Talk:American Idol season 8/Archive 4

New 'Elim' tags in the eliminatiom chart
Well.. the contestants who didn't make the top 3 in their semi final groups were eliminated. The judges didn't tell them they were in the wildcard untill the 3rd semi final group results show... So they were originally eliminated. Frazzler9 (talk) 17:19, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Just shut up. Please. Gage (talk) 08:45, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * no... my idea makes sense. Anoop wasn't told he was a wildcard pick on the first semi-final group results show! So why should it say that he was selected for the Wild Card when he was told my Ryan that he didn't make the top 3 of his group. Simple... I'm right you're wrong now shut up Frazzler9 (talk) 09:18, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * In the section three spots above this one, I agreed with this guy. I don't know why he created yet another heading for the same discussion, but he did. My comments are three headings above this one, and I actually agree with this one issue. --Mtjaws (talk) 17:38, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

My new elimination chart idea
The contestants weren't told they were in the wildcard ... they were told they didn't make the top 3... so they were eliminated... another variation of this chart could be:

The WC showing that they were the wildcard picks and didn't make the top 13 due to public votes... Frazzler9 (talk) 09:30, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

New chart
On the elimination chart it says 'Elim' instead of 'WC' on the contestants respective semi final heat. It now says 'WC' on the wild card show on contestants who advanced. Do you think it should say 'Top 13' instead of 'WC'? Well if you think it should then the top 13 must be in the wild card yellow colour as they didn't invance due to public vote. Frazzler9 (talk) 09:39, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I think it should say "Top 13" in that Wild Card column. I only get one vote, and others can disagree, but Frazzler shouldn't keep changing it based on any one vote. Just leave it for now. And, please stop making new sections on this talk page when they are all about the same issue. Talk it over in one, and then people would know where to look and reply.  --Mtjaws (talk) 14:30, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * People who were the wild card choices were also in the top 13. All you have to do is really look at the chart and that is obvious. All the people in the top 13 should be labeled as being in the top 13. Garynine (talk) 14:47, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Elimination colour
I like the new colour scheme for the btm2/3 but I don't like the use of the yellow for the 'Eliminated' blocks. It is too similar to the wildcard colours so i'm going to try something new Frazzler9 (talk) 15:09, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I have changed it and I think it looks much better. Perhaps it would look better if it was a bit lighter 'cause we don't want it to contrast with 'btm 2' too much just enough to see a definitive difference. much better than the yellow though Frazzler9 (talk) 15:17, 4 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Can't you use the sandbox to experiment? Garynine (talk) 21:03, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * This user must always feel significant, and editing in the sandbox would not give anyone any reason to recognize that they even exist. I've reverted their edits over and over, but it seems only a block from editing will make this person realize that nothing they do adds to the chart, it just fuels edit wars. Gage (talk) 20:02, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Judges Save
I have changed the colour of the judges save. I have done this because I felt that it was too similar to the blue 'male' contestants. Frazzler9 (talk) 12:25, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

unbold
i have removed the bold from the list of performances top 13 onwards. I have done this to match the seaosn 1 - 4 articles. I want your opinion. Do you think that the names of the eliminated contestants should be bolded? In the semi final list the names of the contestants who advanced were originally bolded but I removed it to match season 1 - 4 articles. What do you guys think? Frazzler9 (talk) 18:58, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, because visually, it is more sensible to have them bolded. It allows the reader to mentally ingrain the information better.--Cinemaniac86Oy_gevalt. 22:40, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Slash
Yo since Slash is the mentor at the final 4. will he be performing a song at the results show?--Cooly123 (talk) 00:26, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * No, not by himself. And this is not a forum. Gage (talk) 01:12, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Cowell
According to Digital Spy, auditions are being held Tuesday and Wednesday, May 5 and 6, in London for the next series of The X Factor. Is Cowell not appearing in the episodes this week? If not, it should be mentioned. Matthewedwards : Chat  04:35, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well since he was at the live performance on the 5th, I'd say he's appearing. --User:Woohookitty Diamming fool! 07:32, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Auditions do not necessarily include the judges. Just as American Idol screens everyone who comes to try out through at least four rounds before the person gets to meet the judges on the show, The X Factor does the exact same thing. So unless they begin the judges round of auditions, which will likely be scheduled before his live appearance on Idol, due to the time difference, Simon will most likely still be appearing on tonight's episode.Gage (talk) 19:29, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

