Talk:American Idol season 8/Archive 3

Elimination tags
ON the wildcard contestants I think it would be more necessary if we put 'ELim' in their respective semi final groups instead of 'WC'.. 'cause they were eliminated Frazzler9 (talk) 12:19, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
 * They weren't ultimately eliminated during their first performance during the Top 36 semi-finals, they were eliminated during Wild Card week, and that is already indicated on the chart. Do not change this, or it will be reverted. Gage (talk) 12:31, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Matt
I have moved Matt on the elimination chart in Lil rounds position as he would technically be the one eliminated and also he did recieve the least amount of votes. Obviously he will be moved if he doesn't get eliminated its just for now lets keep him there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Frazzler9 (talk • contribs) 13:07, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Or not. Quit trying to make changes, so that you can feel relevent. None of these changes to the chart are at all sensical, nor should they ever even be considered, just stop. Gage (talk) 14:13, 19 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm not just making these changes to feel significant. It makes perfect sense. The contestants are put in order of their elimination. Until the next 2 get eliminated, Matt should be next to Scott as he would've been eliminated if the Judges hadn't exercised their elimination veto. Chill out... Frazzler9 (talk) 15:23, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
 * He wasn't eliminated, he was saved by the judges, and that should be reflected on the chart. Gage (talk) 21:06, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Alexis Grace
Why doesn't she have an article!!! All top 12 finalists have one what makes her the exception !!! Frazzler9 (talk) 20:18, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
 * There was already a big debate over this one over a month ago, and the deletionists won that one...good luck campaigning for hers to be recreated, as I doubt an 11th place finish for a contestant (whose article was already deleted for alleged lack of notability) would merit enough notability for recreation. If anything, they would probably argue that Jorge and Jasmine were even less notable due to their placement and their articles would be brought up for deletion as well.  Yes, it sucks...but I'd just leave it alone...just my opinion.Cespence17 (talk) 18:52, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Even if Alexis Grace does not have an article, as a finalist, she should have a short bio in this article. Alexis Grace redirects here, but there is no information on her here other than her placing on the show.--Yolgnu (talk) 12:40, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I concur with this. At least the other finalists, or most of them, have bios on the main AI page. We should take an example from Australian Idol. The ones without individual pages have short bios on the season's main article, while the more popular ones (i.e. Cosima DeVito and Shannon Noll, et al.) are merely linked to their individual articles. Unless/Until Grace manages to do something from her career, such as an album after the contract runs out, where we could consider recreating it, I think she and the semifinalists are worthy of brief synopses.--Cinemaniac86Oy_gevalt. 04:43, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Wildcard/advanced
I have changed the abbreviation 'WC' to Wildcard and changed top 13 to 'advanced'. I have done this because up untill the wildcard show they were advancing to the top 12 not top 13 so advanced sounds better and makes more sense Frazzler9 (talk) 13:25, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Ann Marie On Elimination Chart
Someone has changed it to Ann-Marie which is incorrect. Its ANN MARIE. There is nothing in between the two words lol. I wish people would stop changing it - its been Ann Marie, Anne Marie and Ann-Marie now. ANN MARIE BOSKOVICH ;) I would change it, but I dont have an account at the moment! :) (82.16.171.228 (talk) 22:30, 21 April 2009 (UTC))


 * Done. --Jackieboy87 (talk · contribs) 22:35, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

elimination chart
I like this table as it's easier to see who the wild card acts are who get selected plus the current table is misleading as it seems like on that night the judges chose the wild card contenders when really they debated over the whole 3 shows. Frazzler9 (talk) 16:19, 22 April 2009 (UTC)


 * The current table is not misleading, it shows that some contestants were advanced to the wild card round and then some of the those contestants were advanced to the Top 13. I would advise in the future, since it seems all of your changes get quickly reverted by other editors, to not only start a discussion but waiting until other people respond before you change the charts. Aspects (talk) 17:57, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Definitely Not!!! That is too confusing. -- JPSinger45 (talk) 22:35, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
 * How do you know that they debated over all 3 shows? Where's the proof? And besides that, the colors you picked are jarring. --User:Woohookitty Diamming fool! 11:49, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Something to watch for
This is going to be just like Jorge and Jasmine. There is no "12th" or "13th". It's 6-7 this week no matter what order they are given UNLESS Ryan gives a placing. --User:Woohookitty Diamming fool! 01:35, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Exactly. This is gonna be funny to see people try to justify reasons why Lil or Anoop had more votes when they have no proof. Most likely, whether she had the least or second least, she was eliminated first because it was more obvious, whereas Anoop had the pimp spot and had good feedback, more or less, for the past three weeks.


