Talk:Amman/Archive 1

Greek
The Greek spelling Φιλαδελφια was given, but I've temporarily removed it. This is because I really think the spelling was Φιλαδελφεια, but can't quite confirm that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Josh Grosse (talk • contribs) 21:57, 13 October 2004 (UTC)

LA BANDERA REAL POSEE UNA ESTRELLA DE 8 PUNTAS EN EL TRIANGULO CENTRAL.++++ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.192.23.21 (talk) 21:31, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

History
My sources claim that the Circassians settled in the area in AD 1878 rather than AD 1887. Can someone please confirm or deny this? - Cybjorg 16:13, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

Image:Ammanscape.jpg
This photo got a caption saying "Jabal Abdoun" but Abdoun is a place which is in the Jabal Amman area. -- Omernos 05:59, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi. I took this image. I changed the caption to just Abdoun if that makes more sense. When I lived in Amman, I used to know this part of town as Jabal Abdoun, I don't think it was its formal name though. It's interesting that Abdoun is classified as being part of Jabal Amman, as Abdoun stands on its own hill, and is separated from Jabal Amman by a deep wadi. Nick Fraser 06:32, 9 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Hello Nick, it's a great photo. I am from Jordan and I loved this photo. I wanted a proper caption to it! :D -- Well, yeah people often think Abdoun is a whole different place or on it's own but it's actually part of Jabal Amman. Jabal Amman is such a great place, very nice and classy! And it views almost the oldest heritage or Amman and Royalty! -- Omernos


 * While it is correct that Abdoun is contained within the neighbourhood of Jabal Amman, Jabal Abdoun is indeed a hill separate from that of Jabal Amman. Jamshyd 02:38, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Tourism
I can't change the tourism section, it is vandalized —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dunamasri (talk • contribs) 20:06, 12 December 2006

"lone, deranged"?
seems to be a little editorialistic. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.215.216.32 (talk) 17:21, 26 January 2007 (UTC).

Average Temp.
How is the average high temp for the year higher than the average high temp for any individual month? Obviously there is an error in this somewhere. Can anyone find the correct averages and edit this page with a correction? 98.207.248.160 (talk) 05:29, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

The whole weather section is false. The current temperature there is higher than the stated record temp for this month. And this is not a record-breaking day. Also, record high temperature in January is 12.3c, average is 3c? No way, Amman is a warm city. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.250.159.105 (talk) 23:43, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

The climate (weather) section is correct with regards to certain elevations (altitudes). Currently, there are no record temperatures listed for Amman in this page. Amman is a warm city in Summer, not so much in Winter. The temperatures as stated in the page vary due to elevation. The average temperature in "Al-Jubaiha" and other areas at 1000 meters elevation in the day is 7-9 degrees Celsius, while it is 1-3 degrees Celsius at night. MQ1993 (talk) 12:32, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

the merge
i don't think it's a good idea for merage it, but can you tell me why we have to merage it ? --O.waqfi (talk) 23:05, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

The 7 pronged star in the flag
Hi, I removed the following "It sits atop seven hills, which are represented by the seven pronged star depicted on the Jordanian flag." because the 7 pronged star refers to the seven verses of the first surah in the Qur'an, and it says so here Jordanian flag. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.238.131.55 (talk) 15:58, 22 September 2009

Flag/Seal of Amman
Why should GAM's flag be considered Amman's flag? If it doesn't matter, then why do I never see the green flag hanging on poles anymore? Instead they put a so called Seal on the poles, when a flag is supposed to be there. Amman has no flag, it is just a GAM logo. Can somebody please talk back, to see if they should be removed and not considered as Amman's Flag and Seal? Thank you. Spaza-bozo (talk) 18:46, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

confusion here: "until 1948, and 1967, when"
"Amman remained a small city until 1948, and 1967, when the population expanded considerably due to an influx of Palestinian refugees from what is now Israel."

There seems to be a section / phrase missing somewhere in this sentence. Any idea what should be in the sentence to make sense ?