This week
This article can be so amazingly frustrating. Ryan CLEARLY said that the placings were random and yet we have people putting Danny in the bottom 2. Random, people. --User:Woohookitty Diamming fool! 02:19, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm surprised there hasn't been a "Top 2" fiasco regarding Allison/Danny. On their pages, it seemed to infer that they were Top 2, just 'cause they weren't Bottom 3. But all Ryan said was "this is the Bottom 3". He never said they're the Top 2--only that they're safe =).


 * So again, I agree with Woohoo. That was only arranged a certain way for shock and drama. It could be true as well, but they could be concealing it so as not to give him a boost. Ergo, we cannot assume. Only speculate.--Cinemaniac86Oy_gevalt. 22:37, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Top 3 Note?
The article currently notes that this will be the third season to have an All-Male finale (Top 2), however this is the first season where the Top 3 has been All-Male. Should this be noted? Mizery Made ( talk  ·  contribs ) 17:17, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yep. :) --User:Woohookitty Diamming fool! 02:11, 9 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Why does it say Kris Allen has been eliminated? Fix please. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.109.155.48 (talk) 02:11, 14 May 2009 (UTC)


 * It's fine now. I may have made a mistake when I first edited at the end of the show. I got it right on the chart, but thankfully someone corrected. Though I could of swore I put Danny. Oh well, it's corrected anyway. Revan46 00:48 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Chart Problems?
What's wrong with the chart? the horizontal lines have vanished. Intentional new look, or...?--Cinemaniac86Oy_gevalt. 01:07, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Which chart are you referring to? They all seem perfectly fine to me. Gage (talk) 02:07, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The Elimination Charts, but I guess it was a freak occurrence....Spooky.


 * I blame Frazzler.--Cinemaniac86Oy_gevalt. 14:45, 13 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I haven't touched the chart in a while Frazzler9 (talk) 15:44, 13 May 2009 (UTC)


 * It's a miracle. Gage (talk) 02:16, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * haha you know what.. you're a funny funny guy and btw my ideas can't tbe that crap as the semi final section on the elimination chart has been kept and who's idea was it? mine... and it makes sense ... funny funny guy Frazzler9 (talk)


 * Are you three? Gage (talk) 02:13, 16 May 2009 (UTC)


 * That was a funny joke. As for the lines, I notice that sometimes they too disappear for no reason. I think it is either a browser or loading problem, but eventually they do return. No one deletes them, but I have seen them temporarily disappear for a bit. --Mtjaws (talk) 03:58, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks :P.


 * Yeah, same. They seem to return every other time I visit the page, so that makes sense. Just one of the mysteries of Wikipedia....--Cinemaniac86Oy_gevalt. 04:29, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Listing order of performance for top 3/4
I have noticed that the performances for top 4 (duets) and top 3 are not listed in order. As said in the description for the list of performances form semi final group 1 the contestants are listed in song/performance order and to keep consistency with articles 1 - 4 then in top 3 week the performances should be displayed in order as they didn't perform both their 2 songs in one slot. Same with the duets. Frazzler9 (talk) 20:19, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * OMG, Frazzler. I actually completely 100% agree with you! I think it can be semi-misleading. If someone comes to this page intending to check the performance songs and order, they might be inclined to assume the solos were sang first and the duets second.


 * To further expand on this, it's redundant to note that the contestants each sang a solo and a duet with another contestant, then separate them as such out of order. So for Top 4 night, this is the smart way to go.


