Talk:American Idol season 15

Show Changes
The show changes needs to be reworded to create an actual paragraph. I just pasted the old info there for right now. Jfred90 (talk) 03:55, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Spoilers/Posting Results and Spoilers Prior to Show Airing
I have a question/concern about editors posting results and possible spoilers prior to the airing of the episode(s). Notably, the top 10 results have kept being posted despite the show being live for fan votes. I am aware that aspects of it will be taped, but I am not sure if this should be included. I have searched other Idol spoiler sites (American Idol Net, The Idol Pad) and have found no such information on any spoilers or contestant song choices. Further to this, there have been 2 different "results" posted in the past few days. Both have different songs listed and different advancing contestants. I question whether Mackenzie Bourg is genuinely singining "Hokey Pokey".

Could I have assistance on this matter?

ChristopherH1995 (talk) 07:34, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

Elimination Chart
Channel1235, I see what you're saying, but in the past it was based on who had the highest votes that week. This season and last season, for the early ones they call them out in no particular order. What if we did it like this instead?

Since they did advance. And it would maintain consistency with previous season?

Controversy
Please stop adding opinion of a single person into controversy section. It is not a controversy when it is just a person having a rant. Hzh (talk) 21:41, 29 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Hzh, I completely agree with you. The two incidents are in no way controversies and are not even encylopedic. One is Clay Aiken simply complaining that the judges are boring. Big deal. The other is some guy for tvline.com complaining about viewers not being able to vote until later in the season, and includes an unbelievably long quote from the guy. Again, big deal. Each is simply one person ranting their opinion. They are very minor issues. Therefore, I removed the content. Every season of this show, and shows like it, brings about lots of complaints from lots of people about lots of random issues. But like most criticisms, these ones simply aren't important enough to be included in an encylopedia. Dirroli (talk) 05:41, 31 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Yes, I would agree that a single person complaining is not encyclopedic or relevant, unless that person is directly involved (e.g. as contestant) in this season. I have therefore no problem with the Clay Aiken entry being removed as well. Hzh (talk) 20:08, 31 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Sounds good. Clay Aiken calling the judges boring is actually one of the mildest criticisms I've ever heard about the judges over the years. Complaints about the judges in previous seasons were much worse, yet most of them weren't even notable enough to include in an encylopedia. And if we were to include Aiken calling them boring, are we then also going to include some other former contestant calling them exciting? No, because it's trivial either way. This is not a gossip site or a blog. Dirroli (talk) 21:28, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

Mariah/Nicki performance
Is this performance really happening, or was he just joking? I can't tell, so I dont know if we should include this in the article yet. Im pretty sure Mariah will be in Europe for her tour on the finale night....so it doesnt really make sense. --EvanWesley (talk) 14:37, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Sarcasm! ;) The source says, "Lythgoe can't avoid a bit of impish humor involving a certain pair of divas, former judges Mariah Carey and Nicki Minaj, who famously clashed during their shared 2013 tenure... I've invited them back to the finale to sing 'That's What Friends Are For'". Dirroli (talk) 05:18, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

Changes to structure and content
Please avoid unnecessary changes to the structure and content of the article. There is for example no need to split the regional audition section. Much of the information is unsourced and confusing, the result is just a mess. Hzh (talk) 08:49, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

The edits give equal weight to the bus tour and the major audition venue, which is completely wrong. The bus tour was a minor addition to the major audition venues this season, unlike Season 16 where they have largely done away with the stadium auditions. Hzh (talk) 09:54, 13 April 2018 (UTC)


 * It actually does not give equal weight, because the "major" cities are additionally listed in the televised auditions table. During the preliminary auditions, the bus cities and "major" cities are essentially the same, except that larger venues are booked for the "major" cities and are used more for crowd shots.  It is basically semantics.  By the time that bus cities were introduced around season 12 or 13, turnouts in the "major" cities had dropped and the numbers are really not all that different from the bus cities.  It's semantics, basically.  I do agree that they should be distinguished, which is why I linked note B to all of the bus cities.American Idol Maniac (talk) 10:14, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
 * It is hardly semantics. The major audition venues may have many thousands, sometimes many tens of thousands in the earlier seasons, of people auditioning.  Even in the Season 15, they were still expecting thousands of people in a single major venue - . The bus tour stops usually deal with a few hundreds e.g., at most a thousand or so. There was still a big difference in scale. There were crowd shots at the major venues because there were enough people there, whereas in the bus tour stops there were often not enough people to get a good crowd shot, some of the pictures I've seen of bus tour show not even a hundred people.  You are making assertions and assumptions not supported by sources. Hzh (talk) 10:32, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

It was a matter of branding since the judges only travel to a handful of cities. The first round of major cities and bus cities are equivalent. Those who advance via the bus tour are merely funneled into the handful of televised cities for subsequent rounds. Those who try out at one of the bus stops and those who try at a major city have the same amount of rounds that they must survive before the celebrity judges. Obviously, the major cities averaged more than the bus cities and there were cities (both major and bus) that had pathetic turnouts in the later years. I recall Indianapolis, a "mere bus city", having estimates around 6,000 for season 15. I was there myself. Over the years, I've been to numerous auditions with a varying turnouts and I can tell you the crowd shots can be deceiving. There absolutely have been some bus cities that have had larger turnouts than major cities: http://fox59.com/2015/06/25/thousands-audition-downtown-for-final-season-of-american-idol/ Regardless, I believe you are too focused on the turnout size, rather than the process itself. Round 1 is always the same, whether it is a bus city or a major city. It's an almost arbitrary distinction, really.American Idol Maniac (talk) 15:32, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
 * It is not arbitrary when some stops get only a few hundred people, which is not the case with major stadium auditions. Some seasons some the stops barely featured in the show, if at all, therefore it makes no sense to make them as prominent as the major auditions. There is also no reason to try to change the earlier seasons, given that the earlier seasons usually have a single audition venue each episode. Don't try to force consistency when the seasons themselves are not consistent. Hzh (talk) 16:02, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