 * But again, to any who question the "6-7", "12-13", or even Season 6's "5-6", unless Ryan specifies, it's not fact. You could argue Lil was higher on Dial Idol and is therefore higher in votes. You could argue Anoop had more votes from performing last, and has a bigger fanbase. You could argue Jorge made the finals immediately, whereas Jasmine was thrust in via Wild Card. You could argue Jasmine performed better than he did. There are all sorts of arguments, but basically, the point is: On Wikipedia, they're pretty much all moot.--Cinemaniac86Oy_gevalt. 15:22, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Yep. And you can add to that semi-finals of years past where users were obsessed with putting placings on the eliminated contestants. People read so much into these things. We'll never know who finished 6th or 7th this week. I'm not even sure we can be certain that Allison was bottom 3 given that Ryan never used those terms. He said "in danger of elimination". Well they all are. :) --User:Woohookitty Diamming fool! 08:06, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, that tricky dicky. I wouldn't be surprised if Matt was actually in the Bottom 3, and they were keeping him as "safe" so his votes wouldn't spike this week, or if Danny was B3, but kept out in order to ensure a "shock elimination" (Jesus, seriously, take that wheel <3). But I digress, haha. And I remember the semi-finalists nonsense (so glad it's impossible to do that this year ^_^). I think I recall specifically people trying to list Danny Noriega as solely 13th, or always listing Kristy/Amanda/Chikezie as B2/B3 in the semis, even though Kady Malloy was the only person ever noted with that stigma. It doesn't really make much sense to rank one gender above another while neither were voted against the other. That was just all kinds of silly.--Cinemaniac86Oy_gevalt. 05:07, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Chart error?
I have no idea why the chart is spacing anything that is edited into two rows, which now has isolated itself into Allison Iraheta, Jorge Nunez, and Scott MacIntyre's rows. I have tried multiple times to get the chart to put it onto one row, but I have no idea what caused it. Anyone else know? Gage (talk) 02:04, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay, I was able to isolate into only Iraheta's row, but am still unsure on how to fix it. Gage (talk) 02:21, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I see no problem with Allison's, Jorge's and Scott's rows before you made your edit, nor any problem with Allison's row now. Could you please be a little more specific what the problem is? Aspects (talk) 02:26, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Alright, I think it was just something on my end. I see no problems anymore. Thanks. Gage (talk) 02:30, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Other performances
Do others think like I do that we should ditch the "Pre-recorded" or "Live performance" part. The sourcing is so spotty and you can't really tell by watching the show. It can look live but could've been taped the night before the performance. We can't know and it's hard to source. --User:Woohookitty Diamming fool! 04:59, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Agree totally...I was always kinda baffled as to where people were getting their sources on what was taped and what was live. And really, I don't see how it's significant knowing whether it was pre-taped or live...it all airs at the same time.Cespence17 (talk) 13:37, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
 * There are many articles (the best source would be MJs Big Blog, who gets official word from either Ryan's radio show or various press releases from Fox PRs) which stipulate who is taping a performance for a future results show (i.e. Miley Cyrus, Kanye West) and who will be live. Also, the simpler way to determine this is when you see the contestants (as was the case with, among others, Stevie Wonder and David Archuleta) either cheering on the singer in the same frame or, like last night, they engage in conversation with the Idols. (And also, you'll notice that for the taped performances, the judges are not there--because it's done during dress rehearsals. When it's live, the judges are always present--because it would be a poor showing of character for them to be "on break".) I think there's enough proof either way to verify live or taped =).--Cinemaniac86Oy_gevalt. 15:15, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm just leery of MJs Big Blog when they quote other blogs. Just seems so fancrufty. --User:Woohookitty Diamming fool! 09:49, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

By the way why are you removing Katy from the other performances chart? It is confirmed that she's performing on the 13th of May with the song Waking Up In Vegas. So leave it as it is, alright. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Phyrhone (talk • contribs) 00:02, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Question: Does PRE-RECORDED mean the VOCALS (lip-syncing) or the PERFORMANCE (video and audio) was pre-recorded??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.237.226.64 (talk) 01:40, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Jorge 13th place
On the top 13 results show even though Jazza had been eliminated first Ryan said to Jorge.. u recieved the least amount of votes so jorge is 13th jazza 12th Frazzler9 (talk) 14:17, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Was it when Jorge was standing there with Anoop? Because the "least amount of votes" could refer to Jorge's total when compared to Anoop's. So, we still don't know for sure who had fewest votes, and speculating isn't the answer.  Let's keep it as 12-13 for those two, and avoid changing it every few days.  --Mtjaws (talk) 14:32, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * There is no way to know which of them had the lowest votes overall that night since it was not said. Since Jasmine was eliminated first that night she is in the lower position but listed as 12-13 just as Lil is for 6-7. I have reverted the order back to the way it was. Aspects (talk) 16:21, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