Kgrad (talk) 03:16, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

I see what you mean. Maybe it is better to be written like so: "Amman used to be a rather small city, but due to the high numbers of Palestinian refugees coming in during 1948 and 1967 the city increased in size." The previous sentence made it seem rather wrong in a way. Spaza-bozo (talk) 17:55, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Geo Coordinates
Are wrong —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.186.64.225 (talk) 09:38, 1 May 2010

Population
The population of the Greater Amman Municipality area is 5.1 million people. REF: Can whoever keeps changing it to 1 million stop? I don't understand why they keep doing that. Cheers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by RickHindi (talk • contribs) 23:38, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

"First Civilization on record" ?
Is this statement authentic and approved by archaeologists? why is the date different from the one mentioned on the site http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27Ain_Ghazal ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.147.64.48 (talk) 19:20, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Economy
The Information Technology section under the Economy is full of unverified claims. It claims that "some California-based VC firm" rates Amman as top 10 tech places in the world, surpassing Tel Aviv and Dubai. First, Tel Aviv (and Israel as a whole) IT sector only GDB is 75% that of Jordan's entire economy. Please do not write such unverified claims/lies. It also claims that 75% of Arabic content comes from Jordan (no cited source) and it claims that it is often-referred to as the "Silicon Valley of the region" (did you people really forget Dubai and Tel Aviv area light years ahead of Amman)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nayefc (talk • contribs) 20:46, 13 May 2013 (UTC)



Amman's "world city" ranking
In the article, it states that "Amman is also ranked a Gamma global city on the World City Index." I wanted a bit more onformation on what that actually meant, so I followed the link to the global cities page and discovered that since 2012, Amman has been bumped up to a "Beta–" rank city. This needs to be updated.

35.40.116.67 (talk) 00:01, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

Merger proposal
I propose that Rabbah be merged into Amman. Other than their backgrounds, the two cities are actually one and the same, it was almost like a simple name change. I also suggest a soft redirect of Philadelphia (Decapolis) to this article, for the same reason. Kj plma (talk) 03:42, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Timeline of Amman
What is missing from the recently created city timeline article? Please add relevant content. Contributions welcome. Thank you. -- M2545 (talk) 14:50, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Use of "homonymous" in opening PP
I really think eponymous is a better word here, but I need to know whether the governate is named for the city or the opposite. CM (talk) 15:39, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

Amman article reshaped
What do you think about all the edits I have made? --Makeandtoss (talk) 00:32, 5 August 2015 (UTC)


 * A few things: firstly, a minor point - the 'notable people' section is completely unnecessary in my opinion and should probably be removed. As for the content, I can already see a problematic copyvio in the etymology section:

"However the Macedonian ruler of Egypt, renamed it Philadelphia (Ancient Greek Φιλαδέλφεια) for brotherly love, by Ptolemy II Philadelphus, who reigned from 283 to 246 BC and occupied and rebuilt the city. He was supposedly given the nickname of Philadelphus, so it was named Philadelphia after him."
 * The sources says: "Th ancient Semetic name of Amman was first changed to Philadelphia, Greek for brotherly love, by Ptolemy the Second, who reigned from 283 to 246 B.C. and occupied and rebuilt the city. He was supposedly given the nickname of Philadelphus, so it was named Phildelphia after him."


 * I'm not sure how much (or if) some of the other content has been copy-pasted, but I would advise you to clean up the sections where you did not bother paraphrasing. Also, the 'districts' sub-section should be moved from demographics into the local government section and be expounded upon if possible. I notice that you did do a lot of good work in improving the history section, and certainly helped out in referencing a lot of content. However, I think the article could still improve its referencing in some sections, particularly in the geography section. Elspamo4 (talk) 13:34, 18 August 2015 (UTC)


 * A lot of cities have that section, so I thought why not.. I will try to paraphrase that section, but I think I did paraphrase the rest. Thank you for your feedback. Makeandtoss (talk) 22:48, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