 * Furthermore, yes, Top 3's arrangement looks incredibly clumsy. If it was just the songs and artists, it might be acceptable. But because we need to specify which judge chose which song, to be perfectly honest, it looks rather stupid. So I am going to fix that now and I motion for that to be maintained.--Cinemaniac86Oy_gevalt. 07:12, 15 May 2009 (UTC)


 * One additional thing: For the Top 2, People Magazine writers were at the results show. After each Top 3 results show, the coin is immediately flipped. People reported that Kris won the coin toss and chose to go second. I will also be adding that. However, if Woohookitty or w/e other mods find that this spoiler should be kept hush on the main page, then that's cool. But since a major publication reported it, the word is definitely out there.--Cinemaniac86Oy_gevalt. 07:12, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Tatiana or Tatiana Nicole?
Just wondering, should Tatiana Del Toro actually be listed as Tatiana Nicole Del Toro, like she was when her phone number was on screen in the semi-finals. I know Megan was always listed here as Megan Joy Corkrey until she requested to drop the Corkrey, so I would have thought that Tatiana should be Tatiana Nicole? (Kyleofark (talk) 16:07, 16 May 2009 (UTC))
 * It's Tatiana Del Toro. Gage (talk) 19:55, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

American Idol 9
Hey guys. In a meeting with the Idol producers and 19 entertainment, a new format for the semi-finals was brought into the brainstorm of how to improve the show's success. Several ideas were tossed around and the producers are still up for suggestions but one format stood out for me. There would be a top 36 of equal gender firstly. The 3 groups of 12 would perform and after the votes are counted and verified the bottom 4 (2 females, 2 males) will be eliminated from each group leaving 8 contestants in each group. After each group performs again, the bottom 2 (1 male, 1 female) would be eliminated leaving 6 idols in each group. Then after each group has performed, the top 2 (1 male, 1 female)of each group would advance straight to the top 12. The first 6 slots of the top 12 would then be filled. The next highest male and female singer out of the 3 groups would then advance making a top 8. Now it is unlikely that Kara will be dropped after her first year so then with a top 8 formed there will be a wildcard show allowing contestants from the top 36 to perform again. Each judge would have their own pick thus forming the top 12.

Now I am very passionate about wikipedia as I think of it as the only reliable source of information that contains specific show-by-show information so I would appreciate it if people could sketch up elimination charts for this new format so I can see how they would look since I am not a fan of how the charts are used for seasons 4 - 7. Use contestants from past seasons i'm not bothered. Please post them on my wall or on this discussion page. Thanks. Frazzler9 (talk) 14:22, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Hey, I cant say I can help you with the table, but I would have thought itd have looked a bit like seasons 4-7s, because there the eliminated contestants in the semi finals were parts of different groups (males/females) but are eliminated in the same line. Eg, Alaina Whitaker and Robbie Carrico are both "eliminated" in the second bit of the table, but were in different groups. But what I wanted to ask was, where did you hear this info? I actually think i'd prefer it than this seasons one because, but I dont find it likely because they would be having 9 performance shows plus a wildcard one, which actually is way to many. I think your source is probably wrong, so I wouldnt worry about the tables for it. :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kyleofark (talk • contribs) 15:16, 17 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Well I was in the board room with the producers. Because of my exclusivity agreement I cannot go into full detail about my affiliation with 19 entertainment but this format is definitely being considered. The idea is that the show will start after Xmas or that it will end before xmas so the contestant could potentially grab the xmas no. 1.... Another idea is that the eliminated contestant sings a new song to fight for the judges save Frazzler9 (talk) 15:35, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I beg you. Please. Just shut up. Gage (talk) 00:22, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * If you have a problem with my comments then simply don't read them. Nothing you say really has an impact on my opinion or my life. You are pathetic... try getting some friends and a social life outside of wikipedia and internet forums. Case closed, don't reply to this.
 * No. Gage (talk) 05:48, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Right ok ;) (Kyleofark (talk) 16:18, 17 May 2009 (UTC))


 * Nothing like a good ol' American Idol hoax =)--Yolgnu (talk) 06:41, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Firstly, please try to be civil, everybody. "Just shut up" is certainly not civil. Secondly, this is NOT a message board or a discussion forum for American Idol. It's a discussion of this particular article. So honestly, none of this should even be here. Case closed. --User:Woohookitty Diamming fool! 07:12, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Danny Gokey btm 2
If the results for tpo 4 were announced in random order then that means that Danny Gokey definately wasn't the btm 2 coz then it wouldn't have been random so that means he was top 2 Frazzler9 (talk) 18:14, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

