Talk:American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers

Early Radio
"Radio stations originally only broadcast performers live, the performers working for free. Later, performers wanted to be paid and recorded performances became more prevalent."

This makes no sense. Some performers played for free at various times in exchange for advertising their upcoming live venue performances, but certainly plenty of early radio performers were paid. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.198.3.57 (talk) 17:28, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Karaoke
How can they POSSIBLY charge karaoke places to perform songs? Say I have a karaoke machine with 6000 songs. Does this machine submit which song is played back over the internet to a central server? I don't think so. This money they collect must be randomly distributed. If you are an obscure artist on a karaoke machine, you're not going to see much of it, if any, are you? 68.167.161.182 (talk) 01:38, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

ASCAP has been harassing a bar owner near me, regarding karaoke. Considering that most karaoke collections are already copyright nightmares (unauthorized covers performed by no-name bands), how can they justify threatening lawsuits? I do not understand how the original artist or the no-name performer could possibly receive any benefit from bars giving money to ASCAP. I'd be interested in seeing more information about this subject. 68.13.125.163 (talk) 03:55, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Awards
What is meant by the phrase, "ASCAP has an extensive awards program?" I know some of the awards listed aren't given by ASCAP. For instance, the Golden Globes are given by the Holywood Foreign Press and the NAACP Image Awards are, obviously handed out by the NAACP. Am I right about this list being off, or is there something I'm missing? --djrobgordon 06:11, 19 January 2006 (UTC)


 * In my opinion, "extensive" is an accurate description as it does not mean "all-inclusive." Also, the term was meant to refer to the number of music-related awards hosted by ASCAP, of which I think are many considering it is just one organization. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jabberwiki (talk • contribs).

Article name
As can be verified on the ASCAP website, there is no comma after "Authors" in the full name of the American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers. When I attempted to fix this, I found that the correct article title is used as a redirect to the wrong one. — Athaenara ✉ 00:39, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

( Request posted on Requested moves. — A. ✉ 01:05, 10 June 2007 (UTC) )

( Fixed by GTBacchus. — A. ✉ 08:48, 10 June 2007 (UTC) )

CMA/ASCAP award for Adventurous Programming
Can information about the CMA/ASCAP award for Adventurous Programming be added? 131.123.231.143 21:08, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

needs some discussion of anti-trust issues
ASCAP has long been controversial on antitrust grounds, as an organization dedicated to copyright pooling by ostensible competitors. They've been sued numerous times, and have lost some cases while winning others. An overview of this would be useful. A few references that specifically discuss ASCAP-related cases (as opposed to only the more general copyright-pooling issue): --Delirium 16:43, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Nimbit
Added info about Nimbit partnership. Included redlink because I'm in the process of writing the article now. ~ kevin  talk [mailto:kevinebaugh@gmail.com email] 17:43, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
 * All set, no one even SAW that redlink :) ~ kevin  talk [mailto:kevinebaugh@gmail.com email] 18:56, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

payments to artists?
How do they determine how much a composer should get? I would think "Blowing in the Wind" would be worth quite a bit more than some forgettable one-hit-wonder, but also that it would be dependent on the times. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.63.82.53 (talk) 12:47, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Copy-edit recommended
This article reads inconsistently. Of particular note: the Non-exclusive section is mostly written in the 2nd-person. ~E 74.60.29.141 (talk) 21:20, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Yes, this article needs to be rewritten. I found nothing about ASCAP's battles with BMI during the payola scandal era of the late 1950's and ASCAP finally realizing that rock was here to stay and try to attract more rock/R&B/country acts culminating with Motown joining ASCAP in 1971. Also, check out this source which seems to be the definitive ASCAP history book. . Steelbeard1 (talk) 13:22, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 11 one external links on American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20140512214544/http://www.ascap.com/about/history/1940s.html to http://www.ascap.com/about/history/1940s.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20140512215911/http://www.ascap.com/about/history/1960s.html to http://www.ascap.com/about/history/1960s.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20140512215913/http://www.ascap.com/about/history/1970s.html to http://www.ascap.com/about/history/1970s.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20140512221244/http://www.ascap.com/about/history/1980s.html to http://www.ascap.com/about/history/1980s.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20140512221704/http://www.ascap.com/about/history/1990s.html to http://www.ascap.com/about/history/1990s.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20121003192204/http://www.ascap.com/about/payment/whocollect.html to http://www.ascap.com/about/payment/whocollect.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20121003192216/http://www.ascap.com/about/affiliated.html to http://www.ascap.com/about/affiliated.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20121003192354/http://www.ascap.com/about/payment/ to http://www.ascap.com/about/payment/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20140428005111/http://www.ascap.com/eventsawards/awards/deems_taylor/index.html to http://www.ascap.com/eventsawards/awards/deems_taylor/index.html


