Talk:Amka

spelling
The official spelling used by the Israel Central Bureau of Statistics does not use an apostrophe. - Gilgamesh 06:28, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I've moved it as requested. Please compare the move of 'Afula. Bishonen | talk 17:15, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Amqa and Amka need to be merged
Any objections?  T i a m u t  00:09, 4 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Two choices:

The Amka article is really just a slightly larger version of the Amqa article, so a merger could be a good idea. However, it is an independent Israeli locality today and merging it could be negatively received by other users especially by WikiProject Israel. In the case of the latter choice, we can recommend that the project expand the Amka article and until then we can expand the Amqa one. --Al Ameer son 01:18, 4 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I have no problem with putting off a merger if people are committed to expanding the respective articles. Happy editing!  T i a m u t  01:25, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

I for one, know I will I get to expanding the article ASAP. Cheers! --Al Ameer son 01:27, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Firstly; a lot of the articles about "depopulated" villages were started by user:BL (who has not been active since 2004). A lot of the information that he added has mysteriously disappeared, for Amka: see http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Amka&oldid=6456914 and compare that with todays version. SO: always check the history of these articles.. As to whether to merge the two articles or not: I tilt towards merging. Regards, Huldra (talk) 08:22, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.230.84.168 (talk) 00:11, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Merge with Amka
Since both these article are about the same location, they should be merged. Does this occur elsewhere on wikipedia, that the same location has two articles? Al Quds redirects to Jerusalem. Wikipedia is not a memorial!? Chesdovi (talk) 13:48, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, unless you think people like Benny Morris are doing "memorials" (!) ...this isn´t a "memorial. It is called: history. And I wonder where you have been, if you have not noticed that the same location can have had different communities over time? Regards, Huldra (talk) 15:18, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I could understand if this village was indeed history, if it was a abandoned ruin. But it is not. It is currently being lived in. That's why I can't understand why there are two separate articles! One article is a memorial to its previous community. This can be better named Arab community of Amqa, similar to Przedecz (Jewish community) - a history of the towns population. This article is about a location. Why is there a second one, Amka, about the same place?! Chesdovi (talk) 19:11, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Ethnical cleansing in Amqa
Why were the Druze spared the ethnic cleansing process? Chesdovi (talk) 13:51, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Standard procedure. Druze and Arab Christians were normally not evicted. (There were exceptions: e.g. The IDF did not want Arabs along the Lebanese border ..so all Arab villagers (like Christian villages of  Kafr Bir'im and Iqrit)  were cleansed. Eh, and Chesdovi: why not, like, read a little bit about the events in 1948 before you start editing these articles?? Just a suggestion ;-P   Regards, Huldra (talk) 15:31, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Why was it standard. What distinguished the Muslims from the rest? Chesdovi (talk) 19:04, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Because it's all baseless lies. They fled out of their own free will, no one forced them to. TFighterPilot (talk) 13:59, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Gotta agree with Tfighter here. This whole "expulsion" crap is a myth. 65.92.161.76 (talk) 01:56, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Guerin
Galillee II, p. 23, Google translation: "Planted with fig and olive trees, they are separated by hedges of cactus and giant cover the slopes of an isolated hill, crowned by the village of name, whose population is entirely Muslim. It contains many cisterns dug into the rock. We also see the location an ancient building which is said to have been a church, that seems to confirm its direction from west to east. Several columns and a large number of beautiful stone have been extracted from it. A'mka reproduces exactly the name of a city mentioned in the Bible as the limits of the tribe of Asher, and called in Hebrew Beth E'mek or Beth ha-E'mek, in Greek ..., in Latin Bethemec." Zerotalk 14:15, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

present absentees
Apparently a few hundred expelled villagers remained in Israel. Needs a good source. Zerotalk 14:30, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

May I Please Edit this Article With Alternative Reliable Source?
http://www.history.ac.uk/reviews/review/219

The War for Palestine: Rewriting the History of 1948 Book: The War for Palestine Rewriting the History of 1948 edited by Eugene Rogan, Avi Shlaim Cambridge, Cambridge University Press, 2001, ISBN: 9780521794765; 249pp.