You are too focused on the turnout. The fact is that the bus cities happened and they were one of the cities offered to audition in. They have certainly expanded in recent seasons but they are not that ridiculous of an amount that they can't be included. The page is about more than just the viewers' experience. It should include all the audition dates and venues. As it is, the table is not all about the televised auditions, anyways, since the initial cattle call dates and venues are included, which frankly have very little to do with the finished product on the television screens. The major audition cities would still be more prominent since they would comprise the televised auditions table, as well. Even many of the earlier seasons' audition cities shared episodes, etc. It's merely increased the last few seasons. Saying that the seasons are not consistent is a silly excuse. Of course the show has changed. I do not know why you are so against the bus cities. It is very absurd. Perhaps you do not like how I formatted it or something, fair enough. However, there needs to be a way for the information to be included and you are not offering any suggestions.American Idol Maniac (talk) 16:25, 13 April 2018 (UTC)


 * All the relevant information are there, it's only audition dates that's really missing for the bus tour stops. It's really not so important that you need to make a separate large table that looks clunky. There was also no source for the audition supposedly held at the finale, so why add that? The original table shows which were the important audition venues, and splitting it up would ruin that as well as unnecessarily duplicating the city.  If you feel the information needs adjusting, then you can, e.g. shared episodes, although when all or nearly all the auditions are from one city in the early seasons, it makes absolutely no sense to change. Hzh (talk) 18:09, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

The other audition dates and venues absolutely are relevant...that's the entire point. A complete listing of the audition location for each season is one of the most essential sets of information. It needs to be preserved and accessible for future reference. You keep saying it needs to be discussed but your responses are quite stubborn as you have not suggested any alternative ways to present the information. The auditions did happen at the season 14 finale...it was promoted on the official social media and, if I recall, on night 1 of the finale broadcast itself, encouraging those living near the Los Angeles area to audition at next day's finale. Here is a Tweet from American Idol's Twitter account, as well as a video of the crowd taken by a reporter. https://twitter.com/AmericanIdol/status/598253860805718016 https://twitter.com/LaurenVictory/status/598554341415354368 I'm not just making things up... Bus cities produced a large number of eventual finalists/semi-finalists. They are the new normal. There's seriously no reason to omit them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by American Idol Maniac (talk • contribs) 19:26, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I have already given the reason why the original table should be kept as it is and what you can change, if you want to add the date of the tour date, add a small compact table for that, rather than create a large table that exaggerates its significance. I'm dubious as to the significance of the dates anyway, given that the tour bus auditions were hardly ever shown apart from a brief glimpse. Don't overstate the significance of such minor details, it is hardly essential, wikipedia is not a depository of minor details per WP:INDISCRIMINATE. Hzh (talk) 19:47, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

Use of "white male", "WGWG", etc.
Please do not insert these into the lede, as this violates WP:NPOV by putting a spin on the race of the contestants or their style of music (where there have been criticisms/complaints leveled at the show for these kinds of winners - and my saying that comes unsourced, so another reason to keep it out). I'm not even sure "eighth male winner in nine years" would be appropriate if singling out genders, but making note that a female hasn't won the show but once in nine years seems less non-neutral than indicating that a minority/black/non-guitar-playing contestant hasn't won (but once in nine years, keeping in mind Candice Glover was that lone winner who fits all those characteristics). MPFitz1968 (talk) 17:40, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

Top 6 duets/solos presentation
On all previous seasons where duets and solos were in the same week, there was one table for all of the performances and numbered as such. This season was different in that the duets were all performed first and then the solos were performed. An IP editor keeps splitting the one table into two tables with the duets in one and the solos in the other and has been asked numerous times to gain a consensus on the talk page. I finally decided to start a discussion here.

Having one table keeps the season in line with the consensus found on other season articles to have one table. Having one table shows that La'Porsha's performance was the fifth performance of the night and not just the first solo performance that a reader would have to guess came after the duets. The IP editor concern in their edit summaries is Lee and Avalon were eliminated and did not perform a solo. There has always been a note below the table(s) talking about their solos and eliminations, which the IP editor has left with the two tables, so that negates the reasoning for splitting them if the explanations were still left in the article. As there has been no consensus for this change, I am going to revert back to the one table presentation and if consensus is found here for two tables, it can then be changed. Aspects (talk) 04:17, 15 September 2019 (UTC)


 * I wanted two tables, it's fine that way. Lee and Avalon were eliminated, and we don't need them in one table. Thank You. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:401:C401:9850:ADDB:C4C8:74CC:8918 (talk) 19:27, 15 September 2019 (UTC)


 * WP:ILIKEIT argument is insufficient to establish a convention that currently goes against WP:CONSENSUS. Get more editors to side with you, and perhaps there's a chance. The current precedent, as mentions, is the case in other articles in this series. MPFitz1968 (talk) 19:31, 15 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Would anyone like to side with me? I think it's better to have 2 tables for the Top 6, because Lee and Avalon performed in the duets, and in the solos, they performed a solo and then were eliminated. I like it my way, because I like how Lee and Avalon are in a Duets table, but not in the Solo table for the Top 6. Is this better? Let me know. Thank You!