 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20131104111912/http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G2-3468301604.html to http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G2-3468301604.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20120924105617/http://www.billboard.biz/bbbiz/search/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003986517 to http://www.billboard.biz/bbbiz/search/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003986517

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers. —cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 20:00, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Use after composer's name
In some concert booklet, a composer was announced as John Doe ASCAP. What does this mean? Wikispaghetti (talk) 20:48, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

400% rates increase - source?
I came to this article from Lawrence Lessig's TED talk. He mentions a more than 400% increase, and that's the only citation. It's not so reliable, as all he shows is a graph with no references. It's also the only source for the same claim in ASCAP boycott. I'll leave a message there as well. Y. Dongchen (talk) 10:52, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

Some update requests
✅
 * Specific text to be added or removed: Lead Section replace first paragraph
 * The American Society of Composers, Authors, and Publishers (ASCAP) is a United States not-for-profit performance-rights organization (PRO) that collectively licenses the public performance rights of its members' musical works to venues, broadcasters, and digital streaming services.


 * Reason for the change: A more modern description of the types of licensing covered
 * References supporting change:

Done
 * Specific text to be added or removed: Lead Section third paragraph replace text
 * In 2021, ASCAP collected over US$1.335 billion in revenue and distributed $1.254 billion in royalties to its members. ASCAP membership included over 850,000 songwriters, composers and music publishers, with over 16 million registered works.


 * Reason for the change: Updates 2019 data to 2021 data
 * References supporting change:

✅
 * Specific text to be added or removed: Non-exclusivity
 * Remove section


 * Reason for the change:  The passage is largely unsupported and the fact that a U.S. performing arts society does not cater to artists covered by societies in other countries is unremarkable. I suspect that the Creative Commons mention in this passage may have had current events relevance ten years ago. That event is covered in the Criticism section.


 * and I am pinging you because you have shown an interest in this topic ASCAP and you have made edits on my behalf (Thank You!). Would you be so kind as to take a look at the Non-exclusivity section?  It appears to be WP:SYNTHESIS, and if not, it appears to have too much prominence as the first section after the lead (Above the History section).  A citation that is missing from the section is here, A BILL OF RIGHTS FOR SONGWRITERS AND COMPOSERS.


 * Here is what I see when I read the section...


 * Unlike collecting societies outside the United States, ASCAP contract is non-exclusive and although it is not so simple for a foreign person to join ASCAP, it is possible. ASCAP has an office in the United Kingdom. As the artist agreement is non-exclusive, authors can license using a Creative Commons license. The ASCAP bill of rights states, "we have the right to choose when and where our creative works may be used for free". If an author is going to use a Creative Commons license with another's works, this is the only author's rights organisation that has a non-exclusive contract that a foreign person can join. If an author uses a Creative Commons license and is not a member of a performing rights organisation and the works would generate royalties, these royalties are collected and given to publishers and artists that are members of the se organisations. ASCAP is not a governing agency and as such has no right to fine and/or collect royalties on behalf of the artists that it allegedly represents.


 * Sorry to bother you, but moving, improving, or deleting this section would greatly improve the readability of the article imho. My vote would be to delete. Thank you for your efforts and edits. Apriltools (talk) 05:11, 3 June 2022 (UTC)


 * References supporting change:


 * Specific text to be added or removed: Boycott section remove unsupported sentence
 * Upon the conclusion of litigation between broadcasters and ASCAP in October 1941, ASCAP was legally required to settle for a lower fee than they had initially demanded.