green elimination chart
On some idol charts the safe boxes are light green instead of white so i'm just gonna try it out and see what I and u guys think.. feel free to change it back Frazzler9 (talk) 16:35, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I quite like it Frazzler9 (talk) 16:35, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * You keep adding color to charts just to add color. The light green, or any other color for that matter, is not needed.  Not every block in a chart in an elimination grid needs to be filled with color.  Once again I ask that you start discussing changes on a talk page and waiting for other users to respond to the changes before you actually make them, since most of these changes get reverted. I have changed the colors back to nothing unless consensus is found here for them to be light green. Aspects (talk) 16:52, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok fine but I want a favour from you. I will make discussions on the talk page about any of my big edits if you can make an elimination chart for the pop idol page. The pop idol page has seasons 1 and 2 on it. I want a chart for season 2 first. You have all the top 12 information but not the semi finals but if your willing to do it then tell me and i'll send u the semi final information. --Frazzler9 (talk) 17:06, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, I have an idea! How about you just stop editing. Period. Gage (talk) 01:22, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I see no reason to make the blank boxes green. Just like I see no reason to color-code the Btm3/Btm2/Elim when Seacrest has been making those distictions (And btw theres a 3-2 consesus to change them all back to palegoldenrod). MarkMc1990 (talk) 01:27, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * There's a distinction about this? Because I think it's rather stupid and would like to contribute my vote against this racist practice of removing the varied colors =).--Cinemaniac86Oy_gevalt. 04:40, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The discussion is taking place here. MarkMc1990 (talk) 04:53, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Jasmine 13th pick or megan
http://mjsbigblog.com/2009/03/ here is the url to MJSBIGBLOG which has a radio interview with paula baout the wildcard picks.. she says that anoop and matt and 1 of the girls were first picked which then makes either megan or jasmine the 13th pick... go on this website and go to page 11 in the march archive. it has it there Frazzler9 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 17:49, 26 April 2009 (UTC).
 * I think we need to remove all reference to the "13th pick". it's much like the placings in 2 elimination weeks. I don't think it means much. --User:Woohookitty Diamming fool! 04:56, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * ^Seconded. Every fan will chime in to insist their preferred Idol was more of a sure thing. The only reason it's worth mentioning Anoop is because, on the show, he was the 13th inductee. Hence, it's only worth mentioning for consistency of events....


 * Even though I'm pretty sure Jasmine was the most disposable =).--Cinemaniac86Oy_gevalt. 05:18, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Elimination Chart, Wild Cards
On The elimination chart, the contestants who were the top 3 vote recipients in their respective semi final group advanced. On the chart that contestants semi final performance block is labelled 'Top 13'. For the wild card show the contestants who advanced are still labelled 'Top 13' and in the same colour.. I think this information is misleading as it gives off the false impression that on the wild card show the public voted. I think there must be another colour for the wild card picks who advanced to the top 13. Frazzler9 (talk) 16:15, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

}} Frazzler9 (talk) 16:08, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Now I udnerstand that an argument against this could be the repetition of yellow colours which is why I have replaced the WC blocks with ELim as they were eliminated at that point. They weren't in the top 3 of there groups and they were selected as wildcards on the results show of the 3rd semi final group so I don't see why it says WC Frazzler9 (talk) 16:17, 27 April 2009 (UTC)


 * The problem is that there is nothing saying the WC people were chosen by the public so I don't get the changes. Garynine (talk) 20:01, 29 April 2009 (UTC)


 * The colours mark out that the contestant was a wild card pick... The eliminations on their semi final heat shows that they were eliminated which they were... they weren't told they were in the wildcard untill the 3rd result show so they were eliminated —Preceding unsigned comment added by Frazzler9 (talk • contribs) 17:09, 2 May 2009 (UTC)


 * After months of odd suggestions and undiscussed changes by Frazzler9, I must say that this one actually makes sense to me. The four wild card singers were indeed eliminated during their semi-final weeks, but then in the wild card week, they were picked to advance to the Top 13. During their semi-final week, we didn't know at the time they would later be Wild Card participants, so it seems odd to mark them as such (WC) in that column. But, the wild card column should show they were selected for Top 13. So now, I think this suggestion by Frazzler should remain. Additionally, user Garynine mentioned above WC people being selected by the public, but that wasn't true; the judges did both parts of the wild card advancement selections.  In the article's Semi-final section, I tried to explain the process because it wasn't clear there.  I hope I have explained Frazzler's idea better, and others can see that I think this "Elim" designation makes sense to me too.  Thanks.  --Mtjaws (talk) 04:59, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You misunderstood what I wrote about the public and the wc's. I know they weren't chosen by the public but Frazzler says that without his changes people think they were but that is not true. Garynine (talk) 14:52, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Themes
Please review our standards on sourcing. Twitter is NOT an acceptable reference. Even though I'm an admin, I'm more lax on sourcing here due to the nature of the show. But there are limits. Twitter and fan blogs just aren't going to pass muster. Neither is a report from Slash on his Twitter stating that he's been asked to be a mentor for rock week when it doesn't even say WHEN rock week is. If we used standards this lax, anything would be alright. --User:Woohookitty Diamming fool! 12:05, 29 April 2009 (UTC)