded into the individual seasons with articles for those having genuine success in the industry remaining as they are. We could also clear the main article of some of the long charts and lists and get into the week to week dynamics of each season without crowding out the important info in the main article. Any thoughts on this idea? Gamaliel 08:47, 8 May 2005 (UTC)


 * We already discussed this in the "Table" discussion above. I thought it was a good idea, as did Hermione1980 who suggested it.  But no one else responded. If no one object within a few days, I say go for it. :-)   &mdash; Frecklefoot | Talk 17:14, May 9, 2005 (UTC)

"Conclaving" of Contestants
I just cleaned up some of the wording in the "On to Hollywood" section, and the information on conclaving seems a bit suspect. Does anyone know the actual rules for contestants at this stage? Doe it make more sense just to eliminate this section?

Additional articles
Should the well-known eliminated semifinalists (and other well-known contestants) have articles as well?


 * Only if enough can be said about them to make a legitimate article. That doesn't include pure stats like where they auditioned, how old there were, where they were from and when they were eliminated.  I'd say that'd eliminate about 99% of them.


 * BTW, sign your posts. You can do this with 3 or 4 tildes (  or ~ ).  The latter is preferred since it also adds a time stamp.   &mdash; Frecklefoot | Talk 14:26, May 24, 2005 (UTC)

Move to delete
This is not informative nor educational, and wikipedia doesn't have the space to spare to use on pointless pop culture.


 * Speak for yourself. I haven't heard of Wikipedia being anywhere near running out of server space, and American Idol, as "pointless" as it may be on a larger cultural scale, is of some significance and interest to contemporary American pop culture.  *Dan* 23:49, May 26, 2005 (UTC)


 * Second User:Dtobias. Wikipedia is not paper. If you simply feel you must nominate it for deletion, follow the proper procedure outlined at WP:VFD. Hermione1980 00:00, 27 May 2005 (UTC)


 * I object, the public has the right to know about American Idol because it has gained an important place in television history. It has helped discover unknown talented people and there are indeed other articles on this site that pertain to pop culture. Sfufan2005 00:09, May 27, 2005 (UTC)


 * Since when is pop culture pointless? ;-)  &mdash; Frecklefoot | Talk 13:51, May 27, 2005 (UTC)
 * That's the funniest thing I've ever heard. Pop culture pointless? Then what's the point of this site? -- Riffsyphon1024 15:00, Jun 24, 2005 (UTC)

Questions from Germany
1)Did Ruben Studdard ever have a #1 single? 2) Did anyone who took part in American Idol (not including the winners) have a #1 single? Greetings from Germany --slg 14:32, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * No and no. Mike H (Talking is hot) 14:14, 28 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Kimberley Locke's singles Up On the Housetop(US AC) and 8th World Wonder(Billboard) were. 66.177.3.102 22:49, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Criticisms
Should some common criticisms of American Idol also be included? One may be the voting process of American Idol, in which people are allowed to vote as many times as they wish (not sure if this has changed).

Some other common criticisms may be that no winner of American Idol has ever been a rapper or a rock singer, or many other styles of singing; although, Bo Bice did come close.


 * If they can be added in a NPOV manner, sure.  &mdash; Frecklefoot | Talk 14:13, July 28, 2005 (UTC)


 * I would think the most common criticism would be rigging of the contest. Does FOX publicly announce (or make available) the exact poll results? 'Cause I have yet to meet a person who wasn't pissed that Bice lost. --Zeromaru 02:44, 15 September 2005 (UTC)


 * There are always some people that are pissed that their favorite lost. I'm sure it was close with Bice and Underwood, but the results said that Underwood won.  I'm sure many people were pissed that Aiken didn't win and that Fantasia did.  That just happens.   &mdash; Frecklefoot | Talk 15:05, 15 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Many debate that the Aiken/Studdard results were due in part to the limitations of the phone lines. 139.62.222.225 00:21, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

American Idol 5 to be delayed until March or April 2006?
Should FOX delay American Idol until march or April of 2006 because of the upcoming Winter Olympics in Turin? That is a good idea the viewers should appreciate and enjoy watching the 2006 Winter Olympics first before watching American Idol.


 * Should they? Not in my opinion. Will they? Probably not. Should we be discussing this on an article talk page? Definitely not. Hermione1980 19:27, 12 September 2005 (UTC)


 * AFAIK, the show is scheduled to start in January as usual. The Olympics won't really affect American Idol, as they are not on FOX and it is overnight in Turin when it airs. CrazyC83 03:43, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Idol is sacrilege
Have any notable criticisms been made, on religious grounds, of the name "Idol"? Any criticisms of the materialism which some might see as promoted by the show? --Dpr 06:58, 28 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Not that I've heard of. People have been referring to people they admire/aspire to as their "idols" for at least 20 years or so (from my memory), but probably longer.  The use of "idol" in American Idol is using that sense of the word, not using it as "this is a pagan god you should worship" sense.  I don't think anyone thinks that they are.  If some religious leaders came out against the use of the word, they'd just make themselves look foolish and ill-informed.