Partly done: I dug up a copy of the source; it does say they settled, so I changed it to say that.
 * Reason for the change:  The cited source does not say this, it says the royalty fees were negotiated directly with the broadcasters and ASCAP.
 * References supporting change:

✅
 * Specific text to be added or removed:  Section Antitrust lawsuit
 * Rename section to Consent decree


 * Reason for the change:  Consent degree is the common vernacular for the legal framework for both ASCAP and BMI. These may have started with a lawsuit, but the DOJ recommended in 2021 that the decrees be reviewed every five years in light of changing technologies. 
 * References supporting change:

Thank you! Apriltools (talk) 03:34, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

Millard Fillmore
Given that Millard Fillmore died 40 years before the founding of ASCAP, it is hard to understand how he could have been one of the founders of the organization. Perhaps the name and the link to Millard Fillmore, the 13th President of the USA, were accidental and were intended to be for someone else. In case that might be true, I will leave it for someone else to correct, as I don't know what might have been intended. Mark C Carlson 16:47, 30 December 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Markccarlson (talk • contribs)

Edit request 2022 data

 * Specific text to be added or removed:
 * In the lead, third paragraph, please adjust the following.
 * In 2021, ASCAP collected over US$1.335 billion in revenue and distributed $1.254 billion in royalties to its members . ASCAP membership included over 850,000 songwriters, composers and music publishers, with having over 16 million registered works.


 * And add the following.
 * ASCAP membership surpassed 900,000 and revenues exceeded $1.5 billion in 2022.

Apriltools (talk) 20:09, 5 July 2023 (UTC) Apriltools (talk) 20:09, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Reason for the change: Updating 2022 published information
 * References supporting change:

Reply 5-JUL-2023
Regards, Spintendo  22:29, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * 1) The proposed lead section contains a sentence which is worded in a way as to suggest that the 1.254 billion in royalties is paid only to individual members having over 16 million registered works (e.g., "In 2021, ASCAP collected over US$1.335 billion in revenue and distributed $1.254 billion in royalties to its members having over 16 million registered works."). The provided reference does not confirm the statement as it is written.
 * 2) If this is in error, kindly rewrite the sentence and resubmit your proposal in a new edit request below this reply post.


 * Hi, the supporting reference(s) for the 2021 data is already in the article (number 3 and 4) so I did not repeat them in my edit request. Reworded, the finished paragraph request / edit would look like this...


 * In 2021, ASCAP collected over US$1.335 billion in revenue and distributed $1.254 billion in royalties to rights-holders, ASCAP maintains a registry of over 16 million works.34 ASCAP membership surpassed 900,000 and revenues exceeded $1.5 billion in 2022.5


 * Thanks for responding to this so promptly, I hope this clears things up. Apriltools (talk) 06:32, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
 * additional edit --> Apriltools (talk) 07:44, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

Edit request -- third attempt -- 2022 membership data

 * Specific text to be added or removed replaced in lead section, 3rd para :
 * In 2021, ASCAP collected over US$1.335 billion in revenue and distributed $1.254 billion in royalties to rights-holders, ASCAP maintains a registry of over 16 million works. ASCAP membership surpassed 900,000 and revenues exceeded $1.5 billion in 2022.


 * Reason for the change:
 * update year 2022 membership data


 * References supporting change:
 * all references included in passage above (shown below)

Apriltools (talk) 19:45, 9 September 2023 (UTC) Apriltools (talk) 19:45, 9 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi Apriltools, I hate to be a stickler for punctuation, but your proposed statement In 2021, ASCAP collected over US$1.335 billion in revenue and distributed $1.254 billion in royalties to rights-holders, ASCAP maintains a registry of over 16 million works. is a run-on sentence because there is a comma after the word rights-holders. Please rewrite the sentence so that it is grammatical. Regards, Spintendo  21:58, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

Edit request -- second attempt -- 2022 membership data

 * Specific text to be added or removed replaced in lead section, 3rd para :
 * In 2021, ASCAP collected over US$1.335 billion in revenue, distributed $1.254 billion in royalties to rights-holders, and maintained a registry of over 16 million works. ASCAP membership surpassed 900,000 and revenues exceeded $1.5 billion in 2022.


 * Reason for the change:
 * update year 2022 membership data


 * References supporting change:
 * all references included in passage above (shown below)

Apriltools (talk) 19:02, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

Reply 11-SEP-2023
Spintendo 21:23, 11 September 2023 (UTC)