No, thats not true. The results were announced randomly, which means they were announced in a random order. This could in theory have meant they were completely muddled up, or it could have meant that Danny was actually second bottom, and the random draw left him being called third. For example, in the X Factor 5 (UK), the top 4 contestants were called in a random order, which following the show, was later shown to have actually been the order they came that week. Danny could have been top 2, or bottom 2 - all we can deduce from that week was that Allison recieved the lowest votes, and Danny, Kris and Adam were top 3 in some unknown order. (Kyleofark (talk) 19:12, 17 May 2009 (UTC))
 * Honestly, this is another message board type discussion since the article doesn't say that Danny wasn't bottom 2 that week. So there's no reason for it here. --User:Woohookitty Diamming fool! 07:13, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Bolded top 13 and changed judges save
I have bolded 'top 13' as it is a significant stage in the competition. Eliminations are also bolded. Wild card contestants who were originally eliminated arn't bolded as they were brought back. I have chnaged the judges save colour as it stands out more and isn't as similar to the male blue colour like it was before. I have also bolded it as it is significant Frazzler9 (talk) 13:48, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Completely distracts from the purpose of the chart. Stop making changes to make changes. The format in use now should stay, and any further changes should be thoroughly discussed before they are made. I've fought over many different additions that you have unnecesarilly added to the chart, and would very much enjoy it if you could stop vandalising this article with persisent, and disruptive edits regarding the series, as well as on the talk page. Gage (talk) 19:33, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * ok firstly... The change of the judges save colour I think is an acceptable change. The normal colour at the moment is too similar to the colour used for the male contestants. We bold eliminations why not bold the chart blocks that show which contestants have advanced to the top 13. We don't bold the wildcard contestants elimination in their semi-final heat because they weren't completely out of the competition. The 'top 13' blocks signify a significant event in the competition like eliminations... my edits arn't vandalism and I have given perfect reasoning to revert your edit Frazzler9 (talk) 16:27, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

This is my new idea for the chart. Maybe the bolding of the 'Top 13' chart blocks isn't that necessary but I do feel that advancing to the next stage in the competition is of significance as well as eliminations. The judges save colour now is more distinct. I think it should definately be bolded. The fact that no one was eliminated that week should be pointed out and it follows a trend of consistency as all eliminations have been bolded... Frazzler9 (talk) 16:39, 19 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I have to agree with GageSkidmore here. The bolding is unnecessary to the elimination table.  The bolding is only necessary for the final elimination/runner-up/winner to show the ultimate consequence of the show.  The bolding of the Top 13 puts undue weight saying that making the Top 13 is more important than any bottom 2/3 or semi-final eliminations.  The bolding in the save box is completely unnecessary since the box itself is a different color.  Now I do not have a real preference for the save color since I think either is different enough and acceptable.  For these reasons I am removing the boldfaced because there is no consensus here to include them.


 * In general, I think you need to heed the advice I have given you, 1) the BOLD, revert, discuss cycle about gaining a consensus when an edit you make has been reverted (in this case by two different editors) and 2) using a sandbox on your own user page to direct people there to any possible changes you think are necessary itself of continually adding elimination tables to this talk page that increases the page size unnecessarily. Aspects (talk) 16:54, 19 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah sorry, but I have to agree with Gage and Aspects. The changes just arent needed and its causing so much uneeded fuss. And furthermore, your making endless changes to the table, and as a result, the table just loses all consistancy with other series tables. I do however agree that the new judges save colour is more suitable, and stands out more. (Kyleofark (talk) 17:02, 19 May 2009 (UTC))