 * As far as the second question goes, I don't know. I haven't heard anything, but it wouldn't surprise me.   &mdash; Frecklefoot | Talk 15:17, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

That is why places such as the Middle East refer to their version as SuperStar, to prevent any criticism for worshipping a technically false pagan. ZlatkoT 22:51, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Peer review for article on contestant
I am not a Constantine fanatic but I admit it's probably one of the most well-written (or well-developed) articles I have seen on wikipedia about an American Idol contestant. What do you think? Peer review/Constantine Maroulis/archive1 --User:Lehla 14:40, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

American Idol viewers in Mexico
How come they don't broadcast American Idol in Mexico? It is shown as far in the Philippines, Japan, UK, Canada and Australia. Would it be nice if the Mexican viewers see American Idol?


 * Would it be? I don't know, I don't live in Mexico. Why don't they? I don't know, I don't work at Fox. Should we be discussing this here? I know this, we shouldn't be. H e rmione1980 22:08, 4 November 2005 (UTC)


 * As far as I know, Pan-Latin Idol (working title) has been licensed (no network has been released) however I don't know if it will include Mexico, details are yet to come. ZlatkoT 22:53, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Navigation?
On all the season 4 pages st the bottom I added a navigation for easy access. People could come on here and want to read about the season 4 top 12 contestants and instead of pressing the back button on their browser they can click the next person's name.

It's just for the 11 runner-ups. The people who made it far enough to survive the semi-finals but not far enough to win the title. --User:Lehla 13:52, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Karaoke?
"The show is a karaoke competition in which viewers can call in and vote on contestants to determine the best "undiscovered" young singer in the United States". American Idol is not a karaoke competition, since they use real musicians, particularly in the semifinals and finals, not some music machine with lyrics playing in the background. And second, the singers who do make it there are TOO good for karaoke. (Crazychap)


 * No-one's too good for kareoke! Rich  Farmbrough 22:05, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Eh?
"Each contestant gets a contract with one of Bertelsmann's many music labels because Bertelsmann owns half of Sony BMG" Is this correct? The contract bit, I mean... Rich  Farmbrough 22:06, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
 * It can't be, several past Idols have released under different labels including Tamyra Gray, Nikki McKibbin & Jasmine Trias. It seems only the winner & runner up of each season has released through SonBMG/RCA. ZlatkoT 22:55, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

onlyidol website rip-off
Thought you'd want to know that this guy-- only idol--is claiming this work as his own, and even posting a copyright notice! -Jmh123 15:03, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Didn't go to the link, but if he is indeed ripping it off and posting a copyright notice and not giving Wikipedia credit, a polite email may be in order. H e rmione1980 21:23, 16 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I did send an e-mail at the same time I posted this. A few changes were made, but he is not yet fully compliant with Wikipedia expectations in this regard. I found another site on which he is also posting the same articles, and, as in the first case, collecting on quite extensive advertising.  I'll continue to pursue this -Jmh123 02:39, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Splitting the seasons
Since this page is getting long, should the seasons be split off into separate articles? CrazyC83 04:48, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
 * ::sigh:: I think this has been brought up at least three other times. Can we get on with splitting it, already? I know, sofixit, but I don't have time ATM. H e rmione1980 21:25, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

William Hung
no william hung? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.36.8.144 (talk &bull; contribs).
 * He has his own article: William Hung -- MisterHand 23:45, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

List of songs performed on American Idol
I've made an observation on the talk page and would appreciate wider input. Thanks, H e rmione1980 23:51, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

"Controversy" section
I replaced the "controversy" section. If someone wants to rename or edit it, I won't complain. But I think that at the very least this article should include at least some reference to the criticism that American Idol has received. I don't think these pages are intended primarily as a place for fan gushing. -- Andrew Parodi 17:34, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

"Controversy" section:


 * At the beginning of the 2006 season, American Idol garnered some controversy with regard to alleged homophobic comments made by talent judges. GLAAD has posted a statement on their website complaining about said statements.


 * American Idol has also been criticized for its judgment processes. It has been alleged that American Idol willingly builds up the expectations of many singers who they know would not truly have a chance at winning the competition. Prior to meeting with the three main judges of the show, Paula, Randy, and Simon, singers must undergo auditions with other judges who act as prescreeners for the three main judges. It is alleged that these prescreening judges allow many untalented singers to pass through to the main three judges merely in an attempt to exploit them for entertainment purposes. By passing them through an initial prescreening audition process, the prescreening judges often give untalented singers the impression that they have talent. These singers then assume they are in fact talented singers who may have a chance at winning the competition. When Randy, Paula, and Simon, then tell these untalented singers that they are in fact untalented, the singers are shocked and the stage is set for the emotional breakdowns that are sometimes aired on the show. Some critics have questioned the ethics of this practice.


 * American Idol has also come under fire for maintaining what some claim to be total control of the careers of the winners of the contest. Former cohost Brian Dunkleman referred to the show as "owning" the winning contestants, noting that winners sign contracts to only record with companies owned by the show's producers and to allow related agencies to manage their careers.