Introduction

((Copyright violation deleted. Zerotalk 10:08, 28 August 2011 (UTC)))) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.92.27.173 (talk) 17:03, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

May I Please Edit this Article With Alternative Reliable Source?
http://www.history.ac.uk/reviews/review/219

The War for Palestine: Rewriting the History of 1948 Book: The War for Palestine Rewriting the History of 1948 edited by Eugene Rogan, Avi Shlaim Cambridge, Cambridge University Press, 2001, ISBN: 9780521794765; 65.92.27.173 (talk) 17:08, 27 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Of course you can add an additional WP:RS, if it mentions Amka. However, please do not remove info already in the article, based on  Reliable Source. Cheers, Huldra (talk) 02:47, 28 July 2011 (UTC)


 * This does not look good. You remove information, based on WP:RS, without discussion, and without specifying other sources. (No....quoting one general book, is NOT citing). This will not stand.  Please reverse ASAP. Cheers, Huldra (talk) 02:56, 28 July 2011 (UTC)


 * "What do these chapters contain and what to they add to our understanding of the debate around the formation of Israel? In the two chapters on the origins of the Palestinian refugee crisis, Parsons disagrees with Morris's findings that the refugee crisis 'was born of war, not by design, Jewish or Arab.'


 * Rather, in a stimulating case study, Parsons looks at the interchange between the Israeli army (the IDF) and the Druze community in Galilee during the IDF's conquest of the region. For Parsons, Israeli policy towards the Druze helps us to understand the wider picture of Israeli policy towards the Palestinians. She attacks the argument that Israel's expulsions of Palestinians were essentially random and based on local factors and the actions of subordinate IDF commanders by showing how the IDF (which contained some Druze troops) left Druze villages unmolested, even when they had been fired on from these villages.


 * For Parsons, the actions of the IDF in sparing the Druze show the grand design in an Israeli policy that would target one community perceived as a threat (the Palestinians) and leave alone another seen as a potential ally (the Druze) even when the former were pacific and the latter bellicose towards the IDF. Parsons also claims (p.67) that Morris made two errors in his earlier The birth of the Palestinian refugee problem 1947-49 (1987): firstly, some Druze did fire on IDF - and lived to tell the tale; secondly, villagers from 'Amqa, expelled by the IDF, were not, as Morris claimed, Druze, but, in fact, Muslims, thus confirming Parsons' thesis that the IDF acted within a carefully structured plan in the 1948 war to drive out only the Palestinians so as to make a viable Zionist state (p.68): 'If you have a policy not to do something it implies that you also have a position on what you are doing.' The second part of Parsons' chapter moves the emphasis from the history itself to the writing of the history. In line with the 'rewriting history' theme detailed by the editors in the introduction, she claims that Israeli historiography and perceptions of the Druze were consciously skewed to create a common past to prove a Jewish-Druze friendship. This 'invention of tradition' has, of course, its own logic as if people are told they have a bond with another group this can well become a reality regardless of historical truth." 65.92.27.173 (talk) 03:01, 28 July 2011 (UTC)


 * How, pray tell, would you like me to "cite" that specific reference to 'amqa? 65.92.27.173 (talk) 03:04, 28 July 2011 (UTC)


 * First: this article is obviously under "Arab-Israeli Arbitration Enforcement", so I have added the tag (not all articles under "Arab-Israeli Arbitration Enforcement" have yet been tagged, unfortunately).  Now, you have  broken 1RR by removing the same information twice:  and . Please self-revert before we continue the discussion. Cheers, Huldra (talk) 03:08, 28 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Self-reverted. Now let's please proceed to improve the article with additional sources as suggested. 65.92.27.173 (talk) 03:22, 28 July 2011 (UTC)