 * Since there seems to be a constant fight by Frizzler9 to change the Judges' Save color, I changed it to something of neither green nor blue in tint to prevent future concerns about it being too similar to another color on the chart. Gage (talk) 19:43, 19 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't like the new colour. I think that the use of the maroon colour seems to give off negative connotations about the save which is not how the show wish to protray it. The colour also makes the table look ugly. I'm reverting it back.. there's no problem with the colour it was before. Frazzler9 (talk) 20:33, 19 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I personally think the colour was fine. The blue-green colour your putting it as looks like the male blue, which was the reason why you wanted to change it anyway. I dont know what you mean by connotations - its a colour in a table, it gives off no connotations at all. (Kyleofark (talk) 21:44, 19 May 2009 (UTC))


 * I hate to play devil's advocate, but I do agree that using red is a bad idea as red does historically connotate negativity, which is certainly not the case here. How about just using the same yellow color thats used for elimination since he was basically eliminated anyway at least for a few moments. We can even put "Elim" in the box if you prefer, then the footnote explains the save. Just a suggestion. MarkMc1990 (talk) 01:28, 20 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I would support using the Elim yellow color, but not putting 'Elim' in the box. Gage (talk) 01:57, 20 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't think that the box should be labelled 'Elim' because the contestant was saved and not eliminated. If the box did say 'Elim' it shouldn't be bold as the bolding of Elim means that the contestant was permenately out of the competition which was not the case and was not the case with the wild card contenders. Red does connotate negativity so why doesn't the elim/btm2/btm 3 be different shades of red? I'll draw up a brief on this talk page Frazzler9 (talk) 16:11, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

I myself...all I want...is 7 seconds without a change in the Elimination Chart color scheme. Come on people. :) Pick a color scheme and stick with it. I don't care what the color scheme is...just pick one. --User:Woohookitty Diamming fool! 07:16, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Well it's definately interesting. I think there is more distinction between btm 3/btm 2/eliminated but im not sure whether the eliminated dark red is aesthetically pleasing. Maybe in a lighter shade? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Frazzler9 (talk • contribs) 16:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Simply stated, NO. Every previous season is the same, but you want to make it different for the sake of being different. And, since you have now created at least 6 sample tables on this page, you seriously need to read about creating your own Sandbox to play in, as already suggested above.  Please.  --Mtjaws (talk) 16:53, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Alright chill... I was just making a suggestion and I hadn't even made the edit... If you were asked 'what colours would you expect eliminated contestants to have?' you would probably say red. Frazzler9 (talk) 17:27, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * No, I would say, shut up, quit editing, and learn how to use Wikipedia. Gage (talk) 19:36, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * and I would say.. learn how to make some friends.... firstly I was just experimenting and the consistency issue with other idol articles wouldn't be a problem if all the articles were changed... I don't even like the red colouring anyway... now shut up u loser... Frazzler9 (talk) 15:56, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

A slightly more constructive chart suggestion =).
I'm not sure what all the insanity above this is about, but I propose having a distinct color for both the Winner and the Runner-Up. Looking back a few seasons, I've noticed that the Runner-Up is granted the same color as Eliminated contestants, but that is not accurate. The runner-up is not technically eliminated, and shouldn't have a color representative of such.

Ergo, I'm proposing orange, because it's separate from others on the chart, *but* close on the color spectrum to yellow (the Elim. color). This unique Winner/Runner-Up color ideal is practiced w/ Top Chef, Project Runway, and the like. I hope you all approve of it. I think it ties back to my former statements somewhere up north on this page (the Btm 3/2/Elim color debate).--Cinemaniac86Oy_gevalt. 17:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure another color helps any because the box does say "runner-up" in it, to distinguish it. And the runner-up is definitely eliminated. He'll have the least amount of votes, get eliminated, and finish in 2nd. The competition ends then, and he is eliminated from winning. Simple logic. --Mtjaws (talk) 17:42, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm with Mtjaws on this one. The runner-up is the final person eliminated from the competition and the color should be the same as all the other finalist eliminations. I'm all for continuing the use of limegreen for the winner box, but other than that PLEASE no more new colors on the chart, its already a bit of an eye sore as it is. lol. MarkMc1990 (talk) 19:01, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I also agree with Mtjaws, and have reverted the chart to its original version, without the runner up color in the legend. Gage (talk) 19:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)