-- Andrew Parodi 17:34, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

With relation to controversy, I vaguely recall reading somewhere some grumbling over the fact that only vocal talents qualify, leaving musicians (particularly instrumentalists) out in the cold. I can't for the life of me remember where I saw this so I can't add it. Does anyone else recall seeing something like this? Didn't one of the shows (American or Canadian Idol) actually address this by allowing its contestants to play instruments during a round? 23skidoo 17:51, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject American Idol (or WikiProject Idol series)
Should it be initiated? I think it should, to better organize and create more information here, including many new articles and features. CrazyC83 06:19, 3 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree. PMLF 23:25, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Isn't this a little mean?
Isn't it a little mean to have a picture of Tessie Mae Reid on this article? dposse 01:49, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Impossible to add links?
Why is it that everytime someones ads a few links to this page in particular they are deleted? Is there someone from the official site or that listed forum here that deleted other links? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 58.84.73.80 (talk • contribs).


 * We have a set of guidelines on external links. Have a look at those for a better understanding. Based on those guidelines, in an article like this one, the preferred links are to the official site and "a link to one major fansite". There may be scope for other links but they would need to fit within the guidelines. -- Barrylb 00:54, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

It's interesting to read that page of guidelines. It seems quite open to the subjective views of those that moderate page edits. Given that other pages on Wikipedia have more than 1 link to a "one major fan site" and that the fan site on this page is not one (it's actually a discussion forum only with no original articles or other original content) it seems that the guidelines need to be strengthened. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 58.84.73.80 (talk • contribs).


 * If you have a problem with the guidelines, please feel free to bring it up on that particular discussion page. However, I would like to remidn you that Spam advises you to "review your intentions. Wikipedia is not a space for the promotion of products, Web sites, fandoms, ideologies, or other memes." The whole of sites such as http://american.idolblog.com/ (which is currently being added to many pages and needs to be removed..) is original research and unchecked claims made by individuals with no interest in NPOV. Therefore, it is completely unencyclopedic to include such referances on a commercial site (see ad content). If any editor disagrees that this site is being spammed and is inappropriate for American Idol entries, then I encourage you to take that discussion up. Keep an eye out for these edits from User:202.154.146.202. - WesleyPinkham 23:27, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

It's really no big problem but the topic was mentioned in case others find it difficult to add external links in future and hopefully they'll check here first. The Wikipedia:External_links guidelines state that fan listings, for example, should not be generally be included yet look at any page on Wikipedia devoted to a TV show like Desperate Housewives for example and there they are. You'll see fanlistings and other inappropriate links regularly. Strange how they all made it past moderators but the point about NPOV answers the question so this discussion was useful and much appreciated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.84.75.228 (talk • contribs)


 * I will be looking at the Desperate Housewives page with a view to cleaning it up. Clearly the editors on that page are not doing their job. -- Barrylb 21:50, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Well that's what was meant about the subjective nature of the guidelines. As previously stated you'll find inappropriate links in many places on Wikipedia from the Big Brother USA page to The Young and The Restless page to whichever page you like. They're all there so it is to be hoped that by raising the point (and receiving the reply about NPOV) that others will see this and learn why it's difficult to get linked here or anywhere else. This just happens to be a popular topic currently and a good place to mention it. It's a most insightful discussion topic indeed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.84.71.132 (talk • contribs)


 * Enjoy the freedom that is Wikipedia. If you notice these kinds of links, remove them with a reference back to Wiki:spam. WesleyPinkham 21:50, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Encyclopedia writing style
Is a seventy-seven word opening sentence appropriate for an encyclopedia article? soverman 20:57 10 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I've trimmed down the opening sentence, although the rest of the intro still needs work. -- MisterHand 21:08, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Category:ITV television programmes
Somebody just added this commentary to the article. Can somebody confirm whether or not this show is actually shown on ITV (American Idol as opposed to Pop Idol). -- MisterHand 18:52, 17 March 2006 (UTC)


 * American Idol is shown on ITV2 at 7:00pm on Sunday then shown sometimes on ITV1. Or see here ITV2 Programmes London UK 19:03, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Decade themes: decade or decade in music?
For last week's theme, music from the 1950's, I can't help but wonder if it'd be more fitting to link to 1950s in music, rathern than 1950s. Can we reach a quick consensus on this? WesleyPinkham 21:52, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Time Zone Questions
I have a question about time zones, I don't understand why they have the show in Hollywood but they don't use the Western Time Zone. Is there so much East coast bias that the show can only be live on the East Coast when it is filmed on the West Coast? Why don't they just show the show at 6:00 on the west coast, and 9:00 on the east coast and have it really be live everywhere insead of tape-delayed where it is filmed?


 * Barely anyone is home to watch anything at 6:00pm. And if the show aired live at 9:00pm west coast time, east coast viewers would have to wait until midnight. Idol isn't the only show that does that, Academy Awards and most other shows do it too. It's a fact of life, want to watch it live ... move. lol. HeyNow10029 20:55, 31 March 2006 (UTC)