Talk:Ameriflight

Accidents and incidents
The list of Accidents and Incidents for Ameriflight is woefully incomplete and (in my opinion) paints AMF's safety record in an unfairly optimistic manner.

I spent five years as a captain at AMF, ending in August of 1996, and can easily think of many PA-32, PA-31-350, Metro and BE-99 accidents and incidents (with more than a few single and dual fatalities) that are not listed under the "Accidents and Incidents" section.

My goal is not to badmouth AMF. Out of all the Part 135 cargo operators in the U.S., AMF was arguably the best (albeit with some seriously rocky periods where the FAA found serious fault with their maintenance procedures).

It seems only fair to *truly* represent the full safety record of ANY Part 135 operation. If accidents and incidents are going to be enumerated -- this list should be complete. To do so haphazardly and incompletely misrepresents the (often terrible) safety record of Part 135 cargo operations as a whole.

If we're going to talk about this publicly, it would be nice to *also* read about the huge volume of accidents related to inadequate maintenance, inadequate crew rest, and inadequate training.

If I can contribute, I'd be happy to cite the missing accidents and incidents -- and especially the missing *fatal* accidents that do not appear on the page. The pilots who died in these accidents deserve to be represented, as well as the NTSB determinations as to causal factors.

Simply Google "ameriflight fatal" if you think the list on this page is *anywhere* near complete.

Mkultra007 07:21, 11 July 2007 (UTC)


 * The only ones that I see missing are the PA-31 that hit Frasier Mountain because the pilot was below the MEA, the double-fatality in the Bay Area due to the controller error and the pilot's failure to maintain MEA, the BE1900 crash at SEA due to the pilot's failure to ensure proper CG. The only maintenance fatal that I'm aware of is the PA-31 prop hub failure, which was shown to be a manufacturing/design defect and led to a massive AD and redesign of the prop. As for the FAA incidents, yes, AMF was shut down for a 2 week period (1989?), but after that the maintenance procedures were drastically improved, and throughout the 1990s, though there were several NASIP inspections, the FAA was not able to find any significant maintenance defects in procedures or workmanship. Given the number of flight hours per year, the accident rate for AMF is actually one of the best in the industry. Bias disclosure: during the time that Mkultra007 was there, I was Director of Quality control, and worked at AMF from 1990 to 1999.  AK Radecki Speaketh  18:39, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

For a more comprehensive list...
http://www.aviationdb.com/Aviation/AidQuery.shtm

Select Ameriflight as the airline record to query, with no other constraints. It will only return the first 100 results. Also includes some pre-AMF (e.g., Cal Air Charter) data.

10 accidents where the aircraft was demolished (six fatalities, one injury)

10 accidents where the aircraft was substantially damaged (1 injury)

3 injury accidents (aircraft damaged)

77 other lesser accidents & incidents

There are fatalities missing from this list as well (PA-31 crash into Mt. Shasta as an example).

Citations Need Clean-Up
The "Accidents and Incidents" references in this article need some serious clean-up.

Nothing beyond reference 2 is cited in the references section.

Reference [3] cites a secondary source, presumably quoting the NTSB's determination. I modified this link to go directly to the NTSB web site.

Reference [4] (http://aviationsafety.net/database/record.php?id=20031129-1) leads to a generic page with no information about the crash whatsoever. Presumably, this is because the original URL has changed. Anyone got a better link to the reference?

Reference [5] (http://fl250.blogspot.com/2005/07/life-and-death-on-amf132.html) leads to a personal blog on BLOGSPOT.COM. This doesn't meet reliable source guidelines. If there are no objections, I will remove the "The pilot, who was the lone person aboard, was killed. The cause of the accident is believed to be the pilot falling asleep during the flight. [5]" information, unless it can be properly cited.

Full disclosure: I'm a former pilot for AMF. I have no interest whatsoever in protecting their image though. I just want to ensure that what is published on Wikipedia meets the content guidelines.

If I can find valid cites for any of the above, I'll add them without changing the content. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mkultra2 (talk • contribs) 06:38, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

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External links modified
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