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750-1516

 * I've merged the section "Abbasid to Ottoman period" to the neighboring sections. The section was unnecessary, redundant and awfully (but unsurprisingly) short. It was essentially a 2-sentence section about Amman's lack of history between the Umayyads and the Ottomans. Anything about the Circassian resettlement belongs in the Ottoman era section, while the 8th-century earthquake could be merged with the Umayyad period (it may have happened a few years after the Umayyads were overthrown but that's not enough to warrant a completely new section). These are the kind of unecessary stub sections that are frowned upon in GA, A-class and FA reviews. If a decent amount of content could be found to fill in this gap, then I see no problem with having a separate section, but that is not the case currently.
 * Any tour guides still being used for the History section should be removed or replaced by now. Their reliability or credibility is dubious when it comes to historical matters and it is clear there are plenty of reliable, alternative sources.
 * There's no need for all of those quotes within the citations. The information they're citing is not disputed and is not controversial, so the quotes are unnecessary and even distracting. --Al Ameer (talk) 21:51, 25 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Tell me if I missed something? Makeandtoss (talk) 22:31, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

-- Folks, "awfully short" or otherwise means nothing, that's aesthetics, here we're talking history, a huge time span that covers some 750 (!) years, and is essential in understanding Amman. Even the 15th c. mention is NOT Ottoman by a full century. You cannot do that. I suppose you don't like the fact that Amman was no more for so long, but that's neither here nor there, this is not some beauty or athletic contest, it's history, facts, an encyclopedia! Besides, there are remains at the Citadel who look Crusader and/or Ayyubid. Rather than removing valid edits already done by others = me :-) better go ahead and research this medieval episode, which is missing so far altogether. Please remember: history, especially remote periods, should have nothing to do with one's pride, ideology, etc., and anyhow all that MUST not interfere with relating history, which is facts, not emotions. The Circassians are of course part of the [late] Ottoman period, no doubt.Arminden (talk) 13:30, 26 December 2015 (UTC)ArmindenArminden (talk) 13:30, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

This paper claims evidence of lime kilns from the Fatmid and Abbasid periods. I won't edit here, so feel free. Zerotalk 13:56, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