 * How do you propose to proceed? 65.92.27.173 (talk) 03:23, 28 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Ok, thank you for self-reverting. Now, to proceed: there is nothing in your new source, is there, that contradicts the info from Khalidi, namely that Jewish Amka was build on the land of The Palestinian Arab Amqa? In other words: I see no reason to take Khalidi out.
 * What seems to be the issue, is the history of the Druze in the area.  Also, the 2001 book you cite has  discussion about the *first* edition of Morris (1987) ...I do not have a copy, it is outdated, I have the "revisited"  2.nd edition (which is cited in the Amqa-article., and which we all use).  I believe  Morris countered his critics in the 2.nd edition...I have just checked, and  Morris does *not* claim in the 2.nd edition that the people expelled from Amqa were  Druze. If he did that in the 1987 edition, it seems that by 2004 he agreed with Parson on that particular issue.
 * What from the 2001 book did you want to add, and where? If it is about 1948, should it not be added to the Amqa-article (as that village existed in 1948) ...and not to the Amka-article (as that place was created in 1949?) Ok, this just for  a start.  Cheers Huldra (talk) 03:45, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * "Parsons disagrees with Morris's findings that the refugee crisis 'was born of war, not by design, Jewish or Arab.'"
 * "Depopulation" is not an act born out of war. It is born by design.
 * This aspect MUST BE CLARIFIED, because as the article, (and the entire family of articles,) so clearly implies that these "depopulations" were not simple casualties of an unfortunate war, but rather a meticulous effort on the part of Jews to "Ethnically Cleanse" Israel of its Palestinian population.
 * This lie will not stand. WrentchTosser (talk) 05:45, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Both sources should be allowed. They both offer distinct perspectives on a clearly controversial issue.
 * The references to any calculated "depopulation" are obviously not shared by all the cited historians.

Book of Rogan
Whoever is inserting the book of Rogan apparently has not actually looked at it. For a start, the part of the book that mentions the Arab village was not written by Eugene Rogan but by Leila Parsons. More importantly, the text entirely agrees with the statement that is being moved (except that it fails to mention land ownership). It does not mention the post-1948 village at all. The only thing that Parsons disagrees with is a 1987 error of Morris that the villagers were Druze, which Morris has long since corrected. So there is no case for including it here. Zerotalk 23:20, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Apparently Haaretz, 28 July 1972 discusses the fate of the Arab village. I didn't see it. Zerotalk 23:34, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Amqa/Amka
As far as I can, Morris (pages xx and 376) spells both the before-village and the after-village as "Amqa". I don't see what this dispute is about. Zerotalk 12:11, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
 * opsh, you are right, actually. The problem is that on wikipedia the "new" village has an article named called Amka -if we write Amqa it is directed to this article. Huldra (talk) 12:59, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Amqa should be merged into Amka. Same as Akka/Acre/Acco/Akko or Tabriya/Tiberias or Jish/Gush-Halav.Greyshark09 (talk) 19:54, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't object to that, especially as the new location has very little information. Zerotalk 23:08, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm making it an official merging proposal.Greyshark09 (talk) 16:47, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Older history
Seems Amqa featured in wars between the Hittites and the Egyptians in the 14th century BC. But sorting it all out seems hard. Cambridge Ancient History series. Zerotalk 23:29, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Merge proposal
Please share your opinion whether Keep or Merge regarding this article, whether to merge it ('Amqa') into the previously created article of Amka. Per discussion above, it is certain we are speaking of different prenounsation of the same place name in the Galilee - Amka/Amqa/Amca, the same as Acre/Acco/Akko; Tverya/Tiberias/Tabariyya and other, who all are described within the scope of one single article, covering all different time periods.Greyshark09 (talk) 16:59, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Merge in accordance with my overall belief that most articles in Israel about the same place should be merged. There is no WP:SIZE issue here. --Sreifa (talk) 09:14, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Merge. It isn't without problems, but it seems the most logical way. Zerotalk 09:50, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Merge. In principle all similar articles about Jewish villages that directly replaced Arab villages should be merged. This is one of the more clear-cut cases, where it's the same place having the same name. —Ynhockey (Talk) 19:35, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Merge procedure
I have completed the merge, the article now needs citation improvement.Greyshark09 (talk) 21:06, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Ethnic Cleansing
I don't understand why ZERO is reverting my edits referring to ethnic cleansing. Why else would Jews be depopulating Palestinian villages? What other point would there be to it other than ethnic cleansing? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.89.243.149 (talk) 07:31, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Trolls not welcome. Zerotalk 10:29, 28 September 2011 (UTC)