Great! Thanks Zero. Kilns by themselves are no proof for sedentary settlement, but are an addition. So are the Crusader/Ayyubid walls and/or towers at the Citadel - maybe a short episode during the Crusades, maybe more. That's worth the effort. Aesthetic castlings with existing article material is not. The best proof that this paragraph is not redundant and that people mistake history for the World Cup or the Guinness Book, is that story about Amman being among the oldest continuously inhabited cities of the world. Take out this 750-1516 paragraph again, and that fantasy shows up again as well. The Middle East is full of cities older than most other cities elsewhere, Amman is certainly among the oldest, but "continuity" is a 19th-century fixation on fictitious "eternal nations".Arminden (talk) 14:12, 26 December 2015 (UTC)ArmindenArminden (talk) 14:12, 26 December 2015 (UTC)
 * What are you talking about? I don't care one iota that Amman lacked a history of habitation for roughly a millenium. If I did care, which would be silly, wouldn't I be in favor of the additional section? Please refrain from stating your false assumptions regarding my editing. Besides it being untrue, it only serves to create a hostile and distracting editing environment when this should be a civil and productive discussion.
 * As for your dismissal of my reasoning above, it's not simply about aesthetics or the section being too short, it's that it lacked substance. You have two sentences that would be more useful as context for the larger, neighboring sections than as a separate section in between the Umayyad and Ottoman periods. Even if the gap is 1,000 years, it's a 1,000 years of nothing so why should there be a separate section? It's a common sense edit, nothing more, nothing less. However, as I said above, if more info could be found about this long period of time, that changes things. I'd like to thank for the info above, but this still isn't enough for a badly-named section called "Abbasid to Ottoman period". Instead, it should be merged with the "Umayyad rule", which in turn should be renamed to "Middle Ages" or "Early Islamic era". --Al Ameer (talk) 18:21, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, thought I managed to find SOME reason for your edits and be friendly, not the opposite. It's your literal comment ("awfully short"), not my far-fetched interpretation. If it's factually wrong, it is not acceptable, period. Abbasid, Fatimid, Crusader, Ayyubid IS NOT OTTOMAN, no matter how short the event. A Jordanian is not "a bit Saudi" because Saudi Arabia is nearby and larger anyway, either. So NO, you cannot make those changes and be logical & accurate at the same time. If you don't care about being logical & accurate, then I won't stay in your way, that would make no sense & life is too short. Umayyad is not "Middle Ages", in the Middle East that term is seldom used at all and often it's reserved for the European intrusion = Crusades. Nor is it identical with "Early Islamic era", that would leave out the Abbasids and Fatimids. Nor can you actually combine those three, since the Ayyubids had a very significant input, while the Abbasids and Fatimids can hardly be discerned by archaeologists. So no, none of your options are reasonable, sorry. Other options you can change to: Abbasid to Mamluk period [bad, no Mamluks are even mentioned here, AND mixes Early Islamic with Crusader and Middle Isl.]; Abbasid to Ayyubid period [bad, lets the Mamluks disappear from history, etc., etc.]; and so on. There seems to be a WP rule which is very much also a common sense one: if it's not WRONG, leave it alone. As it is now, it's certainly not WRONG, while all other options are wrong. Voila. I'm out, do as you like. Arminden (talk) 18:38, 26 December 2015 (UTC)ArmindenArminden (talk) 18:38, 26 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Arminden, you have hinted five times that my editing is biased. It is not. I don't give a flying f if Amman has a 1000 years period of no history. Now, care to expand that section you are trying to stuff here? Because in its current length, it is not enough...Makeandtoss (talk) 23:45, 26 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree with User:Al Ameer son. Merging sections and naming them 'Early Islamic Rule' per WP:BODY. Makeandtoss (talk) 21:23, 27 December 2015 (UTC)
 * We could also use "Medieval period" as an alternative, but that might have the same issue as "Middle Ages", in that it is perhaps Euro-centric (I have often seen that term being used to describe that era in Islamic history though). In any case "Abbasid to Ottoman period" is not a good option at all; it's an odd title and I don't see a need to mention the Ottomans twice in section headings. Also, most of the information in the section is rather speculative as to which state or dynasty is credited with the various constructions around the citadel. And just for the record, I never said the Ayyubids, Abbasids, etc were part of the Ottoman era, my comment was about the original two sentences that only mentioned that the Circassians resettled the city in 1878 after a period of a millennium-long abandonment/occasional seasonal usage by Bedouin. And again it wasn't just that it was awfully short (2 sentences), it was that it lacked the substance to form its own section (it was better off as a contextual introductory sentence for the Ottoman era section). --Al Ameer (talk) 05:44, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 07:37, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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Population Figures
The populations figure given here (in the infobox and the lede) for the city of Amman are suspiciously close (a few hundred people out of four million) to the population figures for the governorate of Amman. On the other hand, in the article for the country of Jordan, the city of Amman is given a population of 1.1 million. Something is wrong here. Can someone who is familiar with the material/sources figure this out and fix it? LacrimosaDiesIlla (talk) 15:30, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Indeed I have previously thought about this.. In Jordanian media and mayoral statements, when they refer to Amman, they treat Amman as a city the size of a governorate. Its very very confusing, and its been a such a common practice that I am completely connvinced with that notion. The lack of sources diffrrentiating and explaining has worsened the issue. --Makeandtoss (talk) 21:16, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Okay, well, this source (which is the one given for the figures on largest cities on the page for the country of Jordan) has 4.1 million people for the governorate of Amman and 1.8 million for the city of Amman. Is there any reason why can't we use this and update the figures in this article accordingly? LacrimosaDiesIlla (talk) 12:21, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
 * The sources uses the 2015 census as reference. The census makes no distinction between the city and the governorate. Makeandtoss (talk) 12:59, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

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Untitled
'''This article reads in many places more like a tourist advertisement for Amman rather than an accurate article. For example, increasingly talking about how 'westernised' the city is (by what measure?) and its culinary scene as somehow outstanding? There is a massive degree of bias here which is very unhelpful''' — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.111.185.41 (talk) 14:19, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

Refounding of Amman - two sources
Two excellent sources on the re-founding of Amman
 * Vladimir Hamed-Troyansky, November 2017, pp. 605-623, CIRCASSIAN REFUGEES AND THE MAKING OF AMMAN, 1878–1914, DOI: https://doi.org/10.1017/S0020743817000617
 * ROGAN, Eugene L. The Making of a Capital: Amman, 1918-1928 In: Amman: Ville et société [online]. Beyrouth: Presses de l’Ifpo, 1996, http://books.openedition.org/ifpo/8228 ISBN: 9782351594650. DOI: https://doi.org/10.4000/books.ifpo.8228.

Onceinawhile (talk) 06:35, 15 April 2020 